Why Gillis is actually a genius

[wallstreetamigo]

Mike Gillis is a beautiful person

Maybe (though doubtful considering how arrogant he comes across as)

But the only thing that matters is he was a terrible GM especially the last 3 years.

[Apricot]

Gillis trading Lu and Schneids for basically nothing, not re-signing Lappy, Manny, Torres, Mitchell etc was a huge mistake. All those NTC's he's just throwing around like one dollar bills was the worst idea ever. His trade history is atrocious, starting from the Ballard trade and ending with the Lu trade. So no, I wouldn't exactly say he's a "genius"

[Fred65]

One thing few can deny Gillis is he made Vcr a go to destination for players. Heck to get a player into Edmon or Calgary you basically have to resort to physical violence....and I see players are now turning down offers from the Leafs who are looking more and more like a place to avoid...a dead zone

[BurgerKing]

Why does everything have to be black and white? Either he was terrible or he was awesome. He had good points and bad. He had talent but he also had flaws, he was arrogant.

Pros:

-Ability to think outside the box.

-Ability to change the culture.

-Signed contracts at low cap hits

-Signed great free agents at good caphits.

Cons:

-Too many disgruntled players

-Bad trade record

Gillis was a big reason we almost won the cup, we had guys winning individual awards, we finished tops in the league two years in a row.

He did not draft well, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this, how much time is acceptable to fix the drafting?

08 was on the job for a month, 09 he was evaluating what was going on, 10 we had no picks, all teams have to do this from time to time to try to win, 11, 12, 13 is too early to tell.

the Booth trade did not cost us a thing other than cap space, Booth was on a 20 goal pace his first season with us, then he got hurt, it is supposed to a pretty devasting injury.

Ballard deal was a disaster.

Luongo situation; we don't know particulars, hearsay is he wouldn't go anywhere other than FLA at first, not many suiters available, ownership refused to buy him out, ownership went above and beyond to sign him to that deal in the first place.

Corey didn't impress in the SJ series, even in the regular season he was just average that year. Maybe they figured might as well keep Luongo and get assets for Corey.

Disgruntled Cody and subsequently trading a top 6 center for sometimes not interested Kassian is on Gillis, but Kassian can still be a very good player.

We should have got something that would help us out immediately for Corey instead of a pick.

Again rumour on Torts signing is that was on ownership.

Having said all this I beleive it was a good idea to get Benning in as GM, once Kesler demanded the trade and it was evident we were not going to get much for him, we needed to shift our focus to excelling in drafting and developing. I wish they would have kept Gillis as the president. Perhaps Aquilini thought Linden could persuade Kes to stay.

[Baggins]

Acquiring Ballard for three first rounders was another smooth move.

Three first rounders? Hyperbole.

Bernier was a first round bust and overpaid 3rd liner when traded. He was included in the deal as a cap dump. Referring to him as a first rounder in the deal is like saying we gave up a first rounder (White) to acquire Ehrhoff.

Grabner was waiver eligible with our entire top six coming off a career year. We faced losing him for nothing at all to waivers. The kid squandered opportunity after opportunity to make this team with his inability to show up to camp in shape and ready to compete. The opportunity went to Raymond instead. Then when presented with a golden opportunity to make a weak team he yet again shows up in poor shape and is cut by the offensively desperate Panthers. He was lucky there was a team even more desperate for bodies than the Panthers.

Our bottom end first rounder was overpayment in return for the Panthers taking the Bernier cap dump. When you ask a team to take a bad contract in a deal you have to give extra.

How did the deal work out for the Panthers? Grabner was lost to waivers as he would have been here. They ate Bernier's contract and let him walk as a UFA. And that bottom end first rounder has panned out to 34 nhl games with 4 goals, 6 assists and an impressive -11 +/- after four years.

Nobody won that deal.

[nuckin_futz]

Mike Gillis is absolutely a genius. Think about what he did.

1) Convince ownership you're worth a lengthy extension at big dollars.

2) Botch everything so badly you get canned.

3) Sit on your duff for the next 3-4 years collecting millions.

If that isn't genius, I don't know what is.

[hockeywoot]

You're right, but just for giggles;

Hodgson-top 6

Sauve -bust

Rai-bust

Froshaug-bust

M. Clark-bust

Schroeder-bust

Rodin-bust

Connaughton-6th/7th D-man

Price-bust

Anderson-bust

Canata-bust

Anthony-bust

McNally-bust

Polasek-bust

Friesen-bust

lilahti-bust

Hannay-bust

Jensen- could go either way

Hoznik-bust

Grenier-bust

Labate-bust

Bloomstrand-bust

Corrado-6th/7th

Westerholm-bust

Tommerness-no NHL games

Gaunce-looking like bust

Mallet-bust

Hutton-?

Myron-bust

Beattie-bust

It kind of looks like historically pretty much all of our prospects don't make it & they def. don't make an impact. But keep on dreaming all of our draft picks are the best.

Andersson is not a bust nor is Labate. Gaunce is not trending to be a bust either.

[hockeywoot]

Why does everything have to be black and white? Either he was terrible or he was awesome. He had good points and bad. He had talent but he also had flaws, he was arrogant.

Pros:

-Ability to think outside the box.

-Ability to change the culture.

-Signed contracts at low cap hits

-Signed great free agents at good caphits.

Cons:

-Too many disgruntled players

-Bad trade record

Gillis was a big reason we almost won the cup, we had guys winning individual awards, we finished tops in the league two years in a row.

He did not draft well, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this, how much time is acceptable to fix the drafting?

08 was on the job for a month, 09 he was evaluating what was going on, 10 we had no picks, all teams have to do this from time to time to try to win, 11, 12, 13 is too early to tell.

the Booth trade did not cost us a thing other than cap space, Booth was on a 20 goal pace his first season with us, then he got hurt, it is supposed to a pretty devasting injury.

Ballard deal was a disaster.

Luongo situation; we don't know particulars, hearsay is he wouldn't go anywhere other than FLA at first, not many suiters available, ownership refused to buy him out, ownership went above and beyond to sign him to that deal in the first place.

Corey didn't impress in the SJ series, even in the regular season he was just average that year. Maybe they figured might as well keep Luongo and get assets for Corey.

Disgruntled Cody and subsequently trading a top 6 center for sometimes not interested Kassian is on Gillis, but Kassian can still be a very good player.

We should have got something that would help us out immediately for Corey instead of a pick.

Again rumour on Torts signing is that was on ownership.

Having said all this I beleive it was a good idea to get Benning in as GM, once Kesler demanded the trade and it was evident we were not going to get much for him, we needed to shift our focus to excelling in drafting and developing. I wish they would have kept Gillis as the president. Perhaps Aquilini thought Linden could persuade Kes to stay.

This. Most people on these boards can't be objective.

[nuck nit]

This. Most people on these boards can't be objective.

Why be objective when there is a record to date - as per Standing Tall #37:

Hodgson-top 6

Sauve -bust

Rai-bust

Froshaug-bust

M. Clark-bust

Schroeder-bust

Rodin-bust

Connaughton-6th/7th D-man

Price-bust

Anderson-bust

Canata-bust

Anthony-bust

McNally-bust

Polasek-bust

Friesen-bust

lilahti-bust

Hannay-bust

Jensen- could go either way

Hoznik-bust

Grenier-bust

Labate-bust

Bloomstrand-bust

Corrado-6th/7th

Westerholm-bust

Tommerness-no NHL games

Gaunce-looking like bust

Mallet-bust

Hutton-?

Myron-bust

Beattie-bust

Gaunce has a chance to make it ,I agree.

Record sucks bad as Gillis was continuously trading the Canucks future for his present roster -which made his record better but caught up to him-and the team- in the end.He relied on a rising cap but eventually had to pay the players whom took discounts (Burr/twins) and the cupboards were bare when the team needed skilled young players on league minimum.

[Tearloch7]

Historical revisionism, both pro and con. Perhaps it's best to just let this stuff lie where it is and walk on.

regards,

G.

One would think so, but some folks revel in trying to prove they 'told you so', and then skewering their defenseless prey with vitriol that makes them 'feel better' .. "It takes a lot to laugh, it takes a train to cry" .. Bob Dylan said that ..

[nuck nit]

On the other hand Aqualini could have kept Gillis and the team risked staying on the trajectory it was going -to the bottom of the league.

The diminishing fans and revenues eventually places the franchise in a precarious position of potential loss.

There are those that are now having a difficult time facing their personal actions they displayed against CDC members that dared to oppose and register the decisions of a GM that was not qualified or experienced to run an NHL club successfully.

The management practises of the immediate past reflect three lost years where some CDC fanatics now are left to reflect on their own actions to others that had the audacity to point out what is now the obvious to all.

Thankfully,the new GM is both qualified and experienced to run this club properly and all fans of the Canucks can now be hopeful and thankful that the difficult,proper decisions have been made,albeit a few years late.

[Gollumpus]

One would think so, but some folks revel in trying to prove they 'told you so', and then skewering their defenseless prey with vitriol that makes them 'feel better' .. "It takes a lot to laugh, it takes a train to cry" .. Bob Dylan said that ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQtREOeqn_M

regards,

G.

[SNACanuck]

I guess if your goal is to get yourself fired for poor performance I'd say hell yeah MG was a "Genius."

[wallstreetamigo]

Three first rounders? Hyperbole.

Bernier was a first round bust and overpaid 3rd liner when traded. He was included in the deal as a cap dump. Referring to him as a first rounder in the deal is like saying we gave up a first rounder (White) to acquire Ehrhoff.

Grabner was waiver eligible with our entire top six coming off a career year. We faced losing him for nothing at all to waivers. The kid squandered opportunity after opportunity to make this team with his inability to show up to camp in shape and ready to compete. The opportunity went to Raymond instead. Then when presented with a golden opportunity to make a weak team he yet again shows up in poor shape and is cut by the offensively desperate Panthers. He was lucky there was a team even more desperate for bodies than the Panthers.

Our bottom end first rounder was overpayment in return for the Panthers taking the Bernier cap dump. When you ask a team to take a bad contract in a deal you have to give extra.

How did the deal work out for the Panthers? Grabner was lost to waivers as he would have been here. They ate Bernier's contract and let him walk as a UFA. And that bottom end first rounder has panned out to 34 nhl games with 4 goals, 6 assists and an impressive -11 +/- after four years.

Nobody won that deal.

Are you still trying to show people that despite a lot of mistakes by Gillis this mistake was based on a reasonable risk/reward analysis of all the situations with the players involved?

You forgot to say that getting Hamhuis was not a sure thing and Mitchell was as good as gone due to the (ultimately mistaken) theory that bouncing back from a serious injury may not happen for him.

This is one deal where I can see the thought process Gillis used and agreed with it. It didn't work out obviously but these are the kind of trades that you ahve to give credit to a GM for trying to pull off to make the team better.

[nuck nit]

nuck nit, on 03 Jul 2014 - 9:25 PM, said:

Acquiring Ballard for three first rounders was another smooth move.

Three first rounders? Hyperbole.

Steve Bernier-16th overall 2003 draft+

Michael Grabner-14th overall 2008 draft+

Vancouver's first round pick -25th overall-2010 draft=

Three first rounders

[Lui's Knob]

Gillis did good from Nonis but the past 2_3 seasons he ran out a plan and execution... That and it's clear nobody wanted to deal with him trade wise

[TheSnipeshow91]

Before you flame, hear me out. Here's our goaltending duos for the last couple years:

12/13 - Lu and Cory

13/14 - Lu and Lack

Now next season:

14/15 - Miller and Lack

Not much of a difference in terms of quality in goaltending right? Except when it was Lu and Cory maybe, but there's no way those two number ones were going to co-exist for very long.

Now the return for both Lu and Cory is:

- Bo Horvat

- Shawn Matthias

- Jacob Markstrom

Basically we got those assets for free while still having a number one and a number two goaltender. Gillis must have foreseen this. It was all part of the big picture plan of GMMG

Ya, but he also turned a team that was once 1 game away from a cup to a team in the middle of the pack.

[wallstreetamigo]

nuck nit, on 03 Jul 2014 - 9:25 PM, said:

Steve Bernier-16th overall 2003 draft+

Michael Grabner-14th overall 2008 draft+

Vancouver's first round pick -25th overall-2010 draft=

Three first rounders

True but the reality is that Bernier did not develop into anything close to being worth his draft spot. Being a 1st round pick only really matters until you get to the NHL and prove that you deserve to be one or not. After that it becomes strictly asset management based on the current assessment of the player.

As Baggins has repeatedly pointed out the bottom line is that Gillis took a calculated risk. Pre-Vancouver Ballard was EXACTLY what our D needed. Gillis made a choice between Grabner and Raymond and at the time Raymond was coming off a career year ad Grabner was still floating along at camp and not being ready. He was waiver eligible and would have been lost for nothing unless he made the team out of camp. Obviously Gillis and AV had their doubts about that. He did not even make Florida's roster out of camp. 25th overall pick. Hasnt turned into much at all yet so the time value of money theory applies. Gillis got what he thought would be immediate help for a pick that has still not contributed at the NHL level.

Most know I am not a Gillis fan but had he considered every trade and signing like he did this one he would still be here and we might even have a cup.

[Baggins]

Are you still trying to show people that despite a lot of mistakes by Gillis this mistake was based on a reasonable risk/reward analysis of all the situations with the players involved?

You forgot to say that getting Hamhuis was not a sure thing and Mitchell was as good as gone due to the (ultimately mistaken) theory that bouncing back from a serious injury may not happen for him.

This is one deal where I can see the thought process Gillis used and agreed with it. It didn't work out obviously but these are the kind of trades that you ahve to give credit to a GM for trying to pull off to make the team better.

The fact, yes fact, Hamhuis wasn't a sure thing and the fact, yes another fact, Mitchells career was definitely in question, made the Ballard deal make complete sense. I've never said otherwise.

What I'm saying is that inferring that we traded three first rounders for Ballard is hyperbole. Bernier could not possibly considered the equivalent of a first round pick at the time he was traded. He was an overpaid third liner. Grabner's history of showing up to camp in poor shape was no secret and thus made him a risk for any team trading for him. Imo we didn't actually give up much to acquire Ballard but he was still a complete disaster here. He simply couldn't adapt to a bottom pair role.

Trading for Ballard was a risk coming off his off season surgery but considering what we gave up and considering the actual situation it wasn't a bad risk to take. Grabner would have been lost to waivers. There was no chance of him making it on to a contender given his history of showing up to camp in poor shape with our entire top six coming off a career year. There's a freakin' big period after that statement. He has continued to have that same problem. Michael " I take the summer off" Grabner has great wheels and skill, but lacks the commitment to to work his butt off in the offseason to maximize those skills. Not a player I'd want on my team if I was in charge. Period.

I said NOBODY won that deal but a failed deal is still a failed deal. Any failed deal lays with the GM who made the deal. Grabner had to be moved but MG chose the wrong guy to deal him for.

[wallstreetamigo]

The fact, yes fact, Hamhuis wasn't a sure thing and the fact, yes another fact, Mitchells career was definitely in question, made the Ballard deal make complete sense. I've never said otherwise.

What I'm saying is that inferring that we traded three first rounders for Ballard is hyperbole. Bernier could not possibly considered the equivalent of a first round pick at the time he was traded. He was an overpaid third liner. Grabner's history of showing up to camp in poor shape was no secret and thus made him a risk for any team trading for him. Imo we didn't actually give up much to acquire Ballard but he was still a complete disaster here. He simply couldn't adapt to a bottom pair role.

Trading for Ballard was a risk coming off his off season surgery but considering what we gave up and considering the actual situation it wasn't a bad risk to take. Grabner would have been lost to waivers. There was no chance of him making it on to a contender given his history of showing up to camp in poor shape with our entire top six coming off a career year. There's a freakin' big period after that statement. He has continued to have that same problem. Michael " I take the summer off" Grabner has great wheels and skill, but lacks the commitment to to work his butt off in the offseason to maximize those skills. Not a player I'd want on my team if I was in charge. Period.

I said NOBODY won that deal but a failed deal is still a failed deal. Any failed deal lays with the GM who made the deal. Grabner had to be moved but MG chose the wrong guy to deal him for.

You know I was agreeing with you, right?

Ballard did not work out here at all. But like you said, at the time of the trade it was a fair risk/reward assessment by Gillis.

Now, hanging onto Ballard for two years when it became obvious he was not going to fit in as expected - especially considering it cost the team Ehrhoff - qualifies as a not so good read by Gillis as to what path he should take.