DeNiro Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 re the bolded area 1. he has 1 pt and is paid 5 milllion 2. see number 1 3. he is a minus 5 his stats disagree with your 'playing fine' assessment. you then suggest he needs to make more plays, drive the net etc..that suggests as well, that he is not playing fine... +/- is the most meaningless stat there is. They said on HNIC that 4 of the 5 goals Kesler was scored against he had literally just stepped on the ice. Means nothing. Centers can do alot of other important things when they're not scoring. Like winning faceoffs, blocking shots, and shutting down other players. Kesler has been doing all of those things if fans would stop and notice. The points will come in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortalis Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 The reason we are not winning is exactly what the title of this topic is. Dalpe, Sestito, Weise, Kassian: Completely useless. Booth, Richardson, Weber.... Potential... but still mostly useless. Edler, Garrison, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Hansen, Higgins, Burrows.... Have a ton of heart, and have shown spurts of greatness, are too streaky. Kesler.... needs a serious fire lit under his ass. Sedins.... Need to start shooting more. Not enough skill around them to keep passing the puck away.... especially when they have a clean shot and they don't take it. This team has put plugs in the 3rd and 4th lines for eons. If our top line isn't clicking, we lose. We are seriously lacking a true goal scorer. Kesler's 41 goals in 2011 were an anomaly. That season and the Nashville series are the only times Kesler has shown his full capabilities. Which leads me to believe he is not the player we all hoped he would stay being. He doesn't utilize the wingers he is given, no matter who they are. A great player will make things happen regardless who is on his line. The Sedins can only do so much, with their revolving door of wingers as well. To top it off, we now don't even have Schneider to pop in goal when Luongo has an off night. No disrespect to Lack, but he is not close to Cory's talent. I know it is one thing to be an armchair GM and no I don't think I would ever do any better than what Gillis is doing. I am just telling it like it is from a long-time fan who is honest about what he sees going on down on the ice. I just hope we are up to our usual October mediocrity and I will eat my words, but I really don't think I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Kesler: He is capable of scoring 30+ goals when everything goes well... and guess what, when he has consistent wingers who can help make plays he has this potential. that means, fyi: he plays on the power play and has DS and HS to help set him up / get pucks to the net. By himself on the 2nd line, he is a 15-20 goal scorer. If we could get a real top-6 player to play with him (Schroeder might be it?) then he could be 20+, 30+ if he is playing with a superstar. Only option for 2nd line scoring right now is to put DS on the second line. Gets Kesler to the 30+ goal level, doesn't hurt the 1st line. I'm not saying permanently, but mix it up for frack sakes... DS and HS are too predictable against top defenders right now. And they can produce just as well apart. powerplay leave them together, etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Except it's actually not a very good post at all... First of all, only being able to count on Kesler for 20-25 goals? That's actually a very good output for a second line center who is used in alot of defensive situations. It would put him up there with the best second line centers in the league. People always rag on Kesler when he doesn't score and completely ignore all the great things he does. Like going 70% in the faceoff circle, or blocking 5 shots, or having 9 shots on goal. He's actually playing better than people give him credit for, but unfortunately the average fan can't look past simple stats. You describe a very good 3rd line center. A defensive specialist who can score 20-25 goals. Which is what Kesler could become. Yes he's a good player, but that goal production is no where near the expectations his salary demand of him. Also funny how fans keep calling Schneider a Vezina candidate as if he's already been nominated. Just a case of fans overhyping their own players again. He's a great young goalie, but he hasn't one anything yet, and is not guaranteed to either. I did say a budding Vezina trophy candidate. Not a definite winner. But anyone who watches a lot of hockey can see with their own eyes his potential. Not just his talent stopping pucks, but his demeanor and mental strength as well. And no one knows how contract talks between Gillis and Tanev went, so you can't really comment. He could have been asking for too much on a long term deal that wouldn't fit under our cap this year. This is Tanev's "prove you're worth it" season, and I have nothing wrong with that. If he plays like a "premiere defensive defenseman" then he'll have earned it. If not, then at least we're not stuck with another over-priced contract. Yes "If he plays like a "premiere defensive defenseman" then he'll have earned it". But what separates the great GMs from the mediocre is their ability to recognize those qualities BEFORE he has reached unsignable heights. Talk about "wouldn't fit under our cap"! Sign him when you can fit him, not after. He is one of those rare players that a GM should even over-pay if he has to early on, because it will only bite him in the butt later on when the player catches up and surpasses his salary peers in the league. And finally, Booth was injured and could not be bought out. Ignoring the facts. my mistake. I had thought Booth just made it back out of injury before the buy-out window closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Which is it? He is either playing like we pay him to.. or he is not? A player not producing?? Might as well have me on the ice.. PS I come a lot cheaper Except I wouldn't have any trust in your ability to shutdown the leagues top offensive players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16ToWin Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Except I wouldn't have any trust in your ability to shutdown the leagues top offensive players. And... and.. that is why they don't pay me!!! Good thing you are pretty, cuz you sure are d..m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Kesler is a defensive specialist with offensive upside. Perfect for a third line role on a contending team. He is overpaid for the role he plays. Continuing to expect him to lead our secondary scoring is undermining the team's potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckRow Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 This has been glaring for two years! I've repeated myself over and over. Now it's just catching up to the team and managements safe style of running this team, most of the time. It's just the captain going down with his ship now. There were guys available i.e. Ryan, Seguin, Eriksson, Brunner, etc. It's obviously easier said than done but we have had the pieces to do these things but instead we used them for a chance for success when current management wont even be present. Just super disappointing to see this staff to what it has when there was so much potential to keep it going with it's pieces. Were going to need a lot of luck now to get more pieces somehow, or just be patient and wait for years to come with younger players coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16ToWin Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Kesler is a defensive specialist with offensive upside. Perfect for a third line role on a contending team. He is overpaid for the role he plays. Continuing to expect him to lead our secondary scoring is undermining the team's potential. Have we lowered the bar when it come to a SPECIALIST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley2051 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 This has been glaring for two years! I've repeated myself over and over. Now it's just catching up to the team and managements safe style of running this team, most of the time. It's just the captain going down with his ship now. There were guys available i.e. Ryan, Seguin, Eriksson, Brunner, etc. It's obviously easier said than done but we have had the pieces to do these things but instead we used them for a chance for success when current management wont even be present. Just super disappointing to see this staff to what it has when there was so much potential to keep it going with it's pieces. Were going to need a lot of luck now to get more pieces somehow, or just be patient and wait for years to come with younger players coming up. Absolutely, Dallas was right in acquiring Seguin and Peverley, but I'd really would have loved Eriksson here, an all Swedish top line haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prana16 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 LOL? Facts are the biggest load of croc sheet you;ve ever seen? You're a joke. Facts Grabner Showed up to camp out of shape. Wasn't playing to expectations Was lazy with his plays Traded to Florida Florida had same issues and placed him on waivers Was picked up off waivers by NYI Played good for NYI Raymond Disappeared in the play-offs "Blew a tire" every game Wasn't performing up to expectations Never had room to skate Eastern Conference style of hockey allows skaters more room. Wasn't going to fit in our cap space Hodgson Was causing locker room issues Was demanding ice time from coach Had his dad demand things Is caused/has caused issues in Buffalo Is a pre-madonna cdubuya Talks out his croc sheet hole uh wasn't grabner traded at the draft? Yes he was.. that was after being called up in april.. notching a hat trick staying with the team through the playoffs where he scored and looked like one of our most dangerous players most nights.... then after that end of the year call up performance he was traded at the draft. LOOOOOOOOng before training camp. Your delusions about Hodgson have already been addressed.. Nice FACTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 People could stand to wipe the dung off their goggles around here. Kassian plays his first game, a 4-1 loss in which he's an even 0, throws a hit (nails Subban right after he runs Richardson), blocks a shot, has a takeaway, 1 shot on goal, commits no giveaways, plays 12ish minutes and has a generally neutral if not positive showing playing with Richardson (1 hit) and Booth (1 giveaway), and that's about all it takes for people to come on here and complain that he's 'useless'. mmmmm. k. Likewise where all the derpy prejudgements of Dalpe are concerned. Young guy has been playing 4-5 minutes a night, with a paltry 25% offensive zone starts, not the strongest of linemates wadr, is a mere -1 - but the hasty mopers in the fanbase can't help themselves. At least the whining has entertainment value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Have we lowered the bar when it come to a SPECIALIST No. Kesler is/can be a premier defensive specialist. He didn't win the Selke for nothing. That's part of the problem his role as the counted-on secondary lead scorer is confusing even him I suspect. He got to 41 goals when his game WAS defensive orientated. Like Burrows, his offense came out and developed as a result of frustrating and confusing the opposition into turnovers and chances at the other end. That's where it should start with him. He could be a bonafied 3rd line elite center OR if he wants to evolve into more of an offensive threat he'd be better as a 2nd line winger. I'd have liked to have seen what a Higgins/Hansen - Hodgson - Kesler 2nd line would have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 +100 Thanks Deb, I plus you too. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prana16 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 how do you pay for cody if he is here right now instead of zack? why can't people like you get this? you stop paying booth 4 million to be an ineffective 3rd liner by trading him for something or waiving him. then you use that money to resign the 2C that you drafted that has been on a elc for the last number of years.. then you take a mulligan on paying your 3c 5 million by saying.. well he's a really really good 3c and has won a selke. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prana16 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 People could stand to wipe the dung off their goggles around here. Kassian plays his first game, a 4-1 loss in which he's an even 0, throws a hit (nails Subban right after he runs Richardson), blocks a shot, has a takeaway, 1 shot on goal, commits no giveaways, plays 12ish minutes and has a generally neutral if not positive showing playing with Richardson (1 hit) and Booth (1 giveaway), and that's about all it takes for people to come on here and complain that he's 'useless'. mmmmm. k. Likewise where all the derpy prejudgements of Dalpe are concerned. Young guy has been playing 4-5 minutes a night, with a paltry 25% offensive zone starts, not the strongest of linemates wadr, is a mere -1 - but the hasty mopers in the fanbase can't help themselves. At least the whining has entertainment value. Wasn't the whole reason Hodgson had good numbers when he was here because he was playing "protected" on the third line with the same type of linemates Dalpe has.. People were penciling Dalpe in as the fracking second line center.. you wanna talk about derpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Why are we not giving a healthy booth some time to see what he brings? before injuries he was on pace for 42 points in his first year here, now he is finally healthy and you want to trade or waive him to clear cap? he has the same number of goals so far this year as Cody Hodgson does. Lets give him a mo to slot in and get in the mix..if he isn't any better off after 20 I could listen to the argument about ridding him from the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Wasn't the whole reason Hodgson had good numbers when he was here because he was playing "protected" on the third line with the same type of linemates Dalpe has.. People were penciling Dalpe in as the fracking second line center.. you wanna talk about derpy. I see you decided to add to the wave of derpery. Your grasp of the facts are hopelessly weak. Dalpe is playing with Sestito and Weber/Weise on the fourth line - with 25% offensive zone starts and has played about 20 minutes for this franchise. Hodgson was playing with a pair of two-way, 40 pt wingers with all the favourable situational matchups and offensive zone starts (over 50%) that be could provided. But thanks for sharing yet more of your obsession with Hodgson - just what CDC is lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prana16 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Why are we not giving a healthy booth some time to see what he brings? before injuries he was on pace for 42 points in his first year here, now he is finally healthy and you want to trade or waive him to clear cap? he has the same number of goals so far this year as Cody Hodgson does. Lets give him a mo to slot in and get in the mix..if he isn't any better off after 20 I could listen to the argument about ridding him from the team. Why are we not giving a healthy booth some time to see what he brings? before injuries he was on pace for 42 points in his first year here, now he is finally healthy and you want to trade or waive him to clear cap? he has the same number of goals so far this year as Cody Hodgson does. Lets give him a mo to slot in and get in the mix..if he isn't any better off after 20 I could listen to the argument about ridding him from the team. There is nothing to believe things will be different in 20 games any more than they have been in the past 2 years with booth or kesler... And we were talking about the trade and how to afford Hodgson going forward.. Hodgson >>>>> Booth Hodgson >>>>> Kassian Hodgson is likely the better player then kesler going forward as well.. he is certainly the better offensive playmaking top 6 center RIGHT NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Well, it has been good reading all the various opinions in this thread, happy turkey day to all, and I will probably be back later to catch up. Lets remember that we all share a love of the Canucks and that is why we are here, no need to cut each others bellies open today about our vastly different ideas. I say fire AV, you say potato. You say fire Gillis, I say patato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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