Why do women tend to care less about the "six pack/eight pack" than men?

[Tortorella's Rant]

Six packs are overrated anyway unless you're competing or something. It's unnecessary dietary punishment to earn and maintain and generally your strength lacks in comparison to where it would be if you didn't have one. Avoid having girly man tits and being pudgy and you're fine.

[GLASSJAW]

i'd tell you guys to just be healthy and work on your personalities and become funny

but with this crowd, its best if you just keep doing your sit ups

[etsen3]

Men care more because we're trying to compete with each other and ourselves. Women do the same thing too. For me personally, lifting is one of my hobbies so I am constantly trying to improve my appearance, confidence, and health. It's nice to look more attractive to women, but work out for myself more than I do for others. I agree with OP that there are other things you can do that would make a bigger difference if you just purely want to get teh ladiez.

As for why it is considered attractive though, having a six pack is a direct product of low body fat, which is a good indicator of health. Humans are biologically attracted to other healthy, athletic people. And having low body fat doesn't just show in your abs, it even makes your face look better.

This may all sound very shallow, but it also takes hard work to be in shape. Sure there are some people who may take unhealthy shortcuts, but for the most part it should be obvious why it's more respectable to take care of your body as opposed to playing video games and drinking beer all day, which is what most people do.

[Gross-Misconduct]

Maybe they think it looks good, doesnt have to be for women

This is true. I workout for both women and men.

[Ghostsof1915]

It's not your muscles, it's the size of your pocketbook, and how much wine you buy them.

[Absent Canuck]

My boy CA has it spot on I think. Anyways, here's a young female perspective.

I think attractivemess is a mixture of charisma and physical beauty, and I'm not shy to admit that I do evaluate the "shallow" aspects of a potential partner (which isn't a problem if their personality is evaluated as well).

Good post. I like it. I adjusted it slightly.

[Absent Canuck]

It's not your muscles, it's the size of your pocketbook, and how much wine you buy them.

Most of us dont live on the reservation so the advice may go unheeded.

[Warhippy]

I'll chime in.

Being physically fit is much more than just simply "how you look" it shows dedication, drive and determination. It shows the ability to start something and continue it, it also shows you care enough about yourself that you have said drive to continue it.

The exact same goes for women. While women naturally have a higher BFI than men due to genetic make up, evolution and well..breasts; they also have a much more primal appeal to men when they are in shape.

I am a guy who used to have an incredibly fast metabolism. I know what I used to look like, and now my metabolism is slowing down and I find that keeping my stomach and core in shape or visible shape takes a shade more effort besides diet. I like it. I feel better for it. I don't have that natural I don't work for it stomach that the teenagers and young 20 somethings do because I am not by nature a skinny guy.

It shows that I work hard on myself, I enjoy the added drive and determination to get things done through the day that working out gets me.

After my accident I didn't have that and I felt terrible, I felt lazy and sick all the time, I was mopey, unmotivated and snappy and now that I am back to what i used to be doing I enjoy life just a little bit more.

Guys put more emphasis on it for aesthetic reasons and a pre conceived notion that it HAS to look that way. I put emphasis on it because it shows a person to be mentally and physically healthy.

That and I look half decent naked

[Ghostsof1915]

Most of us dont live on the reservation so the advice may go unheeded.

I know both men and women can be shallow. But I see a lot of very nice women, hanging out with the biggest jerks, and I only common denominator is they seem to have lots of cash.

A co-worker she sent me this chart.

[Junkyard Dog]

Feel healthy, feel happy. At least for me.

[Dazzle]

This wo

Nick Neave the evolutionary Physcologist wrote

Today's women "may be shooting up the career ladder and earning more than the men in their lives, but when it comes to relationships, men still hold the trump card," Neave claims. "I study patterns of behavior dating back to the first human societies and constantly analyze evidence that demonstrates the key differences which have developed between the sexes since men were hunter-gatherers and women were child bearers. Females are smaller and weaker than males, so, in prehistoric times, women and their offspring were prone to being the victims of predators and violence. They needed the support and protection of men who didn't just have brute force but also had social status in the group, either through their sheer physicality or the strength of their personality. That's why women still look for a mate of higher social standing. If a woman had a relationship with a socially dominant male, she would immediately get greater access to resources because her social standing would be elevated, too. As we shall see, modern surveys consistently show that women today ape [no pun intended?] those inherent characteristics by looking for partners who are socially dominant and have the respect of their peers, paying close attention to how men interact with, and are treated by, other men."

"Men have a different reason for choosing a mate," Neave continues. "The caveman needed to be sure he was raising a child who was genetically his. The best way of doing this was to secure a mate and guard her so she didn't get the chance to stray. A man's natural instinct may be to have sex with a different woman every day, but to safeguard his relationship (and secure his progeny), he has been forced into a pattern of monogamy. When couples meet at speed-dating events, typically a man will judge a woman on her looks and youth. His priorities are whether she's healthy, interested in sex, and can give him children one day. He doesn't care how much she earns or her social status. Typically, however, a woman's first question will be: 'What job do you do?' It sounds a friendly overture, but what she really wants to know is his social position and earning capacity. Is he an industrious, hard worker, capable of providing for her and their children? Because of his power, even the ugliest politician on the planet has women lining up to go to bed with him... As American statesman Henry Kissinger put it: 'Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.'"

Neave goes on to quote a study in which the researchers (from Syracuse University and University of Toledo) presented women with photographs of men. The first group, described as doctors, wore designer ties, smart shirts, and sported Rolex watches. The second wore plain shirts and Swatch watches and were described as teachers. The third group wore Burger King uniforms. Women repeatedly picked doctors as potential boyfriends — even though many of the men in the third category were actually more handsome.

Says Neave: "Quite simply, to women, a man's looks are less important than earning power and social standing."

1. Ripped muscles + 'Acting nice' = Gaydar blips.

2. The guy who spends all of his time loving his own appearance may not have time to appreciate yours. And the woman may want to be the most-attractive one in the relationship.

3. Finances matter. Muscles, few clothes, a tan and physical appearance doesn't indicate a huge bank account. In fact it may indicate a beach bum.

4. 'Mimbo' factor. Most of them have great abs. Most are also a waste of breath.

5. Is it real people who find these physical attributes attractive? Or are we being told that by corporations who want us to spend cash on ways to improve ourselves.

6. F it. Beauty is a light switch away.

Well, I'm a naturally lanky guy. I wasn't blessed with big muscles or broad shoulders. The only really 'above-average' things about my body are my giant hands and feet, black guy butt, and I always have defined abs year-round. I get compliments here and there about my abs from girls, every now and then. But my ass is revered as a golden idol. At parties, girls are always grabbing my ass. I also get girls wanting to compare their hands and feet to mine a lot. The 6-pack really isn't fawned over that much.

From my experience, most girls like these body features the most (not counting face): wide backs, broad shoulders, muscly butts, and height. Physical features like that are indicators of good genes; strength and size to protect them with. All a 6-pack indicates is that you have low body fat, which in fact might not necessarily be good thing from a natural selection standpoint (remember what they say about fat being revered in less affluent cultures?)

So, I think what makes a 6-pack attractive is the time and place we live in. In a culture where most of us have more food than we need, it shows you take good care of your fitness, the same way really nice clothes show you take care of your finances (even though those nice clothes might've been impractical to wear back when in the wild). The scrawny guy making 6 figures doesn't exactly trigger that primal urge in a girl, but money means power nowadays and so the best way to get yourself a 'mate' isn't to have big muscles but a big wallet.

As for a male-male perspective, some guys just want to look strong and dominant not necessarily to attract women but to be intimidating or impressive. I don't think many women find bulgy traps and swollen biceps attractive, but it sure looks f**king scary. Most of them find a 6-pack to just be a 'cherry on top' sort of deal compared to other body features. But it shows you exercise and looks powerful. Status is important to some people. I find I've had more guys compliment me on my abs than my girls if I'm being completely honest.

It really boils down to the sexes having completely different priorities and ideas over what the other wants.

For example, the same can be said for how women care so much about how their makeup/hair/whatever looks when most guys won't even notice.

There is also the fact that everyone has different preferences for what they find physically attractive in a partner. For example I know guys that think Taylor Swift is a 10/10 but I'm not attracted to her at all. That doesn't mean she's extremely attractive or ugly, just that people like different things.

Men care more because we're trying to compete with each other and ourselves. Women do the same thing too. For me personally, lifting is one of my hobbies so I am constantly trying to improve my appearance, confidence, and health. It's nice to look more attractive to women, but work out for myself more than I do for others. I agree with OP that there are other things you can do that would make a bigger difference if you just purely want to get teh ladiez.

As for why it is considered attractive though, having a six pack is a direct product of low body fat, which is a good indicator of health. Humans are biologically attracted to other healthy, athletic people. And having low body fat doesn't just show in your abs, it even makes your face look better.

This may all sound very shallow, but it also takes hard work to be in shape. Sure there are some people who may take unhealthy shortcuts, but for the most part it should be obvious why it's more respectable to take care of your body as opposed to playing video games and drinking beer all day, which is what most people do.

My boy CA has it spot on I think. Anyways, here's a female perspective.

I think attractivemess is a mixture of charisma and physical beauty, and I'm not shy to admit that I do evaluate the "shallow" aspects of a potential partner (which isn't a problem if their personality is evaluated as well).

I like physically fit men and I just tend to look for general indications - good muscle definition, wide shoulders, above average height etc. I think most girls look for this as well. From the average male perspective, it's quite vague but a more concrete goal for them at the gym would be the six pack. Once they achieve that, it's easy to assume they have the rest of the package in terms of their body. I do think that like penis size (which girls care less about than guys), abs are a topic that's more explosive between males.

There are far too many positive connotations associated with a fit man, be it better sex, overall masculinity or just better social standing.

And as mentioned before, you shouldn't be working out just to get some feline. I've been with the same person for years and I couldn't care less about the rest of the men and their opinions on my body as I exercise.

Edit: A woman's measure of true fitness often comes via her waist to hip ratio, it's so culturally and psychologically engrained in us that sometimes we don't even realize we prefer it until it's pointed out. It has a similar principle to abs in having little visceral fat but a good amount of fat that signal fertility

I'll chime in.

Being physically fit is much more than just simply "how you look" it shows dedication, drive and determination. It shows the ability to start something and continue it, it also shows you care enough about yourself that you have said drive to continue it.

The exact same goes for women. While women naturally have a higher BFI than men due to genetic make up, evolution and well..breasts; they also have a much more primal appeal to men when they are in shape.

I am a guy who used to have an incredibly fast metabolism. I know what I used to look like, and now my metabolism is slowing down and I find that keeping my stomach and core in shape or visible shape takes a shade more effort besides diet. I like it. I feel better for it. I don't have that natural I don't work for it stomach that the teenagers and young 20 somethings do because I am not by nature a skinny guy.

It shows that I work hard on myself, I enjoy the added drive and determination to get things done through the day that working out gets me.

After my accident I didn't have that and I felt terrible, I felt lazy and sick all the time, I was mopey, unmotivated and snappy and now that I am back to what i used to be doing I enjoy life just a little bit more.

Guys put more emphasis on it for aesthetic reasons and a pre conceived notion that it HAS to look that way. I put emphasis on it because it shows a person to be mentally and physically healthy.

That and I look half decent naked

I really, really love all of the posts so far, but these posted ones above would be my favorite, if I were forced to make some kind of list. I think there's some limit to how much you can quote in one single post.

Anyhow, as for the 'insecure' girls, those ones will 'work harder' to please the man, for fear that he will leave her. This, of course, could result in power imbalances.

It really does seem like women will definitely consider your finances as a huge positive trait, in lieu of other less favorable ones. This doesn't necessarily mean that you have a license to be a dickhead but chances are, you are more likely to get away with being one IF you have money. However, one thing for sure is that you won't get "respect" in the truest sense. Superficial admiration may be the closest to that but that isn't genuine and won't last.

Women who are too low on BF, ironically, would have fertility problems (scientifically suggested). I find that interesting considering the same problem isn't found in guys, for obvious reasons, although I personally don't think that a professional bodybuilder (@3-5 percent BF) is attractive at all. It's my personal opinion that it is ugly. It looks just as bad on a woman (with very very low BF), if not worse.

Most of the above posts indicate that it's important to be happy with how you look, regardless of what it looks like, because it's unrealistic to do it for others and expect some kind of positive reaction that you were hoping for.

The six pack is kind of an entry point to the concept of good fitness, though it's also the hardest to achieve too (as it requires dieting and not eating your favorite kinds of foods). I find lifting weights and 'good muscle definition' to be very hard as I find it boring to do. It's not my thing.

This might be considered "lazy" however in the eyes of people.

[Absent Canuck]

I know both men and women can be shallow. But I see a lot of very nice women, hanging out with the biggest jerks, and I only common denominator is they seem to have lots of cash.

A co-worker she sent me this chart.

LOL

Well played sir. +1

[Dazzle]

Haha thanks. Can't see myself liking money more than a perfectly formed arse unless it's my money.

Given the fact that there's a notable and seemingly illogical difference in pay between men and women, eventually it will be.

Now I'm not saying that you're a golddigger... but you're not going to mess with broke guys... modified Kanye song...

[Dazzle]

I understand but for some reason when money enters the discussion, only filthy rich guys and broke guys are compared. In reality majority of us (guys and girls alike) are right in the middle. Of course I'm not going to go for a broke man, but I'm not going to throw away all expectations when a terrible person has a lot of money. There's a grey area in between. Realistically, I think most women expect their partners to earn at least as much as them if not more

Yeah? well, a lot of people do.

Men may do it if the chick is 'hot' enough.

Chicks may do it if the man is rich enough.

Like my ex, she loves it when she gets splooshed. No, not the one involving the face.

She's not a terrible person by any means. It's just that she'll feel special. Not that you need to do it every time... she's the so-called grey area between a decently nice girl and a gold digger.

Most girls are decently nice.

[Warhippy]

I know both men and women can be shallow. But I see a lot of very nice women, hanging out with the biggest jerks, and I only common denominator is they seem to have lots of cash.

A co-worker she sent me this chart.

You don`t mind if I borrow this do you

[Dazzle]

Regardless of what a lot of people do, it's your responsibility to make sure you don't end up with a person with gold digger tendencies/anything else that's very shallow.

Well, then the responsible thing to do is never get involved at all then, if that's what you're saying.

[Rypien37]

I work out because I enjoy staying fit/healthy, it is a good stress reliever and achieving gains/goals builds character.

Girls liking the muscles and abs is just an added bonus.

[Dazzle]

Not like how horndogs our age do it, anyways. It's not that hard to not get involved until you've been friends with someone long enough to see those faults. When you enter a romantic relationship with someone you know nothing about until you approached them at Starbucks, you're setting yourself up for failure.

But those barista girls would look nice on my bed...

Plus they can make me a frappy.

Also, I can make THEM a frappy too.....

[GLASSJAW]

Not like how horndogs our age do it, anyways. It's not that hard to not get involved until you've been friends with someone long enough to see those faults. When you enter a romantic relationship with someone you know nothing about until you approached them at Starbucks, you're setting yourself up for failure.

are you talking about me

[etsen3]

Physical appearance means little to me , I admire people who are intelligent and kind to others.

Beauty is only skin deep ugly is to the bone.

1. Ripped muscles + 'Acting nice' = Gaydar blips.

2. The guy who spends all of his time loving his own appearance may not have time to appreciate yours. And the woman may want to be the most-attractive one in the relationship.

3. Finances matter. Muscles, few clothes, a tan and physical appearance doesn't indicate a huge bank account. In fact it may indicate a beach bum.

4. 'Mimbo' factor. Most of them have great abs. Most are also a waste of breath.

5. Is it real people who find these physical attributes attractive? Or are we being told that by corporations who want us to spend cash on ways to improve ourselves.

6. F it. Beauty is a light switch away.

Correct me if I'm wrong but these two posts seem to imply to me that being physically attractive and being intelligent are mutually exclusive. In the real world (ie outside of middle school) not everyone is either a dumb jock doucher or a meek scrawny nerd.

I can say that since I started putting more effort into my appearance (lifting and excercising and buying nice clothes), I have made huge improvements in all areas of life as well. I'm more mature, I have a better job, more motivation, more friends, do better at school, and enjoy life more. I can't say that working out has caused these things (correlation =/= causation) but it is a symptom of better character and a more positive outlook on life. So I take offense to being stereotyped as "a mimbo" or a "beach bum" or a "waste of breath" just because I make an effort to improve myself.

Not that being in shape is the most important thing that defines attractiveness, but it will almost never be a disadvantage.