Canadian Cadets

[ScotianLifestyle]

You know the ones that stand outside grocery stores begging for change? What's up with that?

I have a very unfavorable view of having children join quasi-military organizations to... well I don't really understand the purpose of the cadets, which is why I made this thread. I looked up their activities, and I don't see why what they do has to be associated with the armed forces. Children can certainly learn to "conquer winter" without any military undertones. Especially in Canada, where we don't have any natural enemies, nor a history of defending our nation from conflict.

I would like to get some opinions and even experiences if possible. As is, my stomach churns every time I see children in army uniforms and I can't help but feel disdain for their parents and any adults that, in my opinion, groom children into soldiers.

Some images to convey my thoughts:

Hitler Youth or Canadian Cadets?

Almost old enough to play war for real.

Remembering soldiers that perished in a war of aggression half way around the world? Or getting ready to replace them in our latest adventure?

Do these children understand what a soldier is and what he does?

Romanticizing war. Good thing her legs aren't blown off.

Ready, aim, shoot... people that never wronged you or your country.

From this moment on, you do not think. You only do as you're told.

I think it's pretty clear that crossing military and children makes me very uneasy

I completely understand where your coming from. I spent 5+ years as a cadet and I learned really important life skills, communicating, teamwork, leadership and made a ton of friends through it, the thing is that theres really no obligation for you to join the military at all, I graduated last year, and many of us that did graduate didn't go the Military route at all, out of the 8 maybe only 2 did, when I was a kid starting out, I was pretty shy and all and now I feel much better when talking to large groups of people, and it isnt everyone's cup of tea, me and sister turned out just fine, and we became better people out of it.

[ScotianLifestyle]

I stress on the kids that I teach that you don't have join the military after cadets, and personally "I dont feel groomed for war", if I wanted to feel "groomed", I would of went to reserves, they have "kids" that are 16,17,18 joining that, also having a picture of cadets doing PT doesn't really solidfy "playing war for real".

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

So instead of joining a gang where hurting and killing others is illegal , they should join an organisation where hurting and killing others is legal and you will be rewarded for it .

You see, thoughts like these are just as frustrating to listen to as the "they died for our freedoms" crap. This is not the USA. We don't have a strong patriotic culture, and we have not had an event like 9/11 to mobilize volunteers. If you truly believe that Canadians joined the air force just so they can drop bombs on the ragheads, you are using foolishness to argue against foolishness. For most members, THE MILITARY IS A JUST A WAY OF LIFE. Maybe a family tradition. Maybe because of the benefits. Maybe because you're taken care of and it pays well. Maybe because you can sorta travel for free. Maybe because you need structure and order in your life. And just maybe because you feel such strong pride for your country and want a license to kill.

So just like the patriotic idiots need to get off their high horse, you need to get off your high horse and acknowledge the truth: the modern CAF is a career choice. And due to the drilling nature of the military, the cadets are a VERY enticing option for parents who are struggling to control their kids.

[ScotianLifestyle]

You see, thoughts like these are just as frustrating to listen to as the "they died for our freedoms" crap. This is not the USA. We don't have a strong patriotic culture, and we have not had an event like 9/11 to mobilize volunteers. If you truly believe that Canadians joined the air force just so they can drop bombs on the ragheads, you are using foolishness to argue against foolishness. For most members, THE MILITARY IS A JUST A WAY OF LIFE. Maybe a family tradition. Maybe because of the benefits. Maybe because you're taken care of and it pays well. Maybe because you can sorta travel for free. Maybe because you need structure and order in your life. And just maybe because you feel such strong pride for your country and want a license to kill.

So just like the patriotic idiots need to get off their high horse, you need to get off your high horse and acknowledge the truth: the modern CAF is a career choice. And due to the drilling nature of the military, the cadets are a VERY enticing option for parents who are struggling to control their kids.

There's a fair amount of kids that don't always come from well off families to do cadets, and they really dont have enough money to put them in other programs.

[Apple Juice]

I dont think it's doing the kids any harm. I was never in cadets myself but my older brother and sister were and they both eventually joined the regular airforce. My sister opted out fairly early and became a homemaker but my brother has gone on to have a very successful 20 year military career, and they're both very normal people.

Cadets isn't a bad thing although it might not be for everybody, so as long as kids aren't forced into it I think it's good. It doesn't cost money to be involved in, the cadets actually make money when they go to camp, and it keeps them from becoming overweight couch potatoes. Additionally it teaches respect as well, which I think has become lacking amongst a lot of younger people. Cadets has more pros than cons the way I see it.

Yeah. I've got a couple friends in cadet and they make a buttload of money when they go to camp during the summer. Plus, alcohol is a lot cheaper in an army camp.

[Buddhas Hand]

You see, thoughts like these are just as frustrating to listen to as the "they died for our freedoms" crap. This is not the USA. We don't have a strong patriotic culture, and we have not had an event like 9/11 to mobilize volunteers. If you truly believe that Canadians joined the air force just so they can drop bombs on the ragheads, you are using foolishness to argue against foolishness. For most members, THE MILITARY IS A JUST A WAY OF LIFE. Maybe a family tradition. Maybe because of the benefits. Maybe because you're taken care of and it pays well. Maybe because you can sorta travel for free. Maybe because you need structure and order in your life. And just maybe because you feel such strong pride for your country and want a license to kill.

So just like the patriotic idiots need to get off their high horse, you need to get off your high horse and acknowledge the truth: the modern CAF is a career choice. And due to the drilling nature of the military, the cadets are a VERY enticing option for parents who are struggling to control their kids.

This stupidity in this post illustrates why we have and probably always will send men to die in pointless conflicts for no good reason.

[nucklehead]

Don't know, I joined at 16 and lasted about a month.

[TGokou]

I can see that you have a lot of preconceptions about what cadets are and I can tell you that majority of them are wrong.

Whether or not you agree with what our military does/doesn't do should have no reflection upon what cadets teach. I was an air cadet from age 12-17 and learned many valuable skills. At no point did I ever feel pressured to join the military nor did they ever try to indoctrinate you to be open to the possibility of joining the military. After highschool I went to UBC and got a degree and job just like any normal human being.

In cadets, you learn about leadership skills, teamwork, discipline, public speaking, survival skills in the wilderness among many other topics of interest. On top of that you learn respect for your seniors which many children these days have no concept of. Physical activity is a huge part of the cadet program. Almost everything you learn has real world applications ....can't say that about most programs you put your kids into.

During the summer there are many camps for you to attend depending on your preferences. Some go to flight school while others decide to do band. Best thing is I believe you get paid to go (at least they used to). If I wasn't at summer camp I'd probably be at home on my computer or playing video games. Going to camp forces you to be outside doing physical activity every single day as well as learning many valuable skills. One of my classmates took the flight school camp and is now an air canada pilot.

Almost every single kids activity out there costs $$$ to put them into a program. Air cadets (as well as sea or army) don't have to pay a single dime out of their pocket. Of course that means they need funding somehow and that's why you see them outside stores. You'll also see them at remembrance day ceremonies etc because they do want to teach you the importance of honoring our fallen soldiers. Even if you disagree with what our current military does, I'm sure you can't deny the importance of our military impact and importance in WWI and WWII. If you do then there's no hope for you.

I'm not sure if your a parent or not but if your willing to look past your misconceptions you'll realize that the skills/education/activities learned far outweigh any negatives (which I'm pretty sure there are none). When my son is of age I will be placing him in air cadets so he can get the same benefit that I did.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

This stupidity in this post illustrates why we have and probably always will send men to die in pointless conflicts for no good reason.

If they wish to serve as regulars, this is the risk they take. It's a JOB. There is no conscription in Canada. You do not get to use this as a platform to push your anti-war message. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with international war. So stop trying to spin it as such.

[Buddhas Hand]

If they wish to serve as regulars, this is the risk they take. It's a JOB. There is no conscription in Canada. You do not get to use this as a platform to push your anti-war message. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with international war. So stop trying to spin it as such.

Training people to maim and kill other people is a job sure , but I can think of a lot better things's we could spend our money and resources on .

Armies have nothing to with international war ?

[elvis15]

I completely understand where your coming from. I spent 5+ years as a cadet and I learned really important life skills, communicating, teamwork, leadership and made a ton of friends through it, the thing is that theres really no obligation for you to join the military at all, I graduated last year, and many of us that did graduate didn't go the Military route at all, out of the 8 maybe only 2 did, when I was a kid starting out, I was pretty shy and all and now I feel much better when talking to large groups of people, and it isnt everyone's cup of tea, me and sister turned out just fine, and we became better people out of it.

What's that? It's not indoctrination into joining the military or supporting more money for defense budgets? And you actually learn something from your time spent there, just like you would playing sports or being in the cub scouts? Shocking...

I don't get the negative association the OP has with this as if they're an extension of our military or were grooming the next Hitler youth. A friend of mine was active as a kid and is still active now in cadets as an adult, helping the younger kids. She joined the air cadets since she wanted to be a pilot, and she is one now.

My nephew is in cadets and enjoys it. He's met new friends there and has learned more about responsibility and is a pretty well behaved kid as a result. It was his choice from the get go, and I'm proud of him for it.

To the OP, how do you feel it's different/worse than having a child join Karate/play hockey/go to Sunday school?

This stupidity in this post illustrates why we have and probably always will send men to die in pointless conflicts for no good reason.

I agree with you in a lot of other threads, but I disagree with you here. Bob acknowledges that some may join the military for that license to kill, but I doubt those kind of people want to spend years in cadets learning mostly about other things.

What he is saying however is it's totally an option for a career, just like farming, office work or a technical trade. There's more instruction and structure involved than just dumping your kid off at the hockey rink or pool, and a lot of kids benefit from that.

What I think too many people are doing here is associating cadets with government led decisions about our adult military, or maybe more so the adult military of the other countries that don't have as good a reputation as ours. Wasteful spending or 'bringing democracy to the heathens' are real errors in adult militaries, but there is no real connection between that and cadets.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

Training people to maim and kill other people is a job sure , but I can think of a lot better things's we could spend our money and resources on .

Armies have nothing to with international war ?

We have been talking about cadets. And then I shifted to military as a career. Military deployment is government policy. So feel free to criticize Harper's Conservatives all you want. When comes to all things military-related, he absolutely deserves the heat. But you seem to be living in some fantasy world where every Canadian who joins the cadets or armed forces is training to become a Navy SEAL.

A whole bunch of cadets have already posted here talking about how they basically learned everything but to kill. This isn't basic training. And after any member of the armed forces completes basic training, I can bet my ass a majority of them go into something that does NOT involve maiming and killing. We spend our money and resources on training engineers, medical staff, technicians, even cooks! I sound like a goddamned recruiter, but your ignorance has forced me to treat you like an uneducated child. So if you plan on giving yet ANOTHER useless response about "maiming and killing", you can just leave the thread, since you clearly have no intention of having a real dialogue.

[ScotianLifestyle]

We have been talking about cadets. And then I shifted to military as a career. Military deployment is government policy. So feel free to criticize Harper's Conservatives all you want. When comes to all things military-related, he absolutely deserves the heat. But you seem to be living in some fantasy world where every Canadian who joins the cadets or armed forces is training to become a Navy SEAL.

A whole bunch of cadets have already posted here talking about how they basically learned everything but to kill. This isn't basic training. And after any member of the armed forces completes basic training, I can bet my ass a majority of them go into something that does NOT involve maiming and killing. We spend our money and resources on training engineers, medical staff, technicians, even cooks! I sound like a goddamned recruiter, but your ignorance has forced me to treat you like an uneducated child. So if you plan on giving yet ANOTHER useless response about "maiming and killing", you can just leave the thread, since you clearly have no intention of having a real dialogue.

Nailed it.

Lets be honest here OP, and I want to drive this point home to you.

When your in deep in the program and I had a chance to teach them, its life skills that will benefit them when they are older and they become much better people in the end. When I was a staff cadet teaching 12 year olds, I wasn't teaching them combat, I was teaching them things that will benefit them in their personal lives and in school, it's absolutely fufilling when they struggled so hard when you first meet them, and a year later, they are a completely different person and full of confidence and succeeding.

I'm not in it to kill people or learn about combat, its helping them become better people than the first time they walked in.

Just an FYI: The majority of my graduating group went on to UNIVERSITY.(I'm a Crim Major, and has nothing to do with my invovlement with the cadet program as a whole.)

[ScotianLifestyle]

So instead of joining a gang where hurting and killing others is illegal , they should join an organisation where hurting and killing others is legal and you will be rewarded for it .

You really don't have any idea what you're talking about, I volunteer with an Air Cadet unit and guess what, we don't "hunt and kill people", instead for those Officers that have their Glider or Power License, we teach the ones that are willing to fly, I teach kids how to play hockey, etc. You need research before you start spouting off garbage that isn't true.

[hbn316]

Echoing Bob and Elvis, for this discussion to be fruitful, everyone needs to separate out Cadets from the Government of Canada and its military/foreign policy. Cadets, including those in OP's pictures, have nothing to do with forming or implementing those policies.

@lockout casualty

Cadets (founded 1879) and other organizations like the YMCA (1844), or even the British Columbia Youth Parliament (1924) were all created to keep youth (originally only boys and later girls) from getting into trouble. All have their differing philosophies on how to go about it, obviously.

The time where those organizations were founded is also a time before organized sports leagues as we know them existed, so sending the city kids for militia based training might have made a lot of sense. (If you lived on a farm, there was likely still lots of work to do, so you might have stayed largely out of trouble.)

Could other organizations fill the needs? Sure, Scouts Canada might provide winter survival training, but Cadets continues to exist because the Government of Canada continues to fund it and perhaps it meets needs (in availability or scope) that other organizations cannot or do not.

Each of my siblings (but not myself) were put in cadets. One brother even became squadron commander for his air cadet squadron, but not one of my siblings shows any interest in joining the military.

About your disdain for parents grooming their children. Note all the Asian kids in those pictures. Asian parents are notorious for wanting to have their kids be doctors, lawyers, and engineers. Those parents do not want their kids to become soldiers, as often the places they come from soldiers are tools of oppression and/or are corrupt. Asian parents do however value the structure and discipline that comes from cadets. If the kids happen to learn how to survive in the bush, or learn to fly a plane for free, so much the better.

To be honest, I'm not sure if the rationale for any parents putting their kids in cadets differs much from those Asian kids' parents too.

I'm not sure where the what gives you the idea that cadets might "romanticize" the idea of war any more than GI JOE (cartoon or the movies), Transformers, Call of Duty or Halo does? Remember the A-Team? A popular 80s TV show where thousands of rounds of ammo were "shot", but never once was anyone killed or maimed? I loved Transformers, GI JOE, and the A-Team, and I can't say I have any interest in shooting a real gun, let alone running off to war.

The Navy League (those little kids in navy uniforms you have a picture of) has decided to stop using those fake rifles as part of their drill. Apparently gives people the wrong impression...

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/not-a-para-military-organization-navy-cadets-to-stop-using-replica-rifles-over-bad-image-of-kids-carrying-guns

I hope that as you read through this thread and maybe meet actual people who were in cadets, you might realize that your characterization of this organization is mistaken. Perhaps next time you see one of those kids asking for donations, you might ask them what the organization is all about.

@Bhudda's Hand - why spend money on this?

Ah, the perils of living in a democracy. Systems of delegated authority have a habit of spending $ on things we don't support.

Governments always try to have programs to try and get youth employed or to stay out of trouble. Cadets is just one of the many (past, present, and future), and this one enjoys the pseudo support of this government.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/military-budget-cuts-leave-cadets-without-parkas-1.1608123

Historically there has been the "Summer Youth Employment Program" which bridged unemployed youth into the military. There have been other ones like Katimavik, Summer Work - Student Exchange, and FSWEP. The current federal government seems to be moving away from programs like the first two (read cut), and is focusing on funding people joining the trades.

Perhaps a different government will be elected this year, and the funding priorities will change. We'll just have to see.

[McBackup]

All the kids who were in Cadets when I was in school were the weird kids with antisocial tendencies. From my layman's opinion, I can see how it might be beneficial to give them a group to belong to that attempts to instill discipline and camaraderie and blah blah, but I also question grouping these kids together and giving them military type conditioning.

[Webster6]

but I also question grouping these kids together and giving them military type conditioning.

This is essentially the concern the OP raised.

[drummer4now]

All the kids who were in Cadets when I was in school were the weird kids with antisocial tendencies. From my layman's opinion, I can see how it might be beneficial to give them a group to belong to that attempts to instill discipline and camaraderie and blah blah, but I also question grouping these kids together and giving them military type conditioning.

This lol..

I remember a group of them when I was in Middle school and High school..

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

All the kids who were in Cadets when I was in school were the weird kids with antisocial tendencies. From my layman's opinion, I can see how it might be beneficial to give them a group to belong to that attempts to instill discipline and camaraderie and blah blah, but I also question grouping these kids together and giving them military type conditioning.

This is essentially the concern the OP raised.

It's just the way the question is frameworked. You can put a nationalist, militarist spin on it like Lockout Casualty: "Are the cadets indoctrinating underage youths?". I countered with the question, "How effective is the drilling nature of military in raising children?" If you really want an answer you're satisfied with, all you have to do is frame the question so it fits your desired response.

[Webster6]