Avicii Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Haha, DeNiro actually bragging about his 10,000+ posts and vote points? How about +500 man points for you! Go share them with the rest of your friends in you know, the real world. I could get 5,000 easy, post how how much Luongo sucks and there ya go. Weren't you the guy that said you wanted Doan to mentor Kassian, then goes on to say that we don't need people to mentor grown men? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Well if he had sent him an off sheet first, his choice would be to sign it or stay in Nashville. Your telling me he wouldn't play for the Canucks if we offered to sign him? I don't buy that. My guess is Gillis just wasn't willing to pay him what it would have taken to get him here. Philly was, and now there's a good chance they'll get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigturk8 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Lol, everything I have said has pointed to one conclusion; that Garrison instead of Salo will significantly improve the hockey club. I merely skipped over the part where you say one thing, I say you're/he's wrong, they say no you're wrong provide your arguments as to why. Rather than argue over bull I substantiated the argument and expanded the discussion. I was not aware that this was a straight up debate on whether Salo is better than Garrison in the roster next season, if that's the case none of us have any business saying yes/no. It's not a cut and dry black and white situation. Yes, I added above and beyond what the "original argument" was, not doing so leads to boring conversation so instead it was you who dragged the topic through the mud and disregarded the simple premise of what I was doing; educating you that it's not as simple as someone makes it out to be. "Having Garrison in the roster over Salo is not a significant improvement" (paraphrased). That's his opinion, it wasn't a point proven in fact that merited a debate with the onus on me proving it to be false. So if your point was that DeNiro was commenting under the guise of a debate, that wasn't clear. To me it looked like an opinion, to which I provided my own and expanded upon the "argument". I mean really, that's what were here for is discussion but it's this kind of lowbrow crap that descends into rhetoric and name calling that gives this forum the joke of a reputation that it has. Is this how I was supposed to respond? DeNiro: "I don't see Garrison as being a significant improvement over Salo next season" ShadowGoon: "You're wrong, he's way better than Salo". ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 "Going forward" includes next year. If at best Garrison proves to be equivalent to Salo NEXT YEAR, how would re-signing Salo over offering a long term contract to Garrison be the better decision? It just proves the shortsightedness you possess when pragmatically looking at and assessing the given situation. There are more factors present in any business decision, let alone tendering performance based contracts. Potential absolutely has to be one of the criteria, this is an asset management game. You have to plan 5 steps ahead of where you are to ensure you are perennially competitive. I fail to see how the Canucks are any less competitive with Garrison in the roster next year instead of Salo. I think you need to take a step back and correct your lack of objectivity. Salo has been here for a long time, so he was a known quantity; I get that but you also need to be able to adjust and ride the wave or risk getting sucked under and pulled down by the current. The point is, from a performance stand point, a business stand point and a future stand point Garrison was all positive. Even if you only look at next season (which IMO is a very narrow sighted stance to take, and an incomplete sample size to base a decision upon), I would have still gone with Garrison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Shea Weber. Shane Doan. Roberto Luongo. In an interview with The Globe and Mail on Monday morning, Mike Gillis, president and general manager of the Vancouver Canucks, weighed in on three of the bigger names in hockey, central figures in the flux of the hockey team’s off-season roster. On Doan Vancouver remains in the hunt, according to Gillis, who in general disdains multiyear contracts for players 35 or older. But such rules are not set in stone and Gillis chases Doan alongside other teams such as the New York Rangers, Pittsburgh Penguins and Philadelphia Flyers. “We’re one of the teams that are active in trying to pursue him and see if he’d like to play here in Vancouver,” said Gillis in an interview in his office at Rogers Arena on Monday morning. “Not sure of a timeline yet but we’re hopeful we have a chance to convince him to play here.” Doan turns 36 in October and has played his whole career for the Phoenix Coyotes. In the past three seasons, he has had an average of 55 points, compared with an average of 69 the three seasons before that. A Doan signing will be expensive, and demand a multiyear deal. Despite Vancouver’s aversion to such contracts for older players, Gillis said Doan’s availability as a free agent is a rare occurrence. “There are specific situations that cause you, not to reconsider the guidelines, but present a different set of a facts, a difference set of circumstances, that take you outside of those guidelines.” On Weber The Sicamous, British Columbia-born defenceman, a restricted free agent, has accepted a $110-million, 14-year offer sheet from the Philadelphia Flyers, a deal many in hockey expect the Nashville Predators to match, with a deadline of Wednesday night to decide. Gillis, earlier in July, spent three hours with Weber and his agent, at Weber’s offseason home in Kelowna, near Sicamous. Gillis believed he would not be able to snag Weber with a long-term offer sheet, concluding that the Nashville Predators would match any proposed contract. He said the 26-year-old defenceman was focused on a big-money, long-term deal, under the current Collective Bargaining Agreement rules. “Our issue was how do you get the player,” said Gillis. “Our issue wasn’t the money. It’s how do you actually get the player on your team. Our feeling was that a contract with term probably wouldn’t allow that to happen.” Asked why he didn’t take a flier like Philadelphia general manager Paul Holmgren, Gillis measured his answer. “Well.” He paused, took a breath. “I guess that’s one school of thought. To me I’d rather be trying to accomplish things rather than, ‘Okay, throw something up in the air and hope that it sticks.’ “We threw around trade possibilities. We threw around every possible scenario. I spoke to him [Weber] about every possible scenario, and his agent. At the end of the day, I guess Philadelphia was prepared to take that chance.” On the B.C. connection, Gillis said, “We hear constantly, people want to tweet and blog, every player who has been born in British Columbia wants to play for the Vancouver Canucks.” Gillis, the former player agent, said the factors that influence a decision for a player, especially in free agency, are myriad, particularly because players have only rare opportunities to truly test their market value as a professional. In the end, with a new Collective Bargaining Agreement coming, possibly with contract term limits, Weber went for the money. “It was quite clear, at the end of the day, what the objectives were,” said Gillis. “To take advantage of the current system, and to maximize his economic return, which is absolutely fair, which he’s completely entitled to.” On Luongo Gillis hasn’t spoken with his former starting goaltender in a while and stated, in general, “there’s nothing new to report.” He suggested more activity could percolate in mid-August. “As you get closer to the season, things begin to pick up as teams see their needs.” On the market for Luongo, there have been real deals on the table. Gillis hasn’t been motivated to move, though he suggested that could evolve with time. “We’ve been given solid offers. Nothing we would do today. We’re going to continue the process with the teams that are interested.” Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yosupermexican Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 It would be absolutely amazing if Nashville bucks up on this. Would love to see it just to spite philly and for that matter the way Weber has gone about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucklehead2 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 They did. He said they definitely want to get bigger and stronger but players like that are hard to come by, and teams aren't giving them away. He thinks Kassian will make an impact this year, but they're still looking to get bigger and stronger, and that's why they're targeting Doan. They'll also be looking at any other possibilites as they come along, but unfortunately this year there isn't a lot on the market, and teams aren't just parting w/ those players. He says next years crop of FAs have a lot more options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucklehead2 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 You want facts? Here are the "Facts" Salo is at present 37 years old and has almost every conceivable injury a player could likely receive in his career, you have to wonder how much tread was left on the tires. At the two year term he wanted there was too much risk for a team such as the Canucks who are always spending to cap, not to mention Salo's point production while hasn't been on decline has at least been hampered by the fact he only plays 73% (roughly) on average of every season. Here is a handy illustration to prove my point: Garrison is at present 27 years old, 10 years younger and just had a break out season. It's been proven that defencemen always take longer to mature into impact players and he is just hitting his stride, not to mention his offensive production is trending upwards. I am perfectly happy with Garrison @ 4.6 x 6 if he can level off point production in the low 40's, and provides the physical two way play he is known for and has a more consistent presence on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmonberries Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Well we do have Bobby Luongo locked down at a 5.3 million cap hit for ten more years AND the consensus 28 or 29 best prospect group in the NHL. At least that's something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 the FACTS are if you have ever been to a canucks game you would see that Salo was probably the hardest working defenceman on the ice and is very valuable despite his age and injury history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I'm not even going to bother quoting your drivel bigturks8, the fact that you continually lock in on the "points" as the primary reasoning for your and DeNiro's arguing just shows how asinine your logic is and how narrow sighted your knowledge of hockey is. Garrison is by far a much greater all around player than Salo in addition to having higher point totals last night. It is the sum difference of the tangibles that Garrison brings vs Salo that makes this a better hockey club next season. Baggins hit the nail on the head, his statistics are far above what Salo is capable in my opinion of providing next season, I would also wager that his (Garrison) Corsi numbers are better too. If you can't understand the simple concept that there are several other factors beside point totals that make one player better over another, please stop "arguing" these topics on a hockey forum, it makes you look like fools. I'll say it again for emphasis. Garrison over Salo makes the hockey team STRONGER because after point totals being similar, Garrison brings MORE to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Best post I have seen, in quite some time, on CDC. Where was that objectivity with a certain other transaction? Facts or opinion? What "facts" can you provide that Salo is our "hardest working" d-man? In my "opinion" it would be easier to make that claim for Hamhuis and Bieksa. Both play against the oppositions top players, both play physical, both log the most "tough minutes" and yet both produce offensively. Here's some facts for you in comparison to Garrison: Salo 11/12 Games: 69 Goals: 9 Assists: 16 Points: 25 Hits: 29 Blk Shots: 77 Give aways: 35 Take aways: 23 Shot %: 6.6 Average ice time per game: Even: 15:22 PP: 2:45 PK: 2:19 Garrison 11/12 Games: 77 Goals: 16 Assists: 17 Points: 33 Hits: 127 Blk Shots: 124 Give aways: 30 Take aways: 20 Shot %: 9.5 Average ice time per game: Even: 18:35 PP: 2:31 PK: 2:34 Those are facts. I'm not sure how anybody could call Garrison in place of Salo a status quo. Garrison can obviously log big minutes in all situations. Judging by the block shots, he's good positionally and plays physical to boot. Plus he has a big shot. I'd say we got an upgrade based on the stats. In addition what elite players did he have to set up in Florida? Playing behind the Sedins it's virtually given his assists will increase. Time will tell but I believe MG scored a good one. Those are opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 The fact is that Gillis tried to and wanted to sign Salo.The Canucks site stated it was the organisation's #1 priority on the morning of July the 1st. The fact is that Sami is ten years older than Garrison while Garrison has yet to play one game in Vancouver. Vancouver is not Florida. Sami made 2.5 million dollars less than what Garrison will be paid this year-and every year,with a no trade. Sami did not get to play with a Norris contender that feeds him shots all night long. Garrison played with the second highest scoring d man in the NHL and the d man that was ranked first in TOI/game. Salo had the hardest shot on the Canucks year after year,regularly clocking in at over 100 mph. In fact ,he was last year's winner at the Canucks superskills with a 102.7 mph/163.5 kmh slapper. The fact is that Sami spent ten years here,if you include the lockout, and gave his heart and soul to this organisation. The fact is Sami recovered from those 40 injuries and played the game at the most elite of levels after every single injury. The fact is,at age 37,Sami led all Canucks d men in PP goals,despite second line minutes and his injuries and games the team scratched him to rest for the playoffs down the stretch. Again,the fact is that Jason has yet to play one game in Vancouver. If Jason -or any of the existing Canucks-can play at the level Sami did when they turn 37 and Gilis offers them a contract I will be very surprised. The fact is Canucks,org braintrust wanted and tried to secure Sami for another year but failed. The fact is that Garrison is not Salo and vice-versa and this is not an either/or issue. Respect is due to Sami. How about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrdin Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Regarding Weber, you seem to assume that Gillis can just offer whatever amount of $ to whatever player he wants, for whatever term he thinks. There are owners you know. While the Aquilinis have said they will pay to make this team a winner, I'm sure they wouldn't be all that happy after paying Luongo almost $17 mil for the last 2 years just to let him go to another team. Then turn around and pay $26 mil to another player in a year's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Salo put up 25 points in 69 games last season and was arguably one of our most consistent D-men. To think that Garrison is going to be that much better than him is unrealistic. Common sense would tell you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucklehead2 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Facts or opinion? What "facts" can you provide that Salo is our "hardest working" d-man? In my "opinion" it would be easier to make that claim for Hamhuis and Bieksa. Both play against the oppositions top players, both play physical, both log the most "tough minutes" and yet both produce offensively. Here's some facts for you in comparison to Garrison: Salo 11/12 Games: 69 Goals: 9 Assists: 16 Points: 25 Hits: 29 Blk Shots: 77 Give aways: 35 Take aways: 23 Shot %: 6.6 Average ice time per game: Even: 15:22 PP: 2:45 PK: 2:19 Garrison 11/12 Games: 77 Goals: 16 Assists: 17 Points: 33 Hits: 127 Blk Shots: 124 Give aways: 30 Take aways: 20 Shot %: 9.5 Average ice time per game: Even: 18:35 PP: 2:31 PK: 2:34 Those are facts. I'm not sure how anybody could call Garrison in place of Salo a status quo. Garrison can obviously log big minutes in all situations. Judging by the block shots, he's good positionally and plays physical to boot. Plus he has a big shot. I'd say we got an upgrade based on the stats. In addition what elite players did he have to set up in Florida? Playing behind the Sedins it's virtually given his assists will increase. Time will tell but I believe MG scored a good one. Those are opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WL Canuck Fan Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'm starting to think Gillis will make an excuse for anything to cover his butt. Sorry, but he had a chance to get one of the best defenseman in the NHL and he couldn't pull the trigger. Just accept it and move on, don't make excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 You are confusing something. Two things actually. First, we wanted to sign Salo, no disrespect occurred. But Salo got offered a stupid amount of money. Yes Sammy led us with his big shot. And we looked bad when he was out of the lineup. But he started the season with 15 points in 15 games and finished looking exactly like you would expect of an injury prone 36 year old, a bit tired. We needed Salo more than he could really offer at this stage. Add those up, and its incredibly clear why we needed to add Garrison. It would have been great to keep him in a limited role. Just not for multiple years at $3.75 mill because its too much for a tired defender. The fact is that Gillis tried to and wanted to sign Salo.The Canucks site stated it was the organisation's #1 priority on the morning of July the 1st. The fact is that Sami is ten years older than Garrison while Garrison has yet to play one game in Vancouver. Vancouver is not Florida. Sami made 2.5 million dollars less than what Garrison will be paid this year-and every year,with a no trade. Sami did not get to play with a Norris contender that feeds him shots all night long. Garrison played with the second highest scoring d man in the NHL and the d man that was ranked first in TOI/game. Salo had the hardest shot on the Canucks year after year,regularly clocking in at over 100 mph. In fact ,he was last year's winner at the Canucks superskills with a 102.7 mph/163.5 kmh slapper. The fact is that Sami spent ten years here,if you include the lockout, and gave his heart and soul to this organisation. The fact is Sami recovered from those 40 injuries and played the game at the most elite of levels after every single injury. The fact is,at age 37,Sami led all Canucks d men in PP goals,despite second line minutes and his injuries and games the team scratched him to rest for the playoffs down the stretch. Again,the fact is that Jason has yet to play one game in Vancouver. If Jason -or any of the existing Canucks-can play at the level Sami did when they turn 37 and Gilis offers them a contract I will be very surprised. The fact is Canucks,org braintrust wanted and tried to secure Sami for another year but failed. The fact is that Garrison is not Salo and vice-versa and this is not an either/or issue. Respect is due to Sami. How about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Line Juggler Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 The fact is that Gillis tried to and wanted to sign Salo.The Canucks site stated it was the organisation's #1 priority on the morning of July the 1st. The fact is that Sami is ten years older than Garrison while Garrison has yet to play one game in Vancouver. Vancouver is not Florida. Sami made 2.5 million dollars less than what Garrison will be paid this year-and every year,with a no trade. Sami did not get to play with a Norris contender that feeds him shots all night long. Garrison played with the second highest scoring d man in the NHL and the d man that was ranked first in TOI/game. Salo had the hardest shot on the Canucks year after year,regularly clocking in at over 100 mph. In fact ,he was last year's winner at the Canucks superskills with a 102.7 mph/163.5 kmh slapper. The fact is that Sami spent ten years here,if you include the lockout, and gave his heart and soul to this organisation. The fact is Sami recovered from those 40 injuries and played the game at the most elite of levels after every single injury. The fact is,at age 37,Sami led all Canucks d men in PP goals,despite second line minutes and his injuries and games the team scratched him to rest for the playoffs down the stretch. Again,the fact is that Jason has yet to play one game in Vancouver. If Jason -or any of the existing Canucks-can play at the level Sami did when they turn 37 and Gilis offers them a contract I will be very surprised. The fact is Canucks,org braintrust wanted and tried to secure Sami for another year but failed. The fact is that Garrison is not Salo and vice-versa and this is not an either/or issue. Respect is due to Sami. How about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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