Ride the red Pony Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 system? I don't see no stinking system. ask yourself this........the team is full of fwds who could score under AV, who are no longer scoring under Torts. The team is also full of d-men who were excellent defenders under AV and are no lonmger those rock solid defenders..........whats the common denominator here? I'm not sure what you're getting at here. If I'm reading between the lines of your rant you are saying that before Torts came we had a great team, with an offense that filled the net and a defense that shut everyone down. I guess with AV we are Stanley Cup champs and under Torts we are lining up for a lottery pick. You make it sound like AV is shining up his cup rings from his run here. There were and still are some issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ride the red Pony Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Well, leading after 3 would mean they won the game, but NHL.com has the stats for leading after 2 periods: http://www.nhl.com/i...cordWhenLeading Here's our record for the past 4 years: 2013/14: 17-3-2 (.773 winning %) 2012/13: 18-2-3 (.783 winning %) 2011/12: 32-1-2 (.914 winning %) 2010/11: 38-0-3 (.927 winning %) So while we've certainly been better, last year was pretty comparable and we've had as many let downs in the two years previous to that (but a much better winning %). Part of that may be AV, or it may be the players were performing better - which they certainly were. I would also have to look at the schedule this year compared to the past, I think we can all agree we are in a much tougher division this year. IMO we need to play the style that Torts is trying to instill to compete in this division. As we have seen in the playoffs the last few years the style of play we relied on just wasn't going to get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Well, leading after 3 would mean they won the game, but NHL.com has the stats for leading after 2 periods: http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20142ALLSAAAll&sort=winPctAfterLead1P&viewName=recordWhenLeading Here's our record for the past 4 years: 2013/14: 17-3-2 (.773 winning %) 2012/13: 18-2-3 (.783 winning %) 2011/12: 32-1-2 (.914 winning %) 2010/11: 38-0-3 (.927 winning %) So while we've certainly been better, last year was pretty comparable and we've had as many let downs in the two years previous to that (but a much better winning %). Part of that may be AV, or it may be the players were performing better - which they certainly were. Thats what I meant lol The players are the same but all of a sudden they aren't performing as good as they did under AV? There is no excuse for the twins decline at 33. Unless they are seriously saving it for the Olympics. Hamhuis under torts has been horrendous imo. Hansen, Kesler, burr... etc. All struggling. Coaching has to be part of it. Hopefully it's not a coaching problem and just a matter of time until they master torts system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Henrik, Santo, Schroeder (Kesler, Kassian...) Puck moving forwards are necessary. If you depend on your blueline to gain entry, you still need your forwards to fill, and they're rarely as effective (not many can skate backwards and defend anywhere near as effectively as an actual blueliner, while the gap between puck moving forwards and defensemen)... Having an effective pmd can be a nice luxury, but still only 1/6 of your blueline and in the end, you need your forwards to be able to gain entries - and the counterpoint to a pmd is that you need two way forwards to prevent them from being a liability ("pmd" tend to be the most prolific giveaway leaders in the NHL), so whether you like it or not, you can't get away from needing two way defensemen and forwards (and the idea that a team can have 'too many' is nonsense). Really, the team just didn't seem to be thinking the game very well last night, and weren't really mixing up their entries well enough, or executing them as a unit. But in terms of pmd, the more Tanev develops, the more the quality of his skating and decision making is evident - when he does decide to rush the puck, he's got some solid skills and distributes the puck well (and his shot is improving as well). I think Corrado likewise has a world of potential in this sense (despite being seen as primarily a shutdown defender) - his skating is exceptional, he is very level headed and makes great decisions - he has the potential, like Tanev to blossom that upside in his game. I think the team and fans will need to have some patience - there are also Tommernes and Subban in the system - otherwise the market for pmd might just be the worst (niche) in the NHL. I know you have this on your shopping list, but a shopping list is one thing (and there are plenty of "pmd" I sure as hell would not want on this blueline), whereas a realistic potential deal is another. Any ideas? We are stacked in two way D, and forwards. A PMD would be the right compliment. Fully agreed the latter is only successful if the former is in place (see Erhof in Buffalo), true. But it is in place I think? Tanev is great. And he has speed, a major asset for closing on the puck and beating forwards to it. But we can't mistake rotating the puck away from pressure with a good pass and someone who can break pressure or make offensive plays adroitly handling the puck. Or add saucer passes and dekes up ice.There is neither the stick or shooting skills. Corrado is similar, less advanced, add's a better shot. Both are potentially important parts of our structure. Remember, I agreed the bones have to be in place first. Neither will ever be our PMD solution though, different skill set. Look for a defenceman that can routinely undress a forward coming at him. Does not matter if its fore-checkers or a guy pressuring the point. And there are offensive instincts you can't teach. Unfortunately, also agreed that most PMD's are normally only traded if they cough it up too much and are too porous defensively. Ballard never had the puck skills, so should have been weeded out even before noticing his poor zone play. Campbell for Lou, a longshot, is one of few possibilities including a veteran. Visnovsky might be a band aid. I think we have to ID prospects who are close, trade some of our depth, and live with them till they develop. And, like Tampa with their goaltending trade for Lindback, we may try one, and move to a second if results are not developing. 4 years from now Subban might be it? Can't wait or leave all our eggs in that basket. I've tossed a few idea's around; Beaulieu and Rundblad are my faves, Orlov came up earlier this year. I'm not sure Smith out of Detroit is quite dexterous enough for what I want? I'd be scouting Elliot out of Colorado and I proposed Barrie / Parenteau for Edler elsewhere. We need this badly, but I'm not sure I see a quick fix. Edit: left out Hutton as a possibility? Never seen him play. Maybe someone could suggest to me where he is at... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taib mahmud Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 They are DONE for the season ! Will be bloody surprised if they even make the p/offs, which they don't deserve to. They have all turned into journeyman players skating around like headless chicken ! I think they all want to be traded out of Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 They are DONE for the season ! Will be bloody surprised if they even make the p/offs, which they don't deserve to. They have all turned into journeyman players skating around like headless chicken ! I think they all want to be traded out of Vancouver. ... glass is half empty eh? It's a long season. These are proven winners you are talking about with pure natural talent. They are in a playoff spot because they've earned it in the hardest division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuckMan Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 ... glass is half empty eh? It's a long season. These are proven winners you are talking about with pure natural talent. They are in a playoff spot because they've earned it in the hardest division. Too bad they're only proven President's Trophy winners and their natural talent is lacking compared to most of the other playoff teams in every category except maybe goaltending. We would be a hell of an Eastern Conference team. They're never as good as they seem and never as bad as they seem, but given a half season of work, they won't make it out of the first round if they make the playoffs at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuckMan Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 They are DONE for the season ! Will be bloody surprised if they even make the p/offs, which they don't deserve to. They have all turned into journeyman players skating around like headless chicken ! I think they all want to be traded out of Vancouver. I figure your use of comic sans is an indication of the seriousness of your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 ... glass is half empty eh? It's a long season. These are proven winners you are talking about with pure natural talent. They are in a playoff spot because they've earned it in the hardest division. They are good players who have won two Presidents trophies and one excellent goalie who won an Olympic gold medal. They haven't earned a playoff spot yet. If they continue to play the passionless, gutless hockey they are now, they'll be golfing at the end of the regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 They are good players who have won two Presidents trophies and one excellent goalie who won an Olympic gold medal. They haven't earned a playoff spot yet. If they continue to play the passionless, gutless hockey they are now, they'll be golfing at the end of the regular season. Yes they have earned a playoff spot. If they hadn't they wouldn't be in a playoff spot in the toughest division EVER in the sport. If anything they should be higher had the refs not stole multiple games. This is a good team. They're battling new systems and injuries. Two president trophies is elite in my books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuckMan Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Yes they have earned a playoff spot. If they hadn't they wouldn't be in a playoff spot in the toughest division EVER in the sport. If anything they should be higher had the refs not stole multiple games. This is a good team. They're battling new systems and injuries. Two president trophies is elite in my books. Those dastardly refs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 It absolutely does add up... Below average offensive talent (not 1 player in top 30) + average D-core (1 IN top 30 production - Garrison) + above average goaltending = middle of the pack team. Good enough to be a factor if they played in the east but far too inept and weak to compete in the west. More concerning than their current placement and stats...their play is deteriorating game by game with the loss to the Oilers the true test of just where this team is at. For fans toe hope that Schroeder and Dalpe, Burrows (even Sestito) can be the answer to the team's offensive struggles, you are in for a world of hurt. The core and vets of this team suck like a Hoover (VanHoover Canucks?)and have been the reason this team has struggled. The kids and supporting cast has for the most part, done its job. The same fans saying this is just a slump and that this is a good team that will turn it around are the same ones that for the past 2 years have been saying "they're saving it for the playoffs" or it's just a matter of time before they turn it around. Face it, without Lu and Cory playing at a level way above average, this team just doesn't have it. Now its Lu and Eddie's turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I would also have to look at the schedule this year compared to the past, I think we can all agree we are in a much tougher division this year. IMO we need to play the style that Torts is trying to instill to compete in this division. As we have seen in the playoffs the last few years the style of play we relied on just wasn't going to get it done. Oh absolutely. It's definitely comparable to last year where we had injuries. We've had injuries this year as well and playing in the tougher division has factored into the team not playing as well. I think we can all agree AVs style was to sit more on a lead where Torts is fine continuing to push (not at the expense of added risk ideally). I don't know that either method has been more successful than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sypher009 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 What a great game by the boys! Our top line with Daniel and Burrows was solid. You can definitely tell how hard they are working. Edler and Garrison are just a beauty pairing causing havoc out there, best d-pair ever. Man sucks to lose and all the blame should go to Luongo, such soft goals and a complete mental breakdown. Overall, great game boys! Bring on Chicago! Can't wait!!! this is the most retarded post i've seen here yet, well done lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roflcawptur Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 They are DONE for the season ! Will be bloody surprised if they even make the p/offs, which they don't deserve to. They have all turned into journeyman players skating around like headless chicken ! I think they all want to be traded out of Vancouver. 3/10 on the trolling attempt. Mainly just for the use of comic sans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Singh Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 They are DONE for the season ! Will be bloody surprised if they even make the p/offs, which they don't deserve to. They have all turned into journeyman players skating around like headless chicken ! I think they all want to be traded out of Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5minutesinthebox Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Can you name any forward on the Canucks who has ever done so? Name one! Just on the team right now....Kesler, Higgins, Bieksa...not sure why a forward having a bounce back is any different than a derfender, or where you simply using that as a way to (poorly) add relevancy to your statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5minutesinthebox Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Outside of Hamhuis, the other defensemen were worse under AV. This team lacks a strong, consistent defense. They still let the opposition have their way in the blue paint. The present d-core won't take any team far. You actually think Edler and Garrison have been better under Torts? uhhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Karlsson Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 this is the most retarded post i've seen here yet, well done lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Yes they have earned a playoff spot. If they hadn't they wouldn't be in a playoff spot in the toughest division EVER in the sport. If anything they should be higher had the refs not stole multiple games. This is a good team. They're battling new systems and injuries. Two president trophies is elite in my books. Winning the Stanley Cup is what ensures a team is elite. Winning a Presidents Trophy and going out in the first round is not. At all. Ever. And while the refs are absolute sh!+e, they have dropped the ball in a lot of games around the league. Overall they are the most glaring deficiency in league operations. Shanahan's utter uselessness as Director of Player Safety comes in a close second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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