[Rumour] Philly shopping both Schenn´s , Coburn and Grossmann

[DeNiro]

Totally agree, except I'm kind of hoping we can get a number 1 center. That'd really stack us up.

I think McCann is flying under the radar right now, but not for long.

He has the speed, shot, and hockey IQ to be that guy.

We'll see how his development goes over the next few years though.

[CatsPajamas]

If Philly is shopping both Schenn's, how did their future get better with the Richards trade?

Only one Schenn came in the Richards trade, and Simmonds came as well. How reliable is the fourth period? How drastic and borderline insane is Holmgren? Do you not believe Brayden Schenn has unreached potential? The report claims that Holmgren wants a top six forward in return for Schenn or the other assets that are reportedly available, if this is correct then the trade is about right now and not the future. Though I wouldn't say the validity of the entire report would be completely undermined by the falsification of the specific part of the report that gives reason to B. Schenn being on the block.

Pretty much, the Flyers trading Brayden Schenn would say nothing to the improvement trading Richards for Simmonds and Schenn had on their future. My point is that both teams were in somewhat similar positions, both took two different routes. If one would have taken the others route they would quite possibly be in a better position moving forward than they are now.

Seems like they traded for a piece they're already unhappy with.

Nonsense. Either way it says little against my point.

Have some people not been paying attention to what this team has been doing the last couple seasons? With 4 first round picks in the last two drafts, I would say we're doing a fine job of building for the future. I wouldn't say Philly has done that much more in terms of a reboot than us.

In the last two years we've added:

Horvat, Shinkaruk, Cassels, Subban, Virtanen, McCann, Vey, Demko, Tryamkin, and Markstrom.

I would say with what was available a good job has been done. I wouldn't say this teams future is particularly bright. I'd wager that the team gets good again, for a bit, and with luck wins the cup but never compares to other contenders on paper, until the old guard retires and we will again need luck to give us star players with later picks.

What I most definitely would say, is that if you added Schenn and Couterier to the team, added two more 1st rounders, along with the other assets that would come with other trades and signings that would be made, but take away Shinkaruk, Virtanen, and McCann, the teams future is obviously better.

If people aren't happy with that talent pool, then I don't know what you're expecting exactly. But to me, that group is one elite D prospect away from being one of the better prospect pools in the league.

Lul. Probably not even top ten. Especially since we would have to trade assets or use our 1st round pick to get that elite D prospect. I look forward to your claim that better equals top 15 or some stupid shit like that or your pathetically biased evaluations of our prospects and how they compare to the prospects of other teams.

[DeNiro]

^^Lol. Pessimistic Canucks fan that probably doesn't even follow our prospects, that's all.

You're just a debbie downer that bashes our prospects and thinks everyone else's are stars.

I suggest you follow what our young prospects are doing in the OHL, and how the guys are doing down on the farm. Then get back to me.

Virtanen with a 4 point night tonight, by the way. He'll be a bust according to you I'm sure.

[CatsPajamas]

^^Lol. Pessimistic Canucks fan that probably doesn't even follow our prospects, that's all.

You're just a debbie downer that bashes our prospects and thinks everyone else's are stars.

I suggest you follow what our young prospects are doing in the OHL, and how the guys are doing down on the farm. Then get back to me.

Virtanen with a 4 point night tonight, by the way. He'll be a bust according to you I'm sure.

lmao. I may have put a few words in your mouth at the end of my post, but I didn't do this. You gave it basis with the 1 elite D comment too. That was beyond ridiculous. I didn't say anything that would a reasonable person would turn into this ^^^.

I don't think Virtanen is a bust, yet, and I think chances are he won't be. Most of our top prospects are looking good. It's when you compare them to what other teams have. Not only do most them have prospects just as good, but they have more, and lots of them are better.

[Baka]

If Philly is shopping both Schenn's, how did their future get better with the Richards trade?

Seems like they traded for a piece they're already unhappy with.

Wayne Simmonds

While I will admit more was expected of Schenn at this point in his career him being marked isn't a knock on his skill as much as it is be simply became expendable. He plays on a roster with Giroux, Couturier, and Lecavalier all as natural centers and Laughton who is now tearing up the AHL. With Giroux and Couturier surpassing him and Lecavalier being unmoveable, Schenn become the logical trade asset to fill another hole.

Mike Richards remaining on the Flyers would not have made Philly any happier. Richards did not age well at all and would hardly be an asset to Philly. Since the trade he has not broken 20 goals and has not topped 44 points. His ice time has been greatly reduced and he has been downgraded as low as the 4th line. Last season Schenn had less ice time and still mirrored Richards in points but had 9 more goals hitting 20. This season Richards is off to a poor start seeing even less ice time and though Schenn is off to a slow start himself he is still producing more than Richards.

Philly has flaw but if this trade was reverse offered today sending Simmonds, Schenn, and a pick back for Richards well Philly would decline and LA would accept. Even offering Simmonds alone for Richards or Schenn alone for Richards would see Philly decline both and LA accept both.

[Apple Juice]

Do he'd be like a Tanev, Hamhuis, Bieksa and Stanton. No thanks we need a PMD defender and I'd be happy to trade Edler/Bieksa and Kassian to do it.

Then trade Edler or Sbisa if Grossmann is acquired for a PMD. Besides, a PMD isn't cheap and easy to find.

[zombieksa]

In 3 years Horvat, Vey, Cassels, and McCann would make Schenn obsolete, the future is bright!

[Guest Dasein]

There is Edmontons dance partner.

Yak for B. Schenn.

This makes way too much sense.

So MacTavish won't do it.

Both Schenns for Yakupov and a defenseman?

[Canuck Surfer]

In 3 years Horvat, Vey, Cassels, and McCann would make Schenn obsolete, the future is bright!

Well? Brayden Schenn would make us better right now. And it remains a ways down the road before we find out if McCaan or Cassels can match Schenn's potential.

But you're right. Our depth is also at centre. And what Philly really needs is defensive help. That we are not in a position to offer. And see just below. Diehard Philly fanatic Florence is exactly reviewing their backend need? Different trading partners is far more logical!

Coburn is honestly hard for me to judge. He has been injured this season only playing 1 game though he should return tonight or next game. However and I know a small margin of data but the 1 game he played in the Flyers gave up 2 goals. In the 5 games he missed Philadelphia gave up a minimum of 4 goals in every game.

Philly's defense is so frighteningly bad without Coburn I wonder how moving him can be justified on a team that hasn't said eff this season xD He is a legit big minute top 4 defenseman though and is capable of playing on the top pair just fine though he isn't a true top pair guy. Value wise in a hockey trade I would saw he's worth a second line forward (preferably a winger with Philly's need). Prospect wise. In this draft a 2nd round pick. To reference Canucks prospects not an elite prospect but a prospect like Jensen or Shinkaruk with strong potential but not over the top. Of thats just my opinion.

If I was in control I would honestly keep Coburn. Trade B.Schenn+(+) for a big talent winger like Kane. Dump Luke Schenn and Grossmann on whoever wants them for whatever they want to give. I would call up Laughton to replace B. Schenn as he has 4 goals in his first 3 AHL games. And two of Hagg/Alt/Gostibehere to be mixed into the defenders for development as they have played well in the AHL also and Philly's best hope at a fixed defense is the development of the 5 defenders they have in their system with Morin, Sanheim, Hagg, Alt, and Gostibehere.

I think you're assessment of status quo on the main club is spot on. But I also think you might be playing with fire resting the hands of such a talented forward crew (as Philly has) in the lap of all those D prospects.

FTR its not a bad prospect crew. But its not elite by any stretch either. Lots of late firsts and middle picks. Guys on CDC always have a habit of pointing out that guys like Keith, Weber or Subban were not top ten picks. That Norris guys seem to emerge. There is no reason to believe any of these guys are that good though. I think it might be fair to suggest, even if they emerge, that you would be wasting a lot of potential waiting on them.

My own assessment is that, much like us with Garrison, there is actually plenty of good D men on your team. The problem is many of them have similar skills that do not cover the needs of all situations. So they get exposed playing outside their natural roles and positions. And don't fill out as a good team. Philly has kept acquiring two way left handed D. I think L Schenn is their only right handed D. And their only guy who's signature is physical play. Unfortunately he has also not panned out as better than a 3rd pairing guy. But has to be relied on for more. In the end, IMO, they should be packaging one good LHD with Brayden, maybe some futures to land someone special. That would make them formidable.

And Philly, like us, should be in on guys Gormley. Gormley is a left hander but has speed and puck skills neither of our teams really have. Or Rundblad, who was a righty, last year. Some teams don't have room for their prospects. He only cost Chi a 2knd. And both of us needed him MUCH more. Keep loading such guys in your prospect pool and the chances for one to emerge are better!

[oldnews]

Brayden Schenn is overhyped imo. If I were the Flyers, I'd shop him too.

Needs way too much sheltering to be thrown into a top line role. The fact they've done that reeks of pump and dump.

He's needed weak competition and very high offensive zone starts just to manage water level underlying numbers. That doesn't spell a young player who is ready to step up - it spells a player who still has his share of work to do.

Folks here suggesting he's make a good center aren't really paying enough attention. He's not really cutting it as a center. He is weak in the faceoff circle and nothing about his game spells a sufficient two way player to handle the role.

Imo he's better off as a winger conversion - is still a tweener in that role - and his value consequently not as high as perhaps it is perceived to be.