oldnews Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 hours ago, kanucks25 said: Always amusing when people disregard "charts" (even though they are just facts in picture form) but can provide no evidence against what they claim. "Watch the game" doesn't really work when the eye-test isn't exactly kind to the player, either. It doesn't sound like you understand what a hero chart is - or how limited their use is. The point that most people make with reference to them is specifically their analytical limits - the relatively oversimplified pretense of them being sufficient 'analytics'. It not a quesion of eye test vs hero charts - it's a question of analytics vs hero charts, and the latter is relatively useless - and misleading - for a number of reasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Why are we contemplating signing a #4 D-man (at best) for 7 mil when Chicago just added a legit #4 for basically free. Why can't we have nice things? I assume you are referring to De Haan as your "legit top 4"? The guy has averaged about 18 and change the last few seasons. As has Hutton, Stecher, and even Guddy. I wouldn't refer that average time as "legit top 4". I'm not sure why you think he is a "legit top 4". I mean.. he didn't even play in the top 4 in Carolina 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Specz said: Benn to plug then pursue after Barrie at next year's free agency? People thought Zaitsev's contract was bad and hes like a little more than half of what Myers is being hyped to want? I have no clue man, but I just know if it's what the media is hyping it up to be then we're going to be in deep trouble long term. Would it be better to do nothing than handcuff ourselves with an 8x8 albatross? I'm leaning towards yes... No need for Barrie with hughes, oj and Woo coming online 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, oldnews said: It doesn't sound like you understand what a hero chart is - or how limited their use is. The point that most people make with reference to them is specifically their analytical limits - the relatively oversimplified pretense of them being sufficient 'analytics'. It not a quesion of eye test vs hero charts - it's a question of analytics vs hero charts, and the latter is relatively useless - and misleading - for a number of reasons. I didn't post a hero chart. However I did post several different charts that all measure/show different things but still come to the same result: Myers is an average player. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, kanucks25 said: I didn't post a hero chart. However I did post several different charts that all measure/show different things but still come to the same result: Myers is an average player. An 'average' player - whatever that is - in terms of defense - would be a middle pairing 3/4 then, right? That would appear to be what this team needs. That appears to be what he is. Myers may not be my personal first choice of options - maybe not even in the top 5 - but you can't always get what you want. I'm in no particular hurry to complete the blueline of the future - I'd probably be just as happy with a comparable older veteran (maybe a bit less upside, but more on the shutdown/physical side of the ledger) who can be signed for half the cap and half the term - but if Myers comes in reasonably (6x6 would probably be my unrealistic limit - so I might be walking from that negotiation wthout a signing) - but if he comes in at or less than Edler, I might entertain it, and if it's 5 or 6 years of term, again I might agree to that - but that's where my comfort would become discomfort. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, shayster007 said: I assume you are referring to De Haan as your "legit top 4"? The guy has averaged about 18 and change the last few seasons. As has Hutton, Stecher, and even Guddy. I wouldn't refer that average time as "legit top 4". I'm not sure why you think he is a "legit top 4". I mean.. he didn't even play in the top 4 in Carolina Carolina also has one of the best D groups in the entire league... He won't put up as many points as Myers but he's a lot more reliable defensively. Unlike Myers you can count on him to play against middle-6 forwards consistently 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rekker Posted June 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, kanucks25 said: Carolina also has one of the best D groups in the entire league... He won't put up as many points as Myers but he's a lot more reliable defensively. Unlike Myers you can count on him to play against middle-6 forwards consistently Not the Myers I watched these last playoffs. He was very reliable. Why are the Jets trying to re sign him if he's as bad as you say? 1 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, rekker said: Not the Myers I watched these last playoffs. He was very reliable. Why are the Jets trying to re sign him if he's as bad as you say? Because they're trying to win while their window is open for the next few years which also lines up with Myers last few remaining "good" years. They also traded away a top-4 RHD so they probably don't want to lose another one. Their situation isn't anything like ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, oldnews said: An 'average' player - whatever that is - in terms of defense - would be a middle pairing 3/4 then, right? That would appear to be what this team needs. That appears to be what he is. Myers may not be my personal first choice of options - maybe not even in the top 5 - but you can't always get what you want. I'm in no particular hurry to complete the blueline of the future - I'd probably be just as happy with a comparable older veteran (maybe a bit less upside, but more on the shutdown/physical side of the ledger) who can be signed for half the cap and half the term - but if Myers comes in reasonably (6x6 would probably be my unrealistic limit - so I might be walking from that negotiation wthout a signing) - but if he comes in at or less than Edler, I might entertain it, and if it's 5 or 6 years of term, again I might agree to that - but that's where my comfort would become discomfort. I agree with the shorter term place holder on the right side. Big if is if that is an option. Only JB and the gang knows. I would think any top four stop gap, right side dman would also be courted by the likes of TO and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just now, kanucks25 said: Because they're trying to win while their window is open for the next few years which also lines up with Myers last few remaining "good" years. They also traded away a top-4 RHD so they probably don't want to lose another one. Their situation isn't anything like ours. Exactly. Myers is a legit top four D. Of the rare right side variety. Hence why we should sign him if we can. I'm guessing your scared of the term, as we all are. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, rekker said: I agree with the shorter term place holder on the right side. Big if is if that is an option. Only JB and the gang knows. I would think any top four stop gap, right side dman would also be courted by the likes of TO and others. Toronto doesn't have the cap to re-sign Hainsey or Gardiner or maybe even Marner - I doubt they're going to get the one and only reasoanbly priced 20 minute placeholder on the market - of which there are probably 8 or 10 - or more - depending on what players we don't know about are involved in trade talks. Lots of options really if they don't sign Myers. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanisleryan Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 How many points would TM need to get next season to make people feel okay if we signed him to a 7 x 7 agreement? Keep in mind he's only had over 40 once in his rookie year.... This alone should scare the hell out of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, rekker said: Exactly. Myers is a legit top four D. Of the rare right side variety. Hence why we should sign him if we can. I'm guessing your scared of the term, as we all are. What do you mean "exactly" lol. I just explained to you why the two situations are completely different. What makes sense for another team need not make sense for us. Doubt they're willing to give Myers what he's looking for, anyway. Good luck to whichever GM that does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Vanisleryan said: How many points would TM need to get next season to make people feel okay if we signed him to a 7 x 7 agreement? Keep in mind he's only had over 40 once in his rookie year.... This alone should scare the hell out of you. 30 points and we all pray he stays healthy and I'm happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, kanucks25 said: What do you mean "exactly" lol. I just explained to you why the two situations are completely different. What makes sense for another team need not make sense for us. Doubt they're willing to give Myers what he's looking for, anyway. Good luck to whichever GM that does. I mean exactly, as in Myers is a top four D. I get the feeling you dont think so. Most every team will have a contract or two that may be an overpayment to fill a need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Vanisleryan said: How many points would TM need to get next season to make people feel okay if we signed him to a 7 x 7 agreement? Keep in mind he's only had over 40 once in his rookie year.... This alone should scare the hell out of you. 40 while being at least average defensively would make it palatable. 50 if he's going to be below average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, rekker said: Most every team will have a contract or two that may be an overpayment to fill a need. Don't we already have enough of those? Edited June 25, 2019 by kanucks25 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, kanucks25 said: Don't we already have enough of those? We do, but none of us know what is going on in the war room. There may well be options out there to rid the team of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, rekker said: We do, but none of us know what is going on in the war room. There may well be options out there to rid the team of them. I'll believe it when I see it. Contract management hasn't exactly been this regime's strong suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, kanucks25 said: I'll believe it when I see it. Contract management hasn't exactly been this regime's strong suit. True enough. Got some fugly ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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