Gillis silent while Canucks need him most (Bold moves my ass)

[metroneck]

Ignoring his smug personality, Gillis is just an average GM. 50% of the time he will do something good.

His has made 2 critical errors. The two major trades he has made brought back the wrong type of return for the team's situation (a team that was one key piece away).

I'll accept that Hodgeson 'had' to go. I'll grant him that Kassian was a good prospect, but at that time, the team needed an impact player that was ready to play.

Same goes for Horvat. I really like the kid, but he is not going to peak before the current core is close to done.

What he has now is a team in the middle.

[-DLC-]

That's fine Deb. I know your intentions aren't evil or anything. But If I hadn't called you out on this thread it would have been locked by you too.

Btw, not all my threads were redundant. Actually some of my threads were really well thought out and were not being discussed on this site at all. But you locked them with no justification whatsoever.

You are calling my threads redundant but in truth you don't even remember them at this time.

You are a Gillis defender whether you admit it or not and the posts you lock usually show that. If it is a positive thread about Gillis it survives. If it is a well thought critical post about Gillis it usually gets locked and usually by you.

My God, let it go. AGAIN, this is your chance to discuss the topic at hand....you don't need a thread with your name on it and a gold star to do so...if you really want to discuss this issue, have at'er. I've seen little of that and more of this garbage so, DO you have anything to add to the topic at hand? If not, time to move on.

Last (unofficial) warning before we'll take this to P/M. Giving you plenty of opportunity here and, ftr, I don't have to "remember" your threads...there are records of them.

You're completely off topic and derailing the thread. If you have an issue with me, shoot me a P/M and we'll discuss it without having to interupt the thread that is generating some good discussion. This is for hockey talk and you're doing little more than whining. So move on, as suggested earlier.

[Bren Mo]

I think he is comfortable with making the playoffs and having a realistic chance to win a round or two. If he can do that every year his job is probably safe as the Canucks make good $ on those tickets and it keeps the fan base excited.

He probably thinks If he starts taking chances and they don't work and the team misses the playoffs as a result, that he might get fired. Now if you look at his deals, they usually don't work out so he is probably thinking "let's just stay put and don't do anything because I'm 90% the team will get in the playoffs anyways"

[Maginator]

Couldn't agree more with this post.

For the last 2 seasons we knew that an extra piece to the team was missing. This problem should have been resolved after 2011.. Look at the Bruins this offseason, lose the cup and aren't afraid to make big changes that actually benefit the team. Quite frankly I don't think Gillis is the guy here. He just doesn't have the balls of an NHL gm.

[vv2]

Couldn't agree more with this post.

For the last 2 seasons we knew that an extra piece to the team was missing. This problem should have been resolved after 2011.. Look at the Bruins this offseason, lose the cup and aren't afraid to make big changes that actually benefit the team. Quite frankly I don't think Gillis is the guy here. He just doesn't have the balls of an NHL gm.

Bruins trading Seguin didn't benefit the Bruins.

[elvis15]

Your post is likely to be locked by Deb though because she is a Gillis lover.

...

Or because there are other Gillis threads almost constantly?

From January so far:

[Report] Gillis Says Canucks Are Not Interested in Rental

Mike Gillis's downfall was trusting the wrong person

Mike gillis on team1040

My God, let it go. AGAIN, this is your chance to discuss the topic at hand....you don't need a thread with your name on it and a gold star to do so...

So move on, as suggested earlier.

As for the topic at hand, people think it's easy being an NHL GM and Gillis should be able to pick up a top 6 piece that will be effective and fit in with our team chemistry while not giving up anything. Well the only way that happens is picking up value players like Santorelli (who's ahead of Raymond in points currently in case vcrguy is wondering) and having them fit in and perform well after picking them up for free.

Tanev, Stanton and Lack are freebie pickups. Dalpe and Welsh are depth players but hardly cost us anything. Corrado was a late round pick. Lain and Grenier are actually doing well in Utica. Choose to see the positives and not the negatives.

Gillis is doing well enough with what he has, and when he does make a move (Hodgson and Schneider come to mind, but Grabner as well) people give him grief about it forever after. I'd like to see a change, but I'm not sure how that happens so unless people have a realistic solution they can offer perhaps they shouldn't be so quick to jump on our GM.

Hey, we could have Holmgren.

[elvis15]

Although i would prefer that he be in utica next year, i think another year in london may be a mistake

Again, he's either OHL or NHL. He's still junior eligible.

[elvis15]

10-1-1 over previous 12 games: Board is filled with positivity

0-2-2 over last 4 games: Sky is falling, we'll be competing for Connor McDavid next season

We had 8/23 players out of our lineup after Kassian went down early in the 2nd; $21M in salary ... Playing against the best team in the league ... And we still got a point ...

This board is so bi-polar, it should be committed to the crazy house ...

I went back to read through the thread and expected lots of bi-polar responses, but thankfully there's at least one that's realistic about the reactions around here.

EDIT: and Smashian thankfully was sane and realistic as well. +1's on a few posts.

There were reports after both the Hodgson trade and Schneider trades that other GMs, had they know those players were available, would have offered significant assets. In both cases, GIllis acted out of urgency and impulsively and got less than he likely could have.

Wasnt Detroit rumoured to be hard after Edler in the offseason? Gillis could've traded him before his NTC kicked in and asked for Mantha (before he turned all beast mode in the WJC)...

Oilers rumoured to be in on Schneider is all I heard, and it's understandable why we wouldn't trade to them unless they really overpaid. Detroit was interested in Edler from the reports as well, but they were also reluctant to give up even close to what we were looking for (let alone giving up their 1st as a part of a package) so they weren't that hard after Edler.

I'm not sure what other GM's or significant assets there could have been, but I can't think of any reliable reports off the top of my head. Feel free to share those reports if you have them to give a proper picture of what you're trying to paint.

[DIBdaQUIB]

Offering more isn't the same as offering what's wanted. Gillis said he'd already inquired about the availability of several young power fowards but none of the GM's were willing to trade them at the time. That's the return for Hodgson he was looking for. When one became available he made the deal.

As to Schneider I don't think goalies are getting the return they did even two years ago. There's a lot of good young goalies out there. But a top ten pick in a deep draft is a pretty good return as far as I'm concerned. The odds are heavy on the success side in picking that high. A blue chip is something we needed for the future and I think we got one. A GM can't only look at now, he has to have cheap replacements for the future as well. One of the problems Gillis walked into here.

I have no problem at all with either of those deals as they both addressed a need. Size with offensive potential and a relatively sure thing for the future. Our core isn't getting younger. Some can be replaced from the UFA market but doing so doesn't give you those cheap entry level deals that allow you to add extra.

When Gillis was asking about young Power Forwards, he wasn't offering Cody. Cody being available came as a complete surprise to all the GMs except Buffalo. Big difference!!!

I don't have a problem with him going for younger-long-term prospects per se, but the timing of the Cody negatively deal affected the team just as they were gearing up for a playoff run. Kesler was injured and they traded away a talented center for a project.

IMHO, THE COdy trade was a knee-jerk reaction by GIllis that was poorly thought out and badly timed.

THE Cory trade was a solution to a mess he made by mis-reading the market on LU and painting himself into a corner.

HE has dodged the bullet big time by having Santorelli over-perform and Lack turn out to be much better than could be expected. LUck not skill has kept this team close to being competitive.

[VMR]

This is a tough one, because he is in charge everything falls on him regardless of the market and league wide cap issues. Gone are the days of trying to buy a cup.

However, I agree with most that we need a couple of big moves to shake up this team. Torts was one, as much as AV did here I think his voice was getting old. One can say he did that by trading Cory, in fact it was a big bold move, but I think he needs to do more.

I know we have a ton of injuries, but even fully healthy we need a couple of top players to fill out the lines.

The season is not over yet, I think he knows if something does not change he is gone.

Starting the new year this way sucks.

[DIBdaQUIB]

I'm not sure what other GM's or significant assets there could have been, but I can't think of any reliable reports off the top of my head. Feel free to share those reports if you have them to give a proper picture of what you're trying to paint.

Sorry, don't have access to the "report" but I recall it said that at least 2 GMs were not aware that Cody was available and said they would have offered more. Same for Cory. THe point being, MG seems to get his mind set on a certain course of action and doesn't make the effort to explore all options. Maybe those other GMs wouldn't have offered what MG wanted but if they were never approached about the opportunity of a Cody or Cory, how do you know what may have been possible.

[VMR]

Sorry, don't have access to the "report" but I recall it said that at least 2 GMs were not aware that Cody was available and said they would have offered more. Same for Cory. THe point being, MG seems to get his mind set on a certain course of action and doesn't make the effort to explore all options. Maybe those other GMs wouldn't have offered what MG wanted but if they were never approached about the opportunity of a Cody or Cory, how do you know what may have been possible.

The 28 other GM's will always say they would have done more because they don't have to prove it. I don't disagree with your sentiment however, we maybe could have got more.

[elvis15]

When Gillis was asking about young Power Forwards, he wasn't offering Cody. Cody being available came as a complete surprise to all the GMs except Buffalo. Big difference!!!

I don't have a problem with him going for younger-long-term prospects per se, but the timing of the Cody negatively deal affected the team just as they were gearing up for a playoff run. Kesler was injured and they traded away a talented center for a project.

IMHO, THE COdy trade was a knee-jerk reaction by GIllis that was poorly thought out and badly timed.

THE Cory trade was a solution to a mess he made by mis-reading the market on LU and painting himself into a corner.

HE has dodged the bullet big time by having Santorelli over-perform and Lack turn out to be much better than could be expected. LUck not skill has kept this team close to being competitive.

Sorry, don't have access to the "report" but I recall it said that at least 2 GMs were not aware that Cody was available and said they would have offered more. Same for Cory. THe point being, MG seems to get his mind set on a certain course of action and doesn't make the effort to explore all options. Maybe those other GMs wouldn't have offered what MG wanted but if they were never approached about the opportunity of a Cody or Cory, how do you know what may have been possible.

I haven't seen anything like that, and I'm on here far too much for my own good. I already mentioned Edmonton as the team I heard specifically about for Schneider, but their rumoured offer wasn't markedly better than New Jersey's and at least the Devils are out of the Conference.

But your argument belies your true bias - which is shown by your word choices. To say Hodgson wasn't made available to other teams and came "as a complete surprise to all the GMs except Buffalo" is false since we know Gillis had a number of players he was interested in as a potential return for Hodgson. Clearly he would have checked with those GMs at least about the availability of the players he wanted in return. It's likely even from there that a number of teams outside of Gillis' shortlist would have found out as a result, so I'd think a fair number of NHL GMs would have had fair warning.

The other point to that is if a GM is surprised by a player becoming available despite the obvious rumours that had been floating around for some time with his agent's infamous tweets and blog post, not to mention the possible tension from the back injury and related events, then those GMs frankly are much, much worse than Gillis for not even calling to inquire and make their supposedly better offers.

The Hodgson deal was planned out well in advance with Gillis changing Hodgson's usage to showcase him early on that season, so I have absolutely no idea how that results in a "knee-jerk reaction by GIllis that was poorly thought out and badly timed." There's a possibility that the offers he wanted weren't there and Gillis had to work to get a return like Kassian, so in that case the trade itself could have only come together at the last minute, but clearly Gillis had an idea that he wanted to trade Hodgson and would have thought well in advance about what kind of return he wanted.

You may be able to make a reasonable point, but it looks to me like you're embellishing to make things seem worse and I'm not buying it without some backup.

[elvis15]

Man, I get tired of making these same arguments over and over every time a new thread pops up on the same, redundant subject.

[Hunter.S-Kerouac]

I think Gillis and the Aqua men knew from before the beginning of this season that this isn't our year to make a big push. this is the year to test what we have in a new system see who can adapt to it and who needs to be upgraded upon. In the next 3 years there will be an injection of our prospects. So the core we keep have to be the guys who play as Torts would say "the right way".

so far I doubt we will be seeing Alberts, Edler, Booth and I'm sad to say Hansen. Not because Hansen doesn't play the right way but because I assume the roster spot will be needed and he has trade value.

[Angry Goose]

Gillis has a long list of excuses prepared already. That's what he does.

"Well we had a long list of injuries"

"Well I wasn't prepared to trade the future for rentals"

"There's alot of moving parts when making a trade"

"Well alot of players had off years"

"Well it might take some time to adapt to Torts' system"

Yeah and obviously YOU know how being a GM works right?

ROFL. stick to playing on hockey forums rather than talking about a proffessional position as if you know anything baout the position

[NucksCup2015]

He's used that one the last couple of years off and on.

Jim Nill traded his second best player this past summer, his first as a GM, for a high-end young guy in Seguin.

Assuming the twins are here for the full four years, the only other high quality players that could fetch us young high-end quality in return would be Kes and Edler. I just don't see MG trading Kes either so we're left with Edler, and really after the last couple of years, how high can his value be? Unless Gillis sells his potential.

I agree with this, that is part of the issue, no doubt he can't seem to make a decent trade, but also he now has very little to trade with (also his own fault).

Only way we can make a move is in the off season and I believe the following players need to be kept/or should be available to be moved (many have nmc's or limited nmc's but have to find a way out of that). He can't trade any youth since we don't have enough depth there.

Keep

Forwards:

Sedins (they are still terrific players but now need some support, and actually always have, we've always been a one line team and now that they are slowing to 80pt players the lack of support is showing, they can't carry the team by themselves in the reg season anymore, and never could do it alone in the playoffs).

Kesler - undoubtedly our biggest trade chip but also a great deal of our emotional leadership and heart. Don't think you'd be able to replace that given the lack of that on this team. Too much of a void to fill if moved.

Burrows - value will be down anyways after injuries and a slow start. He is a heart and soul player that if we make it back to a cup is needed, and is a very valuable piece of the leadership and a guy you want teaching the young players.

Kassian - too promising to give up on, seeing more and more flashes this year as his confidence slowly comes about

Hammer

Tanev

Corrado

Stanton

Lack

Other than that, the rest of the team should be fair game (not including our draftees). Guys with the most value will be

Edler

Bieksa

Garrison

Higgins

Lou given cap moves and the fact he is playing very well (not that i'd want him out but if someone says hell its time to get a real goalie for a run, and we have Lack showing he can play, well it may be a win win).

Hansen

This team needs a change of chemistry/makeup. Its hard to do on the front end but on the back end its possible. To be fair, MG did say this was a transition year and he may have been referring to the fact they are saddled with salaries and a lack of available free agents and cap room.

Rid Booth next year, plus hopefully Horvat makes the jump as he does look like he can take on a 3c next year already from watching his World Junior play and hopefully one of Jensen/Shinkaruk surprises as we'd hoped this year, add in a REAL UFA signing and perhaps one move on the back end and we'll be in the running again...this is a tough year for nucks fans folks but we kind of all knew it at the start...this shouldn't be a surprise.

Next year...clearly there will be moves ie

1. If Horvat makes it, clearly we have too many smaller centers - Schroeder, Santo, Richardson.

2. If we sign a real top 6 UFA Santo is no longer on Kesler's wing, where does he go? where does Schroeder go? Richardson is too valuable as a 4c not to keep.

3. If Jensen/Shink show they can play, then what happens with higgins/hansen? One of them will go

4. Booth will be gone

Lets not forget, MG hoped that would happen this year but Jensen got hurt and just isn't ready, try and look at the big picture folks.

1. We are on pace for 100pts, in the toughest division and conference with a TON of injuries, this is not a BAD team

2. Do we need more size and a killer instinct, yes.

3. Do we need a legit top 6 fwd, yes

4. Do we still need a puck moving, offensive dman yes

So while we need a better 'mix', we still have alot of pieces and experience that can get us to a cup...we need to inject some excitement and enthusiasm into the mix, high energy, in your face players (ie lappy without the stupidity) and a guy like shinkaruk and hey....all of a sudden the energy level rises, the team plays bigger.

patience...look at my handle...i am calling it now...our wait will be over 2015...

[CB007]

Man I just want to see a small transaction of some sort to help us out with this injury mess we are in. Waivers? UFA's? 4th liners?Something. Anything!

[Baggins]

When Gillis was asking about young Power Forwards, he wasn't offering Cody. Cody being available came as a complete surprise to all the GMs except Buffalo. Big difference!!!

I don't have a problem with him going for younger-long-term prospects per se, but the timing of the Cody negatively deal affected the team just as they were gearing up for a playoff run. Kesler was injured and they traded away a talented center for a project.

IMHO, THE COdy trade was a knee-jerk reaction by GIllis that was poorly thought out and badly timed.

THE Cory trade was a solution to a mess he made by mis-reading the market on LU and painting himself into a corner.

HE has dodged the bullet big time by having Santorelli over-perform and Lack turn out to be much better than could be expected. LUck not skill has kept this team close to being competitive.

He didn't have to dangle Cody in his previous talks with those six GM's. All six simply said the player Gillis was interested in was untouchable. Power forwards are coveted in the league. Buffalo's situation changed that season with another young power forward breaking out and thus making Kassian expendable. When it comes to trades it's about both sides filling a need. Not just one side. We weren't going to get an established power forward for Cody. Anybody expecting the same skill level coming back has no clue how trades work. So no, I don't see it as a knee-jerk move at all. I see it as trading a player that needed to be moved for exactly what you had been looking for the past year when it became available.

Cody was getting moved by the offseason regardless. It's no secret he wasn't happy with his situation here and with two better options ahead of him that wasn't going to change. He had one more year on his elc to earn a homerun contract and it wouldn't happen here with his ice time and role. I fully expected him to be moved in the offseason but Buffalo wasn't going to wait when they still had a shot at the playoffs.

The timing had everything to do with Buffalo's situation. They were a few wins out of the playoffs and in desperate need of a center to compete for that playoff spot. Kassian was made available. Sometimes you have to deal when what you are looking for is made available. Hodgson wouldn't have saved our playoffs any more than he saved Buffalo's playoff bid. He played himself off Buffalo's second line yet you believe he would have saved our playoffs? That's the simple truth of it.

Either Schneider or Lou needed to be traded. Period. The fact Lou (and his restrictive contract) couldn't be moved for anything of real value meant Schneider had to go. Although I would have preferred keeping Schneider, I think we got a good return for him and still have a good goalie in Lou even if I hate his contract.

Btw, I don't think we got lucky with Lack. He's been a solid prospect and was going to be backup to whoever stayed as the starter.

[Hunter.S-Kerouac]

who is available as GM to be an upgrade don't say LG he's been here and easily could have said ehem MG I don't think that trade is a good idea. does that make him sackless or does it mean he thought it was the right move to be made.

As for the COHO trade I'm so sick of hearing about it. Could a better trade have been made maybe? But you don't win playoff rounds playing him 20 mins a game. Now we have BO HO so I hope we can all get over this and move on.