The Bookie Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 The problem is the Sedins. They always play together. This gives you little line combos. Put Daniel and Kesler together. Give Henrik the two hardest working players on the team on his wings. Burrows - Henrik - Hansen Daniel - Kesler - Higgins Booth - Santorelli - Kassian Sestito - Richardson - Weise Similar to the mold of Pittsburgh. Give your best player (Sid) two weaker linemates that he can elevate, and give your weaker center (Geno) the best winger. Kunitz = Burrows Dupuis = Hansen Neal = Daniel Higgins/Kassian = Jokinen/Bennett Agree with this.... 1) Higgins and Hansen are as studly as third lines get - and are the same two guys who helped propel this team to a top scoring team - 40 point players on the 3rd liner is exceptional production. What they don't have is a 57% faceoff guy on the fourth line - but there are two guys with that kind of faceoff proficiency still on the UFA market - and two other centers already on the roster who I wouldn't trade for Lapierre. Richardson Steckel Santorelli or Richardson Smithson Santorelli imo could be as good a fourth line as this team has ever had. Higgins Schroeder Hansen also has the ability to be as good a third line as this team has ever had. Raffi Torres continues to be one of the most over lamented players in Canucks lore (as are all the other former Canucks that should all still be here) - and yet for all the talk of lost secondary scoring, Torres scored 14 goals and 29 points here in 80 games - while Higgins who replaced him at 3LW had 18 goals and 43 points in 71 games and was at a 20 goal pace last year - and that is his production while dealing with infections that caused him to lose 12 pounds in the midst of that production. Higgins is an upgrade to the scoring depth, Hansen has steadily improved his offensive production. 2) I'd take Garrison over Ehrhoff anyday - score from the point as opposed to the rush - a far superior defensive blueliner. Ehrhoff is one of the more over-rated nostalgia cases on CDC. Not having Salo makes a difference - he was the best '5th' man in the NHL - but at the same time, imo the combination of an improving Tanev and Stanton has the potential to be as good as the Ballard/Rome pairing that the Canucks had prior to the cap drop - which people tend to forget took place. 3) Raymond broke his back, Booth blew out his knee, etc. Kesler went from scoring 41 goals to the curse of Jeff O'Neill, hobbling and scoring 22, squeezing his stick, trying to force his production and generally never satisfying those 'beast mode' expectations. Yeah a tweak or two would be nice - but a fourth line upgrade isn't what all the complaining on CDC revolves around. Adding a top 6 forward is not only a cap space pipe dream, but it also contradicts what oh so much of the complaining around here is based upon - the idea of a young player or two getting a shot to develop and produce on this roster. I'm fine with taking a chance on Schroder, Kassian and possibly Jensen. ....as well as this. To keep it from tl:dr territory, let's do our best to work with what we have in this abyss of a salary cap season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THERETOOL Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Gillis will be canned if the team has a hard time this year. Francesco has next to no patience for losing hockey. Francesco is an entitled son of a rich man , has made many of these poor decisions .. I wish someone could fire his ass too .. he should stick to being daddies little helper , and stop trying to help manage a hockey franchise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Two years in the playoffs with one win after being a few goals shy of the most successful team in the entire league may be copacetic to some of the fan base but similar -or worse-results will not be tolerated in the future,is my projection. This team is in a major trajectory down and it will have to reverse itself immediately for the managerial/core player status quo to be maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Does any of that have anything to do with being in the Northwest division? It must mean nothing.Move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 This had only became a problem after Gillis decided he wanted to make his team "bigger". CoHo trade was bad no doubt about it, I have high hopes for Kassian but I feel he will top out at 3rd liner. Sestito is slow doesn't really hit and I 'm pretty sure Steve Bennett* has more talent then him. With the loss of Erhoff one could argue we have one of the slowest back ends in the league as made really noticeable in the Sharks game with Bieksa and Edler being pylon'd all night. Speed and skill kills, I.E 2011. We lose in the Stanely Cup finals and Gillis feels the need to retool to a bigger team. I feel the Richardson and Santo signings make us faster but they aren't true 2nd liners but still a move in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merci Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Shinkuruk Henrik Kassian Daniel Horvat Kesler 1st round 2014 Gaunce Burrows Santorelli Richardson Hansen You guys are dumb to think we're doing anything this year but getting another top 10 pick before we buy out booth and trade higgins for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16ToWin Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 It was pretty good. Try to lighten up a bit. I was being sarcastic.. I thought it was kinda funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar baby watermelon Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 How is the new coach saviour and youth movement going? Ironic that Raymond ,Grabner and Hodgson all lead their teams and the entire NHL. There might be a problem with the core and the talent that this .org decided to keep instead of trade. How many games into the season are we at yet?? Raymond will taper off for sure. Grabner & Hodgson will too but not as fast as Raymond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucklehead73 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Tough when a guy like Booth is untradeable... But with the assets we traded for him (sammuelson) we should be able to waive him or send him packing for a draft pick. Kesler is untradeable as well since he figures himself to be Guy Lafleur nowadays. I think Kesler can still be effective with a playmaker but Torts would have to enforce the law to keep Booth and Kesler from trying to beat three defenders and firing the totally expected easy shots on goal every freaking shift. Kesler is effective with Sedin. Kesler just tries to do waaay to much when he is the only real talent on the line IMHO. Biggest challenge is finding that playmaking winger... Or finding the center who wins draws if Kesler moves up to the sedins or even to the wing I think we could give our youth a shot playing with santorelli... At the very least Higgins and Hansen would not be on the top six. Sedins/kesler has been effective and keeps Keslers in a secondary support role going to the net and sets for one timers Booth Santorelli Kassian or try Shinkaruk if we move Booth. We just need some chemistry on the second line. I don't know... A lot of question marks on the second line. Gotta find a way to keep Booth and Kesler from rushing the puck tho... Terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I have to admit that a new GM might be necessary to really shake this team up the way it needs to be. I HATE all the NTC Gillis hands out. Remember how CDC used to make fun of Sutter/Feaster for giving plugs NTC? That is now Gillis. Hansen and Higgins are good 3rd liners. Nothing more than that. Hamhuis an Bieksa have been terrible so far. Bieksa is good at pinching and joining the rush but at everything defensive he sucks. Hamhuis looks like he had a lobotomy in the offseason. Bad decisions every time he touches the puck or has to defend the rush. When your best D are Tanev and Stanton it is pretty sad. But guess what? All the NTC say we are stuck with them forever. Tortorella has done a good job at getting the team to be more aggressive but they need to find consistency. Yes, but without handing out the NTCs we probably wouldn't be able to sign all of theses aces to a "discount". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 You are totally right.... but we haven't really seen much meanness from Zach either. He had one good hit on Subban last night... if we ever needed a fight it was last night after the bad goal. No fight. Not just him, but nobody even tried to get under the Habs skin. Ya I didn't see the game. But I'm hoping that Zack can do what he's brought in for. Cody's living up to his part in Buffalo though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16ToWin Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 We have slipped from a perch where we had a year, perhaps two as the premium offensive team in the league. Three key reasons, all personnel based; 1) We don't quite have the stud defensive 3rd line which awards us extra possessions. 2) Our transition game is not as good without Erhoff. 3) Samuelsson's passing and puck control (under rated) and Raymonds speed no longer flank Kesler. Where are we in overall scoring? I would guess middle of the pack at best without looking, and above middle of the pack but not great last year, a bit better the year before. A few tweaks could help? CS, I do enjoy most of your comments but, Bringing up Sam and erhoff?? 4 yrs and counting?? Might as well bring up the cam for Pederson trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Shinkuruk Henrik Kassian Daniel Horvat Kesler 1st round 2014 Gaunce Burrows Santorelli Richardson Hansen You guys are dumb to think we're doing anything this year but getting another top 10 pick before we buy out booth and trade higgins for anything. You shouldn't be calling us dumb after some of the proposals you have posted on these boards. Jensen, Corrado and a 1st for Eller - wasn't that your latest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merci Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 You shouldn't be calling us dumb after some of the proposals you have posted on these boards. Jensen, Corrado and a 1st for Eller - wasn't that your latest? implying that trade wouldn't be solid gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanfor42 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Hodgson didn't even make the team that year. There was no room on our roster for him. He would have been waived & lost, especially after the poor camp he had, if he couldn't make Florida he wouldn't have cracked our roster. He had a bad camp with Florida, I don't see how it would have been any different with Vancouver. If anything he should have been more motivated going to Florida with plenty of opportunity. Either way, he would have been absolutely superb to make the team. As the bolded had all come off of career seasons, and I'm sure you remember how AV would always take the Vets he trusted over the rookies. Daniel - Henrik - Burrows Raymond - Kesler - Sammuelsson On top of that there was no room on the third line, as Malhotra and Torres had been brought in aswell After watching our defense get absolutely decemated, getting a top 4 Dman like Ballard at the time was a much better move than putting Grabner on waviers. Thats why I find the Grabner whining moot, he really didn't have a future with our team. Wow. That's great logic. The point is that Gillis made the wrong call on Grabner. He traded him. Grabner then went on to be a Calder nominee. He's now leading the Islanders in scoring. How you can say that Gillis made the right move is beyond me. The fact that Gillis was so wrong in his assessment of Grabner is what we are talking about. Not what line changes would have needed to happen to keep him. Grabner became a Calder nominated player the season after Gillis gave up on him. That is the wrong call on a player - not the right call. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longsuffering Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Yes, secondary scoring is huge problem but what has been a more glaring problem this season so far is our defensive end play. We have been constantly checked off the puck causing frequent turnovers and glaring give-aways. While we pressured up ice much better we have handed too many gift goals to other teams. (Before you say it....yes I was at the games) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Wow. That's great logic. The point is that Gillis made the wrong call on Grabner. He traded him. Grabner then went on to be a Calder nominee. He's now leading the Islanders in scoring. How you can say that Gillis made the right move is beyond me. The fact that Gillis was so wrong in his assessment of Grabner is what we are talking about. Not what line changes would have needed to happen to keep him. Grabner became a Calder nominated player the season after Gillis gave up on him. That is the wrong call on a player - not the right call. Wow. Grabner was subsequently waived by Florida. That's how he wound up on the Isles. SK's point wasn't that Grabner didn't turn out to be a good scoring forward - a couple of teams removed - it was that the team needed a top 4 blueliner at the time - something that Ballard, despite his struggles here, had proven to be - he's putting the trade in context and showing that Grabner didn't really fit into the lineup at the time and hadn't earned a spot. If you want a top 4 blueliner, you can generally expect to give up a prospect with top 6 potential, +, in a deal. The irony imo is that the Canucks have easily gotten the best of Florida over the years, before and during the Gillis era. In that deal, often mourned over as the worst deal Vancouver has ever made with Florida, they got a guy they waived, a pick the Canucks didn't want and who hasn't scored a point in the NHL, and the player endlessly esteemed around here, Steve Bernier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thema Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Ex: the Sturm signing..yepp that's our GM. I laughed; yup those 7 games Sturm played for us two years ago really screwed us up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinarama Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 booth for a bag of pucks and a used sher wood stick, and the sedins for hall and a 1st in 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 if your trading the sedins we will be picking first overall in 14 and 15..no need to acquire another first round pick, lol. Advocating tanking, which is why I am replying to you, with a contender group of players is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. It is 6 games in folks, chill out and whatever your smoking, either stop it, or smoke more of it...get out of the place your in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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