Burrows? Do We Really Need Him?

[ForsbergTheGreat]

26 minutes ago, clam linguine said:

You should be begging for us to dump the guys over 30 who have not taken a step down yet. BEGGING. But you wont...will you. You know why?  Because you haven't learned from Higgins...Bieksa.....Hamhuis.  Alex is redundant. We can get assets for the Sedins, Hansen, Edler. There...lotsa room.  I would much rather be watching Matthews 2 years from now then Henrik and Danielle rolling around the ice in their wheel chairs...lol. You are worried about losing Vey, lol? 

Yay Alex!

 

? I think in the midst of your rambling you failed to make a point..I have know clue what you were trying to say there..

[Boddy604]

Panthers are looking for a 3rd line grit guy + a 2nd for Pirri. Retain 50 percent on Burrows and give them what they're asking for throw in a 5th as well if need be.

[clam linguine]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

? I think in the midst of your rambling you failed to make a point..I have know clue what you were trying to say there..

Haha....ya. I just am so sick of the Sedins and Edler.  Never mind, this is the Burrows thread.

[alt kilgore]

22 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

We have enough vet's and leadership with the Twins, Sutter, Hansen and Dorsett

I'll post this again, Where does Burr fit next year?

Sedin, Sedin, Sutter

Baertschi, Horvat, Hansen

Etem Vey Virtanen

Gaunce McCann Dorsett

 

Who does Burrows replace?  Which non waiver elidgable player to we risk sending back, all for that one "fricken" year? Grenier, Kenins.  Is it worth risking losing a young asset for nothing, all for a player who's likely giving less on ice value?  Do we also delay another year of Shinkaruk NHL development,  There's also the possibility Boeser or Rodin competing for a spot.  That lineup is also assuming we doesn’t make any UFA signings (lucic, Ladd, or Okposo) and we let go of Cracknell.  With the way Benning talked about us having cap, it sure seems like will will be in the mix of things, meaning that another less roster spot open. 

Does it really benefit Burrows or the team to have him as a depth player rotating in an out of the line up with younger players and injury relief.  Less be honest, next year is likely his last year, he will be 36 and a lot of wear on his body, is that really how Burrows is going to finish his career?

I’d be willing to find a team for him in the summer and even retain cap (50%).  We should be able to find a playoff team that could use his skills.  Give him one last real kick at the can, and still be player that has impact.  It’s that compared to rotating in and out of the lineup in Vancouver.

 

overall I wouldn't be shocked if jb put burrows name out there this TD.  But likely no deal due to his term. I expect JB will push hard to move burr around draft day and this offseason. It's the not the end of the world if he's on the roster next season but he won't finish the year with the team. 

You make some good points. But what about injuries? For this team it seems to be a right of passage for each season to have significant injuries. I would like to see the youth get more of a shot as well, but Willie has shown he is cautious with inserting them into the lineup every night (and rightly so). So there would most likely be a spot available either due to this or injuries. But I also think that Burrows being the consummate team player would not have a problem being used as a depth player for his final year if it came down to that. Hey, if Alex is not playing better than the other forwards available, he deserves to be sat. But there is a reason why Burrows has never been a healthy scratch. I googled this, and yes there was one time: I found this tweet from 3 years ago:

http://www2.dailyfaceoff.com/players/news/1461/alexandre-burrows?page=3

 

Daniel and burrows also not playing.

 

Burrows will be a healthy scratch tonight with the Canucks locked into the playoffs.

Brad Ziemer

So I'm happy either way. But it would be damn difficult, more than any other past Canuck, including Bure and Linden, to watch Alex playing for another team.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

23 minutes ago, kilgore said:

You make some good points. But what about injuries? For this team it seems to be a right of passage for each season to have significant injuries. I would like to see the youth get more of a shot as well, but Willie has shown he is cautious with inserting them into the lineup every night (and rightly so). So there would most likely be a spot available either due to this or injuries. But I also think that Burrows being the consummate team player would not have a problem being used as a depth player for his final year if it came down to that. Hey, if Alex is not playing better than the other forwards available, he deserves to be sat. But there is a reason why Burrows has never been a healthy scratch. I googled this, and yes there was one time: I found this tweet from 3 years ago:

http://www2.dailyfaceoff.com/players/news/1461/alexandre-burrows?page=3

 

Daniel and burrows also not playing.

 

Burrows will be a healthy scratch tonight with the Canucks locked into the playoffs.

Brad Ziemer

So I'm happy either way. But it would be damn difficult, more than any other past Canuck, including Bure and Linden, to watch Alex playing for another team.

Well the way I see the lines going next year would be….

Sedin Sedin Hansen

Lucic Sutter Etem

Baertschi Horvat Grenier

Gaunce Vey Dorsett

Kenins

Zalewski

 

That would mean Shinkaruk, McCann, Virtanen, start the year in the minors.  It’ll help them develop at the pro level playing meaningful minutes.  But since they are waiver excempt, they could be brought up in case of injuries. 

There was a quote not too long about when Higgins got waived, where Burrows said he basically understands that it’s a young mans game and the direction the team seems to be heading.  I think he’s already mentally preparing himself.  Personally I’d like to see him on a playoff team in his final year, a last stop for him to be giving the opportunity to be clutch again.  NYR or FLA so I could actually cheer for them. 

[Spotted Zebra]

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Well the way I see the lines going next year would be….

Sedin Sedin Hansen

Lucic Sutter Etem

Baertschi Horvat Grenier

Gaunce Vey Dorsett

Kenins

Zalewski

 

That would mean Shinkaruk, McCann, Virtanen, start the year in the minors.  It’ll help them develop at the pro level playing meaningful minutes.  But since they are waiver excempt, they could be brought up in case of injuries. 

There was a quote not too long about when Higgins got waived, where Burrows said he basically understands that it’s a young mans game and the direction the team seems to be heading.  I think he’s already mentally preparing himself.  Personally I’d like to see him on a playoff team in his final year, a last stop for him to be giving the opportunity to be clutch again.  NYR or FLA so I could actually cheer for them. 

I agree, I mean admittedly I was never that much of a Burrows fan, but I can respect what he did for us for that one year. 

What makes Chicago so succesful? Sure Kane, Toews and Keith, but they recognize when they need to move on. Ladd,Bolland,Byfuglien,Sharp... Sure if there was no cap space they'd all likely still be on that team, and probably go undefeated, but the point is they know how to maximize the return on players. 

Unless you have players like the Sedins or someone in that stature, there is no need for lifelong Canucks. There just isnt. 

How the Ryan Kesler situation was handled was the perfect example of exactly how to handle players.Ride them  for as long as you can and offer them well wishes and get back what you can. They have a life after hockey, they can move back once it's over. Yes it sounds human, but it's a business. 

Sedin - Sedin - Lucic

Baertschi - Horvat - Hansen

Shinkaruk - Sutter - Virtanen

Gaunce - McCann - Dorsett 

Rodin 

 

There just isn't enough space for him. Sure don't sign Lucic okay, but not to gift him a roster spot. 

[gameburn]

33 minutes ago, Spotted Zebra said:

I agree, I mean admittedly I was never that much of a Burrows fan, but I can respect what he did for us for that one year. 

What makes Chicago so succesful? Sure Kane, Toews and Keith, but they recognize when they need to move on. Ladd,Bolland,Byfuglien,Sharp... Sure if there was no cap space they'd all likely still be on that team, and probably go undefeated, but the point is they know how to maximize the return on players. 

Unless you have players like the Sedins or someone in that stature, there is no need for lifelong Canucks. There just isnt. 

How the Ryan Kesler situation was handled was the perfect example of exactly how to handle players.Ride them  for as long as you can and offer them well wishes and get back what you can. They have a life after hockey, they can move back once it's over. Yes it sounds human, but it's a business. 

Sedin - Sedin - Lucic

Baertschi - Horvat - Hansen

Shinkaruk - Sutter - Virtanen

Gaunce - McCann - Dorsett 

Rodin 

 

There just isn't enough space for him. Sure don't sign Lucic okay, but not to gift him a roster spot. 

You're on to something here.  Just who does get dealt or delayed in order to keep Burr?  I hadn't realized how many players we have on contract/knocking at the door.  Burr is pretty much redundant right now... imagine next year with a free agent signing and Gaunce or Shink making the move up to the NHL.  And you didn't even add in Etem!   At 4.5 million Burr is not a good guy to have in Utica or playing limited minutes. He doesn't seem to get chances anymore or create the turnovers/forecheck he was famous for.  He does however still get paid like he still does these things.  Buyout seems more and more reasonable, or some version of that.  Higgins is the benchmark.  I thought Burr was special -- good leadership, but looking at your list is sobering.  

[kingofsurrey]

Do we need Burrows ?

 

Absolutely , NO . 

Are we stuck with Burrows ?

Absolutely , YES.

 

4.5 mil per year with term for  Burrows makes him untradeable  unfortunately.

Like i said yesterday. New Utica super line.     Burrow, Higgins, Vrbata  -  10 mil per year. LOL. 

[Spotted Zebra]

10 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Do we need Burrows ?

 

Absolutely , NO . 

Are we stuck with Burrows ?

Absolutely , YES.

 

4.5 mil per year with term for  Burrows makes him untradeable  unfortunately.

Like i said yesterday. New Utica super line.     Burrow, Higgins, Vrbata  -  10 mil per year. LOL. 

Say goodbye to the odds any respectable free agent signs with Vancouver again.

[Alflives]

Just now, Spotted Zebra said:

Say goodbye to the odds any respectable free agent signs with Vancouver again.

I don't think so.  Guys follow the cash.  Stamkos would sign here if we paid him enough.  Burr is done as a player.  We should really buy him out, and apply that Cap money to a guy like Stamkos.  Burr would not even get another contract.  He would be one of those PTO vets at a team's training camp.  There are too many young guys, who will do his job, and do it better.  It's sad to see, but that's just age.

[Spotted Zebra]

Just now, Alflives said:

I don't think so.  Guys follow the cash.  Stamkos would sign here if we paid him enough.  Burr is done as a player.  We should really buy him out, and apply that Cap money to a guy like Stamkos.  Burr would not even get another contract.  He would be one of those PTO vets at a team's training camp.  There are too many young guys, who will do his job, and do it better.  It's sad to see, but that's just age.

This was more about Vrbata than Burrows.

It would never happen but if you put both Burrows and Vrbata in the minors like he was suggesting players notice this.

Sure they can sign a contract but if you see the GM is someone who won't honour it, 10 times out of 10 you'll sign elsewhere.

[kingofsurrey]

2 minutes ago, Spotted Zebra said:

This was more about Vrbata than Burrows.

It would never happen but if you put both Burrows and Vrbata in the minors like he was suggesting players notice this.

Sure they can sign a contract but if you see the GM is someone who won't honour it, 10 times out of 10 you'll sign elsewhere.

I agree with you spotted zerbra. I am joking about vrbata....  I think someone will give us something for him....    Burrows is untradeable though with another yr.

I would consider burying burrows in utica.    I would move vrbata for sure though at the deadline...

 

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, Spotted Zebra said:

This was more about Vrbata than Burrows.

It would never happen but if you put both Burrows and Vrbata in the minors like he was suggesting players notice this.

Sure they can sign a contract but if you see the GM is someone who won't honour it, 10 times out of 10 you'll sign elsewhere.

That could very well be the case.  I still believe guys will follow the cash.

[chon derry]

21 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I don't think so.  Guys follow the cash.  Stamkos would sign here if we paid him enough.  Burr is done as a player.  We should really buy him out, and apply that Cap money to a guy like Stamkos.  Burr would not even get another contract.  He would be one of those PTO vets at a team's training camp.  There are too many young guys, who will do his job, and do it better.  It's sad to see, but that's just age.

higgins falls into the category of recognizing his own drop in play and not willing to admit it like etem did can't blame higgins he,s still under contract. burrows and hamhuies now fall into this category as does elder ,elder does,nt have much of a case though being only 29. if your not part of the solution your part of the problem. ideally it would be nice to see some of the vets not towing the line to just willingly step aside through by out or trade,s

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, chon derry said:

higgins falls into the category of recognizing his own drop in play and not willing to admit it like etem did can't blame higgins he,s still under contract. burrows and hamhuies now fall into this category as does elder ,elder does,nt have much of a case though being only 29. if your not part of the solution your part of the problem. ideally it would be nice to see some of the vets not towing the line to just willingly step aside through by out or trade,s

Don't you think though that most one time elite athletes fail to see their own decline?  That's where the GM (coach too) must step in and just do the difficult thing and force the player out. Hamhuis, Edler, Burr, Prust must go.

[chon derry]

35 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Don't you think though that most one time elite athletes fail to see their own decline?  That's where the GM (coach too) must step in and just do the difficult thing and force the player out. Hamhuis, Edler, Burr, Prust must go.

don't know  if its a failure to recognize it or a failure to admit, one can only blame past gm,s for long contracts with adjoining ntc,s  some players can play into their 30,s i.e. ladd for example other,s not so much, elder is puzzling?

Edited January 28, 2016 by chon derry

[gameburn]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

I don't think so.  Guys follow the cash.  Stamkos would sign here if we paid him enough.  Burr is done as a player.  We should really buy him out, and apply that Cap money to a guy like Stamkos.  Burr would not even get another contract.  He would be one of those PTO vets at a team's training camp.  There are too many young guys, who will do his job, and do it better.  It's sad to see, but that's just age.

If you look at the number of chances he generates for other players, he's not doing it anymore.  If you look at what he does with the chances others give him, he is only a tiny bit better.  What is it they say? The hands go first?  In Higgins case it has been the hands going, Burr's decline is a mix of things, but the hands are part of it.  Alf has got me on board the revitalization train.

[CeeBee51]

Burrows has 1 more year under contract. I certainly can live with that. Vrbata will/should be gone, Hammer too. Prust- gonzo, Weber- better be gone, Bartkowski not sure. Higgins, already gone.  Thats a pretty high turnover. Need a wee bit of continuity methinks.

[Coconuts]

It's weird to think that this thread is going on eight years old. Man, time flies.

[higgyfan]

9 hours ago, Coconuts said:

It's weird to think that this thread is going on eight years old. Man, time flies.

And in those years, Burr has more than earned every cent the team has shelled out to him. 

His story alone is inspirtational to any young player struggling to become a permanent NHL player and he seems to be very supportive of his teammates.