nuck nit Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 25 years old, 8 NHL games, and nothing to note since. Huge loss for the Canucks and definitely worth whining about years later. 8 games is the time they evaluated Shirokov at the NHL level. Canucks fans should know this script after the mismanagement of both Grabner and Co Ho. Shirokov is the captain of the KHL's CSKA (Famously know as the Russian Red Army team) and has led the team in scoring - twice. Shirokov may not have been the most talented Russian to come over and adapt to another culture and country and language on his own but he gave it his best shot and will forever be a Canuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austy Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 It's a huge shame we didn't see shirokov in the pre season that year. He was one I was pretty excited about seeing after those few games he played up here I thought he was pretty decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 This is sort of on topic; musing and meditations on the subject anyway? It would be a shame if the Twins may go their entire (superb) careers without ever being flanked by a premium all star winger! - If the Twins never win a cup; when the retire and are sipping swedish coffee overlooking a fjord somewhere, as polite and classy as they are they will cuss where nobody else can hear about the GM's who never offered them that support! After 8 or 9 years of seeing arguments against it; until said premium winger appears, we also have a gaggle of above average depth scorers who should ask that we split the Twins more often. Only Burrows has had his game regularly uplifted. Hell, Kesler is a premium all star forward? And begging for a play making / puck control forward to play with. Higgins, Hansen, Booth, possibly Kassian and Santorelli are guys that could put up 30 goals or more given the right opportunities. We have had only a period and half this year experimenting with this, and the results looked promising! Both these concepts, 1 by the GM and the other by the coach, could be addressed pretty easily with a shift in thinking. And we might start scoring more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 The Canucks don't have a top 6.They have a top 11. Too much scoring for one lineup. Add in 4 top 4 blueliners who can score like 2nd line forwards and you have sheer offensive potency! 2nd last in scoring in the Pacific Division in scoring. 2nd last in the Pacific Division standings. 2nd worst in the Western Conference in goals against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papayas Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 2nd last in scoring in the Pacific Division in scoring. 2nd last in the Pacific Division standings. 2nd worst in the Western Conference in goals against. ffs it's 6 games into the season in oct where Matt cooke is leading the Pits in scoring. Every freaking year you will show up and troll the team and this forum. It's getting really sickening and tiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Yup. The Canucks don't have a top 6. They have a top 11. Sedins Burrows Kesler Booth Higgins Hansen Kassian Schroeder Santorelli Jensen One prototypical bottom six center: Richardson Too much scoring for one lineup. Add in 4 top 4 blueliners who can score like 2nd line forwards and you have sheer offensive potency! Only one of those guys ever plays with accredited puck control / play making stalwarts though. There are a lot of guys who are hoping Schroeder learns how to grab a bull by the horns and grabs a golden opportunity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 8 games is the time they evaluated Shirokov at the NHL level. Canucks fans should know this script after the mismanagement of both Grabner and Co Ho. Shirokov is the captain of the KHL's CSKA (Famously know as the Russian Red Army team) and has led the team in scoring - twice. Shirokov may not have been the most talented Russian to come over and adapt to another culture and country and language on his own but he gave it his best shot and will forever be a Canuck. You are either slanting or missing the point nucknit. Shirokov decided to sign a three year deal to go back to CKSA - on the first day of free agency - July 1st, 2011. The Canucks dealt (what were essentially) his future rights - if he decided to return to the NHL - nine days later on July 9th, 2011. prana can whine about this being a terrible deal - Shirokov, "our top scorer" - who has not played in nor scored an NHL goal since - for mere RFA Mike Duco - but that is another story entirely devoid of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 ffs it's 6 games into the season in oct where Matt cooke is leading the Pits in scoring. Every freaking year you will show up and troll the team and this forum. It's getting really sickening and tiring. Sorry ,but you are confused. What don't you understand about facts? Suck it up sunshine because it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 2nd last in scoring in the Pacific Division in scoring. 2nd last in the Pacific Division standings. 2nd worst in the Western Conference in goals against. I like your sense of humour nucknit. Here's the Canucks record on this day two years agon when they won the PT... http://dropyourgloves.com/Games/AnyDateStandings.aspx?League=1&Date=2011-10-14 1 win, 3 losses, 4th most goals allowed in the NHL. the year before when they lost in the SCF... http://dropyourgloves.com/Games/AnyDateStandings.aspx?League=1&Date=2010-10-16 1 win, 3 losses, 2nd least goals scored in the NHL. Last year they were 2 and 4 after 6 games. Things are looking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 The Canucks score 14 goals in three games....OMG, look at the obvious fail that was AV! This team can score at will under Torts! The Canucks score 1 goal against SJ and have one of those nights against Montreal... and they have no secondary scoring. Add to that the delusion around here that every team not called the Vancouver Canucks score more than they actually do - in reality - and you have the makings of the typical passing raincloud. The average NHL 2nd line center scores 47 points - the average 2nd line winger 37. Have another look at all the "3rd liners" on the roster (ie "everyone not named Sedin") - and then give your heads a shake. We have slipped from a perch where we had a year, perhaps two as the premium offensive team in the league. Three key reasons, all personnel based; 1) We don't quite have the stud defensive 3rd line which awards us extra possessions. 2) Our transition game is not as good without Erhoff. 3) Samuelsson's passing and puck control (under rated) and Raymonds speed no longer flank Kesler. Where are we in overall scoring? I would guess middle of the pack at best without looking, and above middle of the pack but not great last year, a bit better the year before. A few tweaks could help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Maybe the real problem is fans unrealistic expectations of him. Comparing him to Bertuzzi off the bat, and using Smyl as a measuring stick for where he should be at are pretty unrealistic. Since when does a player automatically have to reach their potential at age 23? There's lots of players who were picked higher and are more hyped up than Kassian who are 23 and still haven't reached their potential. Again, it's about patience. Lots of powerforwards, including Bertuzzi, were lazy 4th liners who could barely stay in the lineup at age 23. Nobody should be giving up at this stage. Chris Stewart is rewarding St Louis's patience right now. But there is room to argue in having more veteran support interim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I would concentrate on goals scored,PP goals scored and final,overall standings. The Canucks have been gifted with being in the weakest division in the NHL for Gillis' entire tenure as GM. Last year: The Canucks finished 7th in the entire Western Conference in goals scored. Only Minnesota had less goals scored against them in the WC that made the playoffs. The Canucks were seventh of the eight teams that qualified. Out of the entire 30 team league the Canucks finished 19th in goals scored. Out of the entire 30 team league the Canucks finished 19th in goals against. In 2010-2011 the Canucks were first in the league in goals scored. In 2010-2011 the Canucks were first in the league in goals against. I would do the 2011-2012 GF/GA and all the PP goals for these years but I have done them before. This team went from first place in the league to the bottom 1/3rd in two years time. This is the thread regarding 'secondary scoring lacking,after all. I need a papaya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 We have slipped from a perch where we had a year, perhaps two as the premium offensive team in the league. Three key reasons, all personnel based; 1) We don't quite have the stud defensive 3rd line which awards us extra possessions. 2) Our transition game is not as good without Erhoff. 3) Samuelsson's passing and puck control (under rated) and Raymonds speed no longer flank Kesler. Where are we in overall scoring? I would guess middle of the pack at best without looking, and above middle of the pack but not great last year, a bit better the year before. A few tweaks could help? 1) Higgins and Hansen are as studly as third lines get - and are the same two guys who helped propel this team to a top scoring team - 40 point players on the 3rd liner is exceptional production. What they don't have is a 57% faceoff guy on the fourth line - but there are two guys with that kind of faceoff proficiency still on the UFA market - and two other centers already on the roster who I wouldn't trade for Lapierre. Richardson Steckel Santorelli or Richardson Smithson Santorelli imo could be as good a fourth line as this team has ever had. Higgins Schroeder Hansen also has the ability to be as good a third line as this team has ever had. Raffi Torres continues to be one of the most over lamented players in Canucks lore (as are all the other former Canucks that should all still be here) - and yet for all the talk of lost secondary scoring, Torres scored 14 goals and 29 points here in 80 games - while Higgins who replaced him at 3LW had 18 goals and 43 points in 71 games and was at a 20 goal pace last year - and that is his production while dealing with infections that caused him to lose 12 pounds in the midst of that production. Higgins is an upgrade to the scoring depth, Hansen has steadily improved his offensive production. 2) I'd take Garrison over Ehrhoff anyday - score from the point as opposed to the rush - a far superior defensive blueliner. Ehrhoff is one of the more over-rated nostalgia cases on CDC. Not having Salo makes a difference - he was the best '5th' man in the NHL - but at the same time, imo the combination of an improving Tanev and Stanton has the potential to be as good as the Ballard/Rome pairing that the Canucks had prior to the cap drop - which people tend to forget took place. 3) Raymond broke his back, Booth blew out his knee, etc. Kesler went from scoring 41 goals to the curse of Jeff O'Neill, hobbling and scoring 22, squeezing his stick, trying to force his production and generally never satisfying those 'beast mode' expectations. Yeah a tweak or two would be nice - but a fourth line upgrade isn't what all the complaining on CDC revolves around. Adding a top 6 forward is not only a cap space pipe dream, but it also contradicts what oh so much of the complaining around here is based upon - the idea of a young player or two getting a shot to develop and produce on this roster. I'm fine with taking a chance on Schroder, Kassian and possibly Jensen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Kane Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Hodgson didn't even make the team that year. There was no room on our roster for him. He would have been waived & lost, especially after the poor camp he had, if he couldn't make Florida he wouldn't have cracked our roster. He had a bad camp with Florida, I don't see how it would have been any different with Vancouver. If anything he should have been more motivated going to Florida with plenty of opportunity. Either way, he would have been absolutely superb to make the team. As the bolded had all come off of career seasons, and I'm sure you remember how AV would always take the Vets he trusted over the rookies. Daniel - Henrik - Burrows Raymond - Kesler - Sammuelsson On top of that there was no room on the third line, as Malhotra and Torres had been brought in aswell After watching our defense get absolutely decemated, getting a top 4 Dman like Ballard at the time was a much better move than putting Grabner on waviers. Thats why I find the Grabner whining moot, he really didn't have a future with our team. Again, your guess is good as mine. Some players would like to stay in Vancouver rather then Florida, regardless of "opportunity". Large hockey market, team that drafted you... one of the top teams in the West. It's a shame we let him go, before he his full stride (just like Hodgson) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Hands down... best comment ever,,, you actually spent time to type that? It was pretty good. Try to lighten up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I would concentrate on goals scored,PP goals scored and final,overall standings. The Canucks have been gifted with being in the weakest division in the NHL for Gillis' entire tenure as GM. That's a red herring - that often repeated myth, that the Canucks have been propped up by being in their division, doesn't stand up at all under analysis. The Canucks have dominated every single division in the NHL - not just the NW - their winning percentages against the former Pacific, Central and the Eastern Conference were dominant. In 2010/11 they were 12-5-3 vs the Central, 13-5-2 vs the Pacific and 11-5-2 vs the Eastern Conference. In 2011/12 they were 11-6-3 vs the Central, 11-5-4 vs the Pacific and 11-6-1 vs the East. Last year, even in their decline lol, they were 9-2-4 vs the Central, the best division in the NHL including St Louis, Chicago, Detroit, Columbus and Nashville - in a season without a second line for the most part. AV sure was a crapty coach! They were 6-7- 2 vs the Pacific - the only instance in Gillis' tenure that the team had a losing record against any other division or the Eastern conference. 84-41-18 vs everyone other than the NW under MIke Gillis. Do the math. By my calculations, that makes 186 points in 143 games or what translates into an average of 107 points per 82 games against teams not in the Northwest division. And down goes the NW crutch myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Do the math. And down goes the NW crutch myth. The Canucks have fallen from 1st overall to the bottom third in goals for and against in just two years. 2012-2013:Out of the entire 30 team league the Canucks finished 19th in goals scored. 2012-2013:Out of the entire 30 team league the Canucks finished 19th in goals against. In 2010-2011 the Canucks were first in the league in goals scored. In 2010-2011 the Canucks were first in the league in goals against. Last year: The Canucks finished 7th in the entire Western Conference in goals scored. Only Minnesota had less goals scored against them in the WC that made the playoffs. The Canucks were seventh of the eight teams that qualified in GA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 The Canucks have fallen from 1st overall to the bottom third in goals for and against in just two years. 2012-2013:Out of the entire 30 team league the Canucks finished 19th in goals scored. 2012-2013:Out of the entire 30 team league the Canucks finished 19th in goals against. In 2010-2011 the Canucks were first in the league in goals scored. In 2010-2011 the Canucks were first in the league in goals against. Last year: The Canucks finished 7th in the entire Western Conference in goals scored. Only Minnesota had less goals scored against them in the WC that made the playoffs. The Canucks were seventh of the eight teams that qualified in GA. Does any of that have anything to do with being in the Northwest division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Our 3rd pairing of Stanton and Tanev have more points than our entire 2nd line. Pathetic. Kesler has 1 goal on a shocking goalie and the worst +/- on the team. He has been our worst player. Higgins has done next to nothing so far. Hansen has scored two gimmie goals off great Sedin plays. For whatever reason, these 3 hard-working grinders aren't producing much offence. I'm chalking it up to a new coach not yet understanding how to get the most out of his players, but in a month or two time if they aren't scoring like 2nd liners we need a serious shake-up, whether it be a trade or calling up some AHLers like Jensen/Ferriero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whcanuck Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 In Gillis' eyes, he has already made his 'bold' move (Horvat) so don't expect a top 6 trade anytime soon ....... Gillis Gillis will be canned if the team has a hard time this year. Francesco has next to no patience for losing hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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