Chinese-only sign reignites language debate in Richmond, B.C.

[Mr. Ambien]

FFS, did you really turn this into another Left-Right issue?

I would appreciate it if you'd quote my posts correctly next time.

Of 191 words I used in that post, I had written "leftist" 191 times, no idea why you quoted a bunch of other nonsensical words no one cares about.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

You say using one's freedoms to criticize those who exercise their freedom is discrimination (or racism, LOL), what really sounds like discrimination to me, along with a very lopsided view of what freedoms are, is that only one side be able to enjoy their freedoms (yet not have the freedom to take responsibility for the things they do), others be damned. That's not the way it works. I would re-evaluate what freedom really is, along with racism, because you have both of them extremely wrong on this matter.

Please clarify what you're trying to say here.

[Mr. Ambien]

Please clarify what you're trying to say here.

I'm saying it's racist (and just plain hypocritical) to give people special treatment or consideration because of their race, or the ethnicity/culture attached to it.

Canada is a primarily English speaking country, I would not go to China expecting they turn some ambiguous chunk of it into English only and disregard the languages they speak. Rightfully, I'd expect at bare minimum some type of backlash, if not outlawing of it. It's disrespectful.

[Del Rio]

I'm saying it's racist (and just plain hypocritical) to give people special treatment or consideration because of their race, or the ethnicity/culture attached to it.

Canada is a primarily English speaking country, I would not go to China expecting they turn some ambiguous chunk of it into English only and disregard the languages they speak. Rightfully, I'd expect at bare minimum some type of backlash, if not outlawing of it. It's disrespectful.

I am born and raised Canadian and I don't find it disrespectful at all...Why do you?

[CB007]

I understand that they don't follow that philosophy when they move here. Which is I'm complaining about it. I wouldn't move to China and not learn the language and expect to turn it into little Canada.

Funny thing is, you can get by in a major Chinese city without learning Chinese. There isn't enough English speaking white people in even Shanghai to form a physical community like the Chinatowns in North America, but because English is a commonly spoken language by the retail and service sectors in major Chinese cities you will get by just fine.

[Mr. Ambien]

I am born and raised Canadian and I don't find it disrespectful at all...Why do you?

The people that immigrate here, far more often than not, are engaged in social functions because Calgarians appreciate and reciprocate such behaviour (this blends with the economy of Calgary that is more open to accepting foreign credentials whereas the GVA and GTA, just to name two, are very belligerent about "Canadian" education and "Canadian experience" with awful criteria surrounding that -- which is why so many skilled immigrants prefer Calgary than anywhere else in Canada). The GTA and GVA pride themselves on the superficial aspects of simply "having" different ethnic/racial and cultural background that hardly intermingle (which is pretty useless to me and begging for culture clash -- reminds me of when I moved to the US for a while, the same thing afflicts California). Which is why you have such vast towns of foreign ethnic drive that want to put things in a foreign language without any regard for disrespecting the customs of a country they're moving to.

Unfortunately for the GTA and GVA, for them to understand their problem will require introspection, and if there's one thing leftists (that permeate these two regions) are really bad at doing, it's introspection.

[CB007]

The people that immigrate here, far more often than not, are engaged in social functions because Calgarians appreciate and reciprocate such behaviour (this blends with the economy of Calgary that is more open to accepting foreign credentials whereas the GVA and GTA, just to name two, are very belligerent about "Canadian" education and "Canadian experience" with awful criteria surrounding that -- which is why so many skilled immigrants prefer Calgary than anywhere else in Canada). The GTA and GVA pride themselves on the superficial aspects of simply "having" different ethnic/racial and cultural background that hardly intermingle (which is pretty useless to me and begging for culture clash -- reminds me of when I moved to the US for a while, the same thing afflicts California). Which is why you have such vast towns of foreign ethnic drive that want to put things in a foreign language without any regard for disrespecting the customs of a country they're moving to.

Can you prove any of this with any statistical data or is this all your suspicion? There is a lot of intermingling in Toronto, you can be sure of that.

[Totes McGoats]

It's not racist to expect that public advertising at least has english on it.

English is our primary language, and should remain that way. A poster like this undermines everything.

I have no beef with Asian cultures, or any others for that matter. Come on in! I welcome your ethnic and cultural diversity into Canada with open arms. You're my friends, my co-workers and my countrymen. Most people who are English second language, would agree - that this sign is silly.

Nobody is saying not to have a Cantonese sign in Canada... just make sure that you put English, and potentially french on there somewhere.

[TheOgRook]

Can you prove any of this with any statistical data or is this all your suspicion? There is a lot of intermingling in Toronto, you can be sure of that.

Have you never been to Toronto? One of the most segregated cities in Canada (having lived in Calgary,van and Toronto.) People need to realize how much this damages what being canadian is all about.... That melting pot we speak of is not supposed to have roads separating ethnicities. That is why I have moved away from the city. Where I can live on my block with my new immigrant neighbours (China, Philippines) who both speak English ( better everyday ). It's so nice to talk with them, share culture, language and most importantly food We did not move to their country, they moved to ours. Adapt, thrive and live the CANADIAN dream... Not the one of the country you came from.

[theminister]

FFS, did you really turn this into another Left-Right issue?

Because apparently leftists cause ghettos or something.

[Jester13]

The people that immigrate here, far more often than not, are engaged in social functions because Calgarians appreciate and reciprocate such behaviour (this blends with the economy of Calgary that is more open to accepting foreign credentials whereas the GVA and GTA, just to name two, are very belligerent about "Canadian" education and "Canadian experience" with awful criteria surrounding that -- which is why so many skilled immigrants prefer Calgary than anywhere else in Canada). The GTA and GVA pride themselves on the superficial aspects of simply "having" different ethnic/racial and cultural background that hardly intermingle (which is pretty useless to me and begging for culture clash -- reminds me of when I moved to the US for a while, the same thing afflicts California). Which is why you have such vast towns of foreign ethnic drive that want to put things in a foreign language without any regard for disrespecting the customs of a country they're moving to.

Unfortunately for the GTA and GVA, for them to understand their problem will require introspection, and if there's one thing leftists (that permeate these two regions) are really bad at doing, it's introspection.

Citation for all of this nonsense?

[Jester13]

It's not racist to expect that public advertising at least has english on it.

English is our primary language, and should remain that way. A poster like this undermines everything.

I have no beef with Asian cultures, or any others for that matter. Come on in! I welcome your ethnic and cultural diversity into Canada with open arms. You're my friends, my co-workers and my countrymen. Most people who are English second language, would agree - that this sign is silly.

Nobody is saying not to have a Cantonese sign in Canada... just make sure that you put English, and potentially french on there somewhere.

When it has to do with anything government related you will have your wish on the bi-lingual request, however, a private advertisement on a private sign is non of yours or the governments business.

[Mr. Ambien]

It's not racist to expect that public advertising at least has english on it.

English is our primary language, and should remain that way. A poster like this undermines everything.

I have no beef with Asian cultures, or any others for that matter. Come on in! I welcome your ethnic and cultural diversity into Canada with open arms. You're my friends, my co-workers and my countrymen. Most people who are English second language, would agree - that this sign is silly.

Nobody is saying not to have a Cantonese sign in Canada... just make sure that you put English, and potentially french on there somewhere.

Do you have statistics and provable omniscience to back up these claims? Come back when you do.

[CB007]

Have you never been to Toronto? One of the most segregated cities in Canada (having lived in Calgary,van and Toronto.) People need to realize how much this damages what being canadian is all about.... That melting pot we speak of is not supposed to have roads separating ethnicities. That is why I have moved away from the city. Where I can live on my block with my new immigrant neighbours (China, Philippines) who both speak English ( better everyday ). It's so nice to talk with them, share culture, language and most importantly food We did not move to their country, they moved to ours. Adapt, thrive and live the CANADIAN dream... Not the one of the country you came from.

Have you seen my profile page?

Depends on what you mean by 'segregation'... You are free, and in most cases, safe, to live anywhere in the city you want. Just because you see more Chinese living in Chinatown, Italians in Little Italy, Koreans in Korean Town, etc etc, doesn't mean you are somehow excluded from those communities. Of course, a lot of non-Chinese live in Chinatown, etc.

You actually meant they moved to their new country, I'm sure.

[Jester13]

Have you never been to Toronto? One of the most segregated cities in Canada (having lived in Calgary,van and Toronto.) People need to realize how much this damages what being canadian is all about.... That melting pot we speak of is not supposed to have roads separating ethnicities. That is why I have moved away from the city. Where I can live on my block with my new immigrant neighbours (China, Philippines) who both speak English ( better everyday ). It's so nice to talk with them, share culture, language and most importantly food We did not move to their country, they moved to ours. Adapt, thrive and live the CANADIAN dream... Not the one of the country you came from.

You should tell your immigrant neighbour friends how well they speak english, I hear most love that sort of thing.

Also, what is this "Canadian dream" you speak of?

[theminister]

Seriously, I could not care any less.

I've gotten up to being able to read over 100 Chinese characters and I hope to have that increase every year of my life. I will teach my kids to understand the basics as well as making sure they have an education in Latin.

The world changes, and ever more quickly, and I have no issue with needing to change with it. We all will.

I've been an immigrant to a country I didn't speak the language of and that opened my eyes to a lot of the different factors involved in such a move. Adaptations can take many decades or even generations. It's not easy. My parents were immigrants from an English speaking country and I know how hard they had to work to make roots in Canada, and I can only imagine how much harder it is from such different cultures.

Any issue I have is not with language signs, it's with the immigration policy of Canada that doesn't take cultural diversity of the quotas seriously enough.

[TheOgRook]

You should tell your immigrant neighbour friends how well they speak english, I hear most love that sort of thing.

Also, what is this "Canadian dream" you speak of?

What are you getting at? Yeah I've told them they are doing great and they appreciate it.... So did my grandfather and father who both didn't speak a word of English before coming here.

[TheOgRook]

Have you seen my profile page?

Depends on what you mean by 'segregation'... You are free, and in most cases, safe, to live anywhere in the city you want. Just because you see more Chinese living in Chinatown, Italians in Little Italy, Koreans in Korean Town, etc etc, doesn't mean you are somehow excluded from those communities. Of course, a lot of non-Chinese live in Chinatown, etc.

You actually meant they moved to their new country, I'm sure.

No, I know what I meant. Just cause you move here does not make you Canadian... It's your actions after you move here that count.

[CB007]

No, I know what I meant. Just cause you move here does not make you Canadian... It's your actions after you move here that count.

They didn't move to your country. They moved to THEIR new country, is what I meant.

Regardless, for the record, I truly believe that, ideally, new immigrants should learn the language and the culture to the best of their abilities, but only because it is for their own good:

1) They will have far better economic opportunities

2) They will have far more social opportunities

3) They will have a far better selection of potential life mates... On that note, while some white guys don't mind dating FOTB girls (something I can never understand, personally), white girls do not date FOTB guys. They just don't. Period. The non-white guys I know who date white girls are pretty much for all intends and purposes white guys.

But if they choose not to it's their problem, not anyone else's.

[hsedin33]

yes but they're not marketing the product to those people.

Is this really about language or is it about something deeper and more personal?

Nope, its about having consistency. In Canada, you are not allowed to sell products that do not have both English and French on the label. Supporting different cultures and languages is fine, but in order for a society to operate, there has to be consistency and a proper universal language that everyone must have a basic knowledge of and adhere too, otherwise you would walk down a city street and have 10 different signs with ten different languages. Every cop would need to speak 10 different languages, you would need 10 different labels for every piece of food, you would need 10 different signs for every exit ramp, everybody in a court room would need a translator, it becomes a mess. There is a reason why countries have national languages, its for fluidity, not because they are racist and want to make it hard on everyone else. You go to France, there will be French signs, you go to Italy, there will be Italian signs, go to Germany, there will be German signs, go to Canada, there will be English and French signs. So no, its not 'personal', it's just the simplest and easiest way for a nation to operate, and it makes sense.

I do sympathize however, that it certainly isn't easy to move to another country. There are idiot racists and bigots in every country. Some people move here to avoid tyranny, gender oppression, political upheaval/injustice etc, they may move from one bad situation to another situation where people don't accept them in the new country and they don't have the means to learn the native language in a week, or they are trying to learn, but people hate them anyways.