dragon4401 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Kes and Hank are both still good and young enough to keep building around. Our wingers are a complete joke, especially with a post Keith-Elbow Danny. Horvat is unlikely to take over for a few years at least, we need to bring in some promising wingmates that can play with our current centers, and our future ones. I would look seriously into Yakupov, he's gonna tear it up next season and on, also a Nucks/Bure fan as a kid. Yak for a bag of pucks? Nobody would waive to that disaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 You would prefer that in 2010 Kesler passed more to Raymond (who couldn't shoot), or to Samuelsson who didn't want to shoot? Okay. And what advantage would be had by passing the puck to a winger who either didn't shoot, or refrained from going to the net? I can't say that Kesler isn't a bit selfish with his choices (on occaision), but if him shooting it himself or trying to split the D is the best option, why shouldn't he do it? I suppose we would then be discussing how he needs to shoot more... regards, G. Because, you keep trying to make it work with your teammates. You don't give up. Your approach is horsecrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfall Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 After weighing what everybody is saying one of these two things should happen: 1) find a top player to play with kesler. Could be a Jeff carter like deal by trading a 1st rounder and a D man. Also I think Lu could fetch this type of player esp if he inflates his value from a sick Olympics run. 2) Trade kesler for two or three top players/assets. Basically the reverse side of the Jeff carter deal. I would much prefer the first option but I don't know if the salary cap math can work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon4401 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 After weighing what everybody is saying one of these two things should happen: 1) find a top player to play with kesler. Could be a Jeff carter like deal by trading a 1st rounder and a D man. Also I think Lu could fetch this type of player esp if he inflates his value from a sick Olympics run. 2) Trade kesler for two or three top players/assets. Basically the reverse side of the Jeff carter deal. I would much prefer the first option but I don't know if the salary cap math can work. We don't have the pieces for #1 and I would pass on #2...IF I traded Kesler it would be for a ready now young player and a prospect/pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksSayEh Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yak for a bag of pucks? Nobody would waive to that disaster It would depend a lot on where each of us end up in the draft. If Oilers are looking to move up for Ek, we may be able to help them with that. Hansen could be moved for a late 1st at the deadline to a top team prob pretty easily, Edler for a package pre-draft as well. Eventually we may be able to amass an offer big enough. If not, we could look to move up ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon4401 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 It would depend a lot on where each of us end up in the draft. If Oilers are looking to move up for Ek, we may be able to help them with that. Hansen could be moved for a late 1st at the deadline to a top team prob pretty easily, Edler for a package pre-draft as well. Eventually we may be able to amass an offer big enough. If not, we could look to move up ourselves. Only way we get ahead of Edmonton is if we win the lottery...and in that case we would draft Reinhart or Ekblad...If Yak wants to come will be as a FA best to let Edmonton continue with their mess without giving them exactly what they need for a player that potentially could bolt to the KHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfall Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 We don't have the pieces for #1 and I would pass on #2...IF I traded Kesler it would be for a ready now young player and a prospect/pick I agree. We should just stand pat this year. Those same people arguing we traded hodgson before the playoffs would argue the same thing if kes was traded at the deadline unless we got Crosby in return. Let's see what the off season will bring. But the worst case scenario would be to not surround kes with talent and trade him when his value is low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I would test the waters, I wouldn't ask him to waive his NTC and I would deny any rumors of him being shopped if they come up but I would quietly see what other GM's would be willing to offer. Based on the general offers I would then evaluate the shape of the team with what would be coming and I would discuss it with Torts and the team scouts. In other words I wouldn't just push him out the door just because but I would pursue moving him if I was confident that the return would give us an edge even if it's simply in a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 You trade a player when the value is high. You trade at the deadline. You don't trade a player when they're on the decline, injuries have taken their toll or the player indicates loudly they want out. Simply put if there is value for Kesler now and a deal is out there that pays what he is worth or the usual deadline over payment. You make that deal. OP in your opening statement you said it the best. Who do we have like Kesler? Bo Horvat. We don't need a two way mentor on a team full of two way players. I hate that fallacy where people say you need a player to teach a player. If said player needed to be taught they wouldn't be a top 10 draft pick. Again, I like Kesler he's a soolid player. But if theres a deal for him and Edler that makes this team 5 goals in game 7 of the SCF better....you pull that trigger and walk away laughing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 kesler isn't going to teach anybody anything. he's not a role model. He can teach players to shoot 1st and try to do it all himself. That way we can have a team full of streaky selfish players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Guys, I heard Philly is still shopping Giroux; why not get him? CDC logic = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Kesler is a deal...not to mention he is a heart and soul guy who can make a difference when it matters most. The only reason to trade Kesler would be if in the last year of his contract, it was apparent he was not going to resign here and we could get an asset. I expect Kes to be here for a while and I hope I am right. That said, a deal you can't refuse is a deal you can't refuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Some of you guys are nuts. Kesler is the best hockey player on the team and a Selke trophy winner. If you surround him with the right guys he's dynamite. If you can only keep one player on this team it's Kesler. He will be a mentor to the younger guys. Give him the c. Good players elevate those around them. They do not need other players to make them good. Good centers pass the puck and get more assists than Kesler. Consistent players do not go 12 games, multiple times a season without a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksSayEh Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Good players elevate those around them. They do not need other players to make them good. Good centers pass the puck and get more assists than Kesler. Consistent players do not go 12 games, multiple times a season without a goal. Kesler is a capable passer, but he is the only player on the team that scores goals, so his assists will suffer. Seriously, Higgins is the only guy with a decent chance of breaking 20g other than Kes. That is pathetic. Elite players can make those around them better, we shouldn't expect that much from Kes. He has some of the worst wingers in the league for a player of his calibre. Both Kanes, Ladd, Marchand, Lupul, Oshie/Schwartz, Neal ect all top 2nd liners while we leave Kes with the Santorellis and Hansens of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon4401 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I agree. We should just stand pat this year. Those same people arguing we traded hodgson before the playoffs would argue the same thing if kes was traded at the deadline unless we got Crosby in return. Let's see what the off season will bring. But the worst case scenario would be to not surround kes with talent and trade him when his value is low. I would of traded Hodgson then also if the backroom bs was true its best to drop those players especially getting a young PWF that we needed...As I said unless its a young impact player I don't move him this year and really only reason I would next year is if he wont resign...He is still a good player that we need just need to get another piece for that top line RW and we would be in a far better position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyAL Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I also blame his wingers, seems every line they put Kesler on has 3 wingers.... those dumb dumbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfall Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I would of traded Hodgson then also if the backroom bs was true its best to drop those players especially getting a young PWF that we needed...As I said unless its a young impact player I don't move him this year and really only reason I would next year is if he wont resign...He is still a good player that we need just need to get another piece for that top line RW and we would be in a far better position I would have squeezed out more for hodgson. Unless Kass becomes much better than Hodgson I feel we traded away 3 years of proven development for a lot of uncertainty. Kass and another everyday roster player or a top draft pick would have been ok. It's basically trading a 2008 10th overall for a 2009 13th overall which if thought of as a draft trade, doesn't really make much sense without at least a 3rd rounder thrown in unless the 10th overall looks like a real bust. I'm hoping that a suitable linemate for kesler will come up in the next few years. In the salary cap world things can change very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theilluminati Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I've seen a couple of posts here that mention if Kesler will or will not re-sign with the Canucks, which brings up an interesting question. What kind of $$$/term will Kesler be looking for from the Canucks and will Gillis give it to him..? Kesler will turn 32 prior to his next (probably last) contract kicking in and if the 34 year old Sedins get $7m for 4 years will Kesler be asking for something like $6.5m a year for 5 years..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon4401 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I would have squeezed out more for hodgson. Unless Kass becomes much better than Hodgson I feel we traded away 3 years of proven development for a lot of uncertainty. Kass and another everyday roster player or a top draft pick would have been ok. It's basically trading a 2008 10th overall for a 2009 13th overall which if thought of as a draft trade, doesn't really make much sense without at least a 3rd rounder thrown in unless the 10th overall looks like a real bust. I'm hoping that a suitable linemate for kesler will come up in the next few years. In the salary cap world things can change very quickly. In hindsight I do it again...to compare players need to not only look at points but hits and fights as well and ontop look at the situations they get...I think we got the better deal And for Kesler we have the pieces to be good for him...Kassian arguably is a top 4 passer on this team so he should be with Kesler and Higgins works well with Kes....We also have Schroeder he in his own right is looking pretty good so another good possible linemate...So it comes down to will Torts start using players properly and to their strengths or continue to run the exact same setup every game that even a blind mouse could see is not working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Good players elevate those around them. They do not need other players to make them good. Good centers pass the puck and get more assists than Kesler. Consistent players do not go 12 games, multiple times a season without a goal. He's been injured in the past, which has affected his overall numbers/performance. We're constantly bashing the team for lack of physicality and we want guys who will drive to the net, etc. Some players pass, some grab the puck and go and Kes is of the latter. I think a mix and some versatility keeps the other guys guessing. Passing is great but if you have a guy willing to dance around/through players and carry the puck, that works too. Passing only is beneficial if a shot is taken and if opportunity is there to take a shot without passing, well, that's ok too. People tend to glom on to catch phrases: one being "Kesler doesn't pass". He's not selfish in that, it's his style of play. Not sure why there's so much criticism over it...pretty damn exciting to watch when it's working. Passing is only part of this game...if everyone passes, that gets figured out and intercepted pretty quickly. I've never understood why everyone is so intent on passing, then we hear the argument that they make it too pretty?? Which cake are we to eat here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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