Mispelled Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 What does the "recently added" bit have to do with it? The supposed need for a top-6 player trade is older than the decade is, hence the BOLD MOVES debacle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 The Canucks need to rebuild. We need to ship guys off to get assets for them . This core is done. Luongo is going to demand a trade and the Sedins cant win us a cup or even act like 80 point guys anymore. Sometimes in life things are worth waiting for .Dont worry Nuck fans, the team will still be here and we will still be here when the next cycle starts to contend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 You want to talk about did we have the assets. Yes we did. We had Cory Schnieder. That was our biggest asset and when the plan was to "win now" what did Gillis do he mismanged the F out of that situation. We could have gotten a ransom for Cory but then he held on for too long then it switched to having to move Luongo. - He didn't trade Cory when his value was sky high and everybody was waiting for that trade to happen - Then tried to move Luongo and failed to do so - When he finally traded Cory he traded him for an asset in the future instead of getting someone to help the team right away. Don't tell me we didn't have the assets to make the moves. Pray tell, what 'ransom' did you know about that Gillis could have traded Cory for? I never heard of any rumoured deal significant enough to pull the trigger on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 What does the "recently added" bit have to do with it? The supposed need for a top-6 player trade is older than the decade is, hence the BOLD MOVES debacle! That's a span of nearly two years mispelled. "Recently added" if you need it clarified - those are the deals for top 6 forwards - since the Nash deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ding-Dong Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 And what of these other prospects playing right now who are also not ready? They're good to go. Why? Because some GMs simply don't care about player development. Let's take a look at Doug MacLean (A GM who had no problems throwing his star prospects right in to the NHL before they're ready) and his drafting record in the first round during his time in Columbus. 2000 - Rostislav Kesla - Drafted 4th Overall 2001 - Pascal Leclaire - 8th Overall 2002 - Rick Nash - 1st Overall 2003 - Nikolay Zherdev - 4th Overall 2004 - Alexandre Picard - 8th Overall 2005 - Gilbert Brule - 6th Overall 2006 - Derrick Brassard - 6th Overall 7 Picks in the top 10 for 7 straight years. The only one that panned out to expectations was Rick Nash. I guess it's kind of hard to screw up the #1 overall pick. But what about the 4th? 6th? 8th? You can argue he is just really bad at drafting. You can argue that the players didn't live up to their end of the deal. Or you can take a look at how highly projected and talked about each and every single one of those players were and where they ended up due to poor management. There's a reason why Doug MacLean is still not back in the NHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 one thing that has gotten me hearing gillis on the radio is that he keeps saying the team was slow to adapting the new style in the nhl. I for one don't see the blackhawks or the penguins really changing their style and they are still successful. Gillis is stuck thinking the reason why we can't score is that the style of play is the reason why we can't score. This style of collapsing around the net was brought in by Carolina and has been around a long time. We used to be a team that had speed skill and puck possession. We played to agitate with arrogance and a real physical style. Now we don't have any of it. Im also sad to see that Gillis follow instead of innovate. Where would the seahawks be if they followed the typical personnel that plays each position aka russell wilson. I just hope Gillis can clear his head and figure out what a team needs to be in order to win the stanley cup and then go and build it, instead of thinking about how to follow and adapt to whatever successful styles are out there. Gillis has gone back and forth and you can easily see the result in the current edition of the vancouver canucks Puck possession... I don't see Detroit dump and chase every shift... the Canucks however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 You want to talk about did we have the assets. Yes we did. We had Cory Schnieder. That was our biggest asset and when the plan was to "win now" what did Gillis do he mismanged the F out of that situation. We could have gotten a ransom for Cory but then he held on for too long then it switched to having to move Luongo. - He didn't trade Cory when his value was sky high and everybody was waiting for that trade to happen - Then tried to move Luongo and failed to do so - When he finally traded Cory he traded him for an asset in the future instead of getting someone to help the team right away. Don't tell me we didn't have the assets to make the moves. Goalies never have and never will get that much in trade. So no. Also, by that point the decision had already been made that the focus had shifted from "win now at all costs" to "stay competitive while re-tooling for the future/retaining young assets". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon4401 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Yeah Gillis sure seems to hit home runs with this doesn't he? Love how Booth came in here and tore it up for the past few years He was and is still doing far better then Sturm or Samuelson...Was a low risk high reward trade and up till he started getting injured looked pretty good...Is looking good again just gets to get some into the back of the net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rampage Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Pray tell, what 'ransom' did you know about that Gillis could have traded Cory for? I never heard of any rumoured deal significant enough to pull the trigger on. Do you really think 9th overall was the best deal the Canucks were offered for Schnieder? I'm going all the way back to the year of 2010-2011. You really think that was the best offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 so if you don't like people discussing things and expressing their opinions, why do you come to a discussion board? Here, here stawns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfruits Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Do you really think 9th overall was the best deal the Canucks were offered for Schnieder? I'm going all the way back to the year of 2010-2011. You really think that was the best offer? please look up recent goalie trades with similar value to Schneider and try and tell everyone here with a straight face that Gillis somehow got fleeced oh but your talking about trading him before he proved himself in the NHL with less experience meaning less trade value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 And what of these other prospects playing right now who are also not ready? They're good to go. Why? Which prospects specifically are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon4401 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Do you really think 9th overall was the best deal the Canucks were offered for Schnieder? I'm going all the way back to the year of 2010-2011. You really think that was the best offer? Maybe we could of gotten a 2nd round pick also but 9th overall is pretty good return on a goalie these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Which prospects specifically are you referring to? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfruits Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Maybe we could of gotten a 2nd round pick also but 9th overall is pretty good return on a goalie these days exactly recent goalie trades had a 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick or a mid level prospect i'm surprised Gillis even got a 9th overall pick considering everyone in the NHL knew he had to move a goalie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Maybe we could of gotten a 2nd round pick also but 9th overall is pretty good return on a goalie these days Particularly in a deep draft. Really? Sure. Unless you want a over-generalized, simplified and meaningless answer. In which case what value does it have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rampage Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 please look up recent goalie trades with similar value to Schneider and try and tell everyone here with a straight face that Gillis somehow got fleeced oh but your talking about trading him before he proved himself in the NHL with less experience meaning less trade value I honestly dont think his trade value less back then. Teams needed goalies and Gillis hesitated to pull the trigger. He didn't get as much as he could've got for CS at the draft because teams knew he had to move a tender. He ended up with NO leverage when he had a pretty good amount having 2 starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 No i think you're joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon4401 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 exactly recent goalie trades had a 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick or a mid level prospect i'm surprised Gillis even got a 9th overall pick considering everyone in the NHL knew he had to move a goalie Im not overly surprised Jersey needed a plan for post Brodeur and knew Schneider would be a good fit...Buffalo leaning the hardway the goalie market with Miller...No contending team will pay the premium price and they will lose him in the offseason...Will be intresting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ding-Dong Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 You want to talk about did we have the assets. Yes we did. We had Cory Schnieder. That was our biggest asset and when the plan was to "win now" what did Gillis do he mismanged the F out of that situation. We could have gotten a ransom for Cory but then he held on for too long then it switched to having to move Luongo. - He didn't trade Cory when his value was sky high and everybody was waiting for that trade to happen - Then tried to move Luongo and failed to do so - When he finally traded Cory he traded him for an asset in the future instead of getting someone to help the team right away. Don't tell me we didn't have the assets to make the moves. You've named ONE asset. Now let me ask you a question. What if a team with a top 6 winger to trade doesn't need a goalie? Do they take Cory Schneider anyways? No because that would be what an idiot would do. How many teams in the NHL with a top 6 winger to trade were looking for a goalie? Or more importantly, how many teams would trade a top 6 winger for a goalie? Here are some trades for PROVEN (Goalies that had actually played a full season as the starter) goalies in the NHL. All of these goalies here had very successful careers up until the point to where they were traded. Take Luongo for example. When we got Luongo he was in the prime of his career. We traded a fragile Todd Bertuzzi, a backup goaltender in Alex Auld and Bryan Allen in return for Luongo and Krajicek. Patrick Roy and Mike Keane for Jocelyn Thibault, Martin Rucinsky and Andrei Kovalenko Dominek Hasek for Vyacheslav Kozlov, a first round pick and future considerations Dwayne Roloson when he took the oilers to the Stanley Cup Finals was traded for a 1st rounder and a 3rd rounder. When he took the Lightning to the ECF, he was traded for Ty Wishart Giguere was traded for Vesa Toskala (He played backup behind Hiller) and Jason Blake Tomas Vokoun was traded for a 1st (9th overall), and 2 2nds Halak was traded for Lars Eller and Ian Schultz So in your eyes, a goalie that had yet to play the starter position for a full season in the NHL was going to get more than these goaltenders. Trading Cory Schneider was never going to get us a 'Ransom'. Could we have gotten a little bit more for him? Maybe, I won't deny that. A top 6 winger though? No. Saying that is the same as admitting he was worth more than the goalies listed above when he hadn't even played a full season in the NHL. If you read that last sentence and believe he was worth more than those goalies than you really, really need to take off the homer glasses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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