Canadian Cadets

[hbn316]

So you have a problem with Western Imperialist wars and the lack of care shown to soldiers. Possibly even with political parties that make patriotic appeals for support in place of actual sensible policy. What does does it have to do with Cadets?

Potential for military indoctrination? Enough posters here have already noted that joining Cadets does not equal joining the military.

Funny enough buddy in your second video joined the US military because he was inspired by GI JOE and A Few Good Men...

As for the "anti-social people in cadets" comments. There are lots of anti-social/weird people in society, you meet them on the bus, they're in the band, they play Dungeons and Dragons, they're skaters, they're everywhere, not just confined to Cadets, the Band, or the chess club.

As for teaching them skills you wouldn't want them to learn. Have you seen the stuff you get access to in high school chemistry? Have you seen what can be found on google? Did you know that the military uses Call of Duty style games to teach military tactics?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/video-games-play-growing-role-in-canada-s-military-training-1.2474171

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/22/call-of-duty-gaming-role-military-entertainment-complex

[Salmonberries]

I spent a year in Air cadets (Space cadets?) as a young teenager mainly because the hall was down the street from my house and there was little else to do around there.

Learned to polish my shoes and belt buckle and to march up and down the street, and to sing a couple of dirty songs.

And that's about it really.

[John Tortorella]

While you live in a bubble it seems.

Any nation with no army and valuable resources gets conquered. It has happened throughout history. Look at middle east. Why does usa not invade peru?

Canada has the second most natural resources and the most fresh water on earth. Have you noticed what we require a military for? Yes we dont have enemies (other then those who hate western world due to usa) and yes usa will protect us at this time. But when the time comes that the usa has a water shortage...

Aren't cadets essentially a more badass version of cub scouts?

I personally don't have an issue with this unless kids are forced into it and/or the military tricks them later on into becoming a soldier.

lol I love that last line...

I see those commercials by the government all the time..

Nowadays what does it defend from? Somali Pirates? It's more like serving and carving out interests in a specific region of the world.

[Lockout Casualty]

What I find striking in this thread is how many of those opposing my view couldn't be bothered to actually understand what's being said and asked. Did this go over your collective heads?

well I don't really understand the purpose of the cadets, which is why I made this thread.

How about this,

I looked up their activities, and I don't see why what they do has to be associated with the armed forces.

Seems like everyone who disagreed with me went on to describe what the cadets do and the benefits they reap, while failing to address the necessity of tying it to the military, which is exactly what I take issue with.

Now then,

Following your reasoning, you must also be against kids and teens playing paintball - a military combat simulation - as well as military-themed video games. Right? Just want to make sure you're not being hypocritical.

In fact, given that the general tone of your post is anti-military, let's just make sure that you don't participate in any quasi-military activities either. Confirm?

That's not following my reasoning. I don't know where you got that silly idea from.

The difference between playing pretend war and joining a government organization affiliated with the Canadian Armed Forces is that the former is make-belief, the latter is not.

In fact? How is my post anti-military? Where does it present any judgement on the military itself, and not the Cadet's affiliation with the military, or military's purpose in later post?

This post just saddens me.

@Lockout Casualty. Try to remove your own preconceptions about the military AND also the nationalist preconception. Try to take a step back and be ambivalent, since you might be able to find the answer yourself. Ask yourself these things. What reasons are there for adults to join the military? Why do parents send their kids to cadets? Then try to framework these questions for other countries. Take South Korea for example. They join the army because they must. For those who choose to join and become officers (or enlisted women), it's just a way of life for the poor and less educated. Kids are sent to boot camps by their parents so that they can get off the computer, learn the values of order and respect.

What I'm trying to say is that in Korea, joining the military is not done out of patriotic spirit. So think about what the modern Canadian military provides. For the record, I wish the CAF would be better off emulating the UN Peacekeepers. There is MUCH more to military than just attacking other countries and shooting people. It's just that the current government has been pushing the army towards that end.

The purpose of this thread is to challenge my admittedly loosely founded preconceptions. Yes, parents may send their kids to get disciplined and active, but why does it have to be a quasi-military, government sponsored program, and not a regular camp?

It's pretty sad that the military can be a way of life for people. Especially in Canada. It's rather ironic that Canadian military can be argued to be the biggest welfare program in the country, while having the strongest support among those opposed to welfare programs. Cognitive dissonance at its finest, I would say. Or par for the course for the right wing. I digress.

I am talking about dealing with domestic matters. Emergency services for when a disaster strikes a community. Assisting police during city parades. Stuff the CAF already does, but just doing it more.

Why don't we have an organization for such purposes, instead of expanding the military's mandate? The police can do their job themselves, I am not very fond of being policed by the armed forces.

[Lockout Casualty]

How many peacekeeping mission have prevented further violence, hint : you can count them on one hand. If you have a better idea how to deal with ISIS and other terror groups, please let the Cdn Government know.

For Lockout Casualty, I spent 26 year in the CAF and from my experience, the majority of people who join have no previous affiliation with any other military institutions. What the Cadets do is foster responsibilities, leadership, teamwork, confidence a sense of belonging. Maybe you would want these same kids to join a street gang instead!

How about we don't throw our soldiers' lives away on a symbolic crusade to stop ISIS? Our presence does not make or break the campaign, we did not contribute to the debacle there, and I don't think humanitarian aid should include dropping bombs along with aid packages.

As for the rest, I don't put too much value into anecdotes, and you failed to address why "responsibilities, leadership, teamwork, confidence a sense of belonging" cannot be taught without military ties. Boot camps simulate army conditions without any affiliation.

Oh, I see you're one of those really smart breed of people that see black and white, either kids are disciplined by the military or they join a gang. You don't want your kids to be criminals? Make them soldiers. That's some good thinking Lou, and certainly shows why you fit in with the CAF so well. I suppose I shouldn't overlook that for 26 years, your thinking cap was collecting dust. I guess you deserve some leniency.

I completely understand where your coming from. I spent 5+ years as a cadet and I learned really important life skills, communicating, teamwork, leadership and made a ton of friends through it, the thing is that theres really no obligation for you to join the military at all, I graduated last year, and many of us that did graduate didn't go the Military route at all, out of the 8 maybe only 2 did, when I was a kid starting out, I was pretty shy and all and now I feel much better when talking to large groups of people, and it isnt everyone's cup of tea, me and sister turned out just fine, and we became better people out of it.

I can see that you have a lot of preconceptions about what cadets are and I can tell you that majority of them are wrong.

Whether or not you agree with what our military does/doesn't do should have no reflection upon what cadets teach. I was an air cadet from age 12-17 and learned many valuable skills. At no point did I ever feel pressured to join the military nor did they ever try to indoctrinate you to be open to the possibility of joining the military. After highschool I went to UBC and got a degree and job just like any normal human being.

In cadets, you learn about leadership skills, teamwork, discipline, public speaking, survival skills in the wilderness among many other topics of interest. On top of that you learn respect for your seniors which many children these days have no concept of. Physical activity is a huge part of the cadet program. Almost everything you learn has real world applications ....can't say that about most programs you put your kids into.

During the summer there are many camps for you to attend depending on your preferences. Some go to flight school while others decide to do band. Best thing is I believe you get paid to go (at least they used to). If I wasn't at summer camp I'd probably be at home on my computer or playing video games. Going to camp forces you to be outside doing physical activity every single day as well as learning many valuable skills. One of my classmates took the flight school camp and is now an air canada pilot.

Almost every single kids activity out there costs $$$ to put them into a program. Air cadets (as well as sea or army) don't have to pay a single dime out of their pocket. Of course that means they need funding somehow and that's why you see them outside stores. You'll also see them at remembrance day ceremonies etc because they do want to teach you the importance of honoring our fallen soldiers. Even if you disagree with what our current military does, I'm sure you can't deny the importance of our military impact and importance in WWI and WWII. If you do then there's no hope for you.

I'm not sure if your a parent or not but if your willing to look past your misconceptions you'll realize that the skills/education/activities learned far outweigh any negatives (which I'm pretty sure there are none). When my son is of age I will be placing him in air cadets so he can get the same benefit that I did.

None of that is unique to the Cadets. The military association is, and that's what is in question in this thread.

The underlined touches on another issue I have. The cadets are a government sponsored program, yet every summer we hear of fundraisers to send kids to camp. Why doesn't the government fund other camps and activities that are equally beneficial to children, but aren't quasi-military? If it does, why do some families still feel unable to send their kids to anything but cadets? Why not boot camps unaffiliated with the military?

What's that? It's not indoctrination into joining the military or supporting more money for defense budgets? And you actually learn something from your time spent there, just like you would playing sports or being in the cub scouts? Shocking...

I don't get the negative association the OP has with this as if they're an extension of our military or were grooming the next Hitler youth. A friend of mine was active as a kid and is still active now in cadets as an adult, helping the younger kids. She joined the air cadets since she wanted to be a pilot, and she is one now.

My nephew is in cadets and enjoys it. He's met new friends there and has learned more about responsibility and is a pretty well behaved kid as a result. It was his choice from the get go, and I'm proud of him for it.

To the OP, how do you feel it's different/worse than having a child join Karate/play hockey/go to Sunday school?

I take issue with the military affiliation (I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over in replying to everyone individually).

I think the conclusion I'm arriving at is that without statistical analysis of how many cadets go on to join the military and how that compares to the general population, it's nigh on impossible to say one way or another whether the Cadets act as an extension of the military. My opinion as stated in previous posts is that no children's organization should have any affiliation with any kind of army. Period. Full stop.

[Lockout Casualty]

Nailed it.

Lets be honest here OP, and I want to drive this point home to you.

When your in deep in the program and I had a chance to teach them, its life skills that will benefit them when they are older and they become much better people in the end. When I was a staff cadet teaching 12 year olds, I wasn't teaching them combat, I was teaching them things that will benefit them in their personal lives and in school, it's absolutely fufilling when they struggled so hard when you first meet them, and a year later, they are a completely different person and full of confidence and succeeding.

I'm not in it to kill people or learn about combat, its helping them become better people than the first time they walked in.

Just an FYI: The majority of my graduating group went on to UNIVERSITY.(I'm a Crim Major, and has nothing to do with my invovlement with the cadet program as a whole.)

So why do it wearing army uniforms and camo fatigues? Again, without statistics it's impossible to point out concrete effects of cadets on military enlistment.

The Cadet Program is one of the largest federally sponsored youth programs in Canada that includes:

The Royal Canadian Sea Cadets;

The Royal Canadian Army Cadets; and

The Royal Canadian Air Cadets.

It is a national program for young Canadians aged 12 to 18 who are interested in participating in a variety of fun, challenging and rewarding activities while learning about the Sea , Army and Air activities of the Canadian Armed Forces.

Cadets are encouraged to become active, responsible members of their communities. They make valuable contributions to Canadian society on a daily basis in terms of environmental, citizenship and community activities.

Cadets also learn valuable life and work skills such as teamwork, leadership and citizenship.

Cadets are not members of the Canadian Armed Forces, nor are they expected to join the military. While they are introduced to Sea, Army and/or Air activities of the Canadian Armed Forces and certain traditions, they are also introduced to many other respectable career choices that are available to them.

Through the Cadet Program, the Government of Canada is investing in today’s youth and Canada’s future.

The Cadet Program is community-based. The program succeeds through strong community support and involvement. Cadets in turn make valuable contributions to their communities.

Something that occurs to me now as I think about this, is that it's not mere affiliation between army and cadets, but the CAF directly sponsors the Cadets. To what end would this happen?

I will get to the rest of the posts later. Time for my mentor talk. :D

[Heretic]

My son was in it for a couple of years, he enjoyed the camaraderie. I enjoyed the respect/discipline training.

Oh, for you lot that thinks "why are we training children to kill" - that's not what it's about.

Think more like, "training children how to defend".

But the real reason is, teaches/prepares these young people to be adults with positive attitudes and self esteem.

[BoKnows]

When I was in grade 6 they came to my school recruiting members, and telling us all about it. They had cadets tell us how awesome it was and why we should join. I almost joined but never did but my friend joined and did not like it at all, couldn't say why but all I know is that he did not like it at all.

[Webster6]

Lets boil it down to what it really is..


I'm against millionaires leading youth off to their graves for profit. Duncan Trussell said it best. It's like they take your kids to an ATM in which they insert the kid. A blending sound is heard, and eventually money dispenses.

GI Joe to Cadets is all essentially propoganda pretending to be fun and learning. But as the saying about conservatives goes.. they only care about babies until they're atcually born. After that they no longer give a sht until they're old enough to serve their country.

[Hugor Hill]

So you have a problem with Western Imperialist wars and the lack of care shown to soldiers. Possibly even with political parties that make patriotic appeals for support in place of actual sensible policy. What does does it have to do with Cadets?

Potential for military indoctrination? Enough posters here have already noted that joining Cadets does not equal joining the military.

Funny enough buddy in your second video joined the US military because he was inspired by GI JOE and A Few Good Men...

As for the "anti-social people in cadets" comments. There are lots of anti-social/weird people in society, you meet them on the bus, they're in the band, they play Dungeons and Dragons, they're skaters, they're everywhere, not just confined to Cadets, the Band, or the chess club.

As for teaching them skills you wouldn't want them to learn. Have you seen the stuff you get access to in high school chemistry? Have you seen what can be found on google? Did you know that the military uses Call of Duty style games to teach military tactics?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/video-games-play-growing-role-in-canada-s-military-training-1.2474171

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/22/call-of-duty-gaming-role-military-entertainment-complex

All these are good points, but the issue here that separates cadets with the others is that The Cadets institutionalizes and legitimizes their activities and believes.

But generally they seem like good kids trying to do good.

[Webster6]

I just think it's ridiculous to leave the development of your child to a state run institution. It's terrible parenting in my opinion. The kid is already force fed how to behave at school. You probably just don't have enough time to properly teach and/or discipline your child. You need to realize they're gonna come back with more than just learning how to make their bed perfectly, or shine their boots nicely. They're gonna come back with an institutionalized mentality towards conflict, as well grotesque sense of nationalistic pride.

[Gurn]

"As for the "anti-social people in cadets" comments. There are lots of anti-social/weird people in society, you meet them on the bus, they're in the band, they play Dungeons and Dragons, they're skaters, they're everywhere, not just confined to Cadets, the Band, or the chess club. "

Hey, back off on the chess club reference or we will have a problem, capiche?

[Dazzle]

I can see that you have a lot of preconceptions about what cadets are and I can tell you that majority of them are wrong.

Whether or not you agree with what our military does/doesn't do should have no reflection upon what cadets teach. I was an air cadet from age 12-17 and learned many valuable skills. At no point did I ever feel pressured to join the military nor did they ever try to indoctrinate you to be open to the possibility of joining the military. After highschool I went to UBC and got a degree and job just like any normal human being.

In cadets, you learn about leadership skills, teamwork, discipline, public speaking, survival skills in the wilderness among many other topics of interest. On top of that you learn respect for your seniors which many children these days have no concept of. Physical activity is a huge part of the cadet program. Almost everything you learn has real world applications ....can't say that about most programs you put your kids into.

During the summer there are many camps for you to attend depending on your preferences. Some go to flight school while others decide to do band. Best thing is I believe you get paid to go (at least they used to). If I wasn't at summer camp I'd probably be at home on my computer or playing video games. Going to camp forces you to be outside doing physical activity every single day as well as learning many valuable skills. One of my classmates took the flight school camp and is now an air canada pilot.

Almost every single kids activity out there costs $$$ to put them into a program. Air cadets (as well as sea or army) don't have to pay a single dime out of their pocket. Of course that means they need funding somehow and that's why you see them outside stores. You'll also see them at remembrance day ceremonies etc because they do want to teach you the importance of honoring our fallen soldiers. Even if you disagree with what our current military does, I'm sure you can't deny the importance of our military impact and importance in WWI and WWII. If you do then there's no hope for you.

I'm not sure if your a parent or not but if your willing to look past your misconceptions you'll realize that the skills/education/activities learned far outweigh any negatives (which I'm pretty sure there are none). When my son is of age I will be placing him in air cadets so he can get the same benefit that I did.

Best post I've read so far.

If I could do cadets at an early age, I would too.

If I had kids, I'd have them do it. They'd make new friends and get a good direction in life as to what they want.

[sonoman]

Comparing Canadian army cadets to Hitler youth earned you a berth on my ignore list. I spent time as an army cadet, and I believe it made me a better person. As another poster above pointed out, there are plenty of antisocial personalities outside the cadet programs. I can't recall meeting any of those types during my time, but is was a different world 40 years ago

[elvis15]

I just think it's ridiculous to leave the development of your child to a state run institution. It's terrible parenting in my opinion. The kid is already force fed how to behave at school. You probably just don't have enough time to properly teach and/or discipline your child. You need to realize they're gonna come back with more than just learning how to make their bed perfectly, or shine their boots nicely. They're gonna come back with an institutionalized mentality towards conflict, as well grotesque sense of nationalistic pride.

What do you think school is? And yet you' have no objection with leaving them in Okanagan Hockey School camps for the summer or Boy Scouts or karate class or whatever else you can think of that's not state run?

And you're confusing what happens to adults in the military with what happens to kids in cadets. We've pointed that out repeatedly and it's been explained by those who've been in cadets but I guess we're all just indoctrinated and can't give a straight answer too...

[Chalky]

It's a lot like this...

It's nothing like this...

[aGENT]

I've got two young boys and I'd love to put them in something as they get older that teaches them team work, leadership, wilderness skills etc...but I'm with Lockout, I have no idea why these groups need to frequently have military (cadets) or religious (scouts) undertones.

I'm also skeptical of the federal funding and ties to military that have already been pointed out in regards to the cadets.

The overall concept is good but the execution and questionable military affiliation make me wish there was just a simple, no strings attached alternative to those groups.

Maybe I'll start something when I win the lottery

[TheRussianRocket.]

Lol @ OP, lol.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

The purpose of this thread is to challenge my admittedly loosely founded preconceptions. Yes, parents may send their kids to get disciplined and active, but why does it have to be a quasi-military, government sponsored program, and not a regular camp?

It's pretty sad that the military can be a way of life for people. Especially in Canada. It's rather ironic that Canadian military can be argued to be the biggest welfare program in the country, while having the strongest support among those opposed to welfare programs. Cognitive dissonance at its finest, I would say. Or par for the course for the right wing. I digress.

Why don't we have an organization for such purposes, instead of expanding the military's mandate? The police can do their job themselves, I am not very fond of being policed by the armed forces.

The drilling nature of the military definitely provides a HUGE draw for parents, besides the fact that it's free camp. And when you send your kid to a "quasi-military" camp, you want one that's legit. If ever you come to the point of considering sending your kid to something like this, you'd wanna make sure that there's nothing inappropriate going on. It is safer to believe in a CAF-backed program than a kids' boot camp. Brings me to my other point that if cadets went to real boot camp (Full Metal Jacket style), there would be a major controversy on our hands. But again, the drilling and legitimacy of the cadets (and that it's free) gives a huge incentive to sending your kids to camp. The armed forces, despite the fact that it IS the armed forces, gives the organization major credibility.

There is a much better chance of the military getting funding than emergency services. I am aware that the current government is supporting neither, but that's beyond the point. The army provides emergency services that no other organization in Canada provides. And the mobility of the armed forces is something you can't ignore. In theory, no hospital can respond to an emergency in an isolated community faster than the armed forces. They've got planes and helicopters and big trucks.

The police cannot handle larger events such as the Olympics. I'm pretty sure they brought troops in to help the police in Vancouver. If the Canucks go the final again and the city decides to take another risk by having outdoor stuff, I wouldn't be surprised if I saw some reservists on guard. There will be times when a police's capacity is put to the limit. Having an army who can perform guard duties is... necessary. Choosing when to use the army is a whole different matter (I know, War Measures Act...).

Lets boil it down to what it really is..

I'm against millionaires leading youth off to their graves for profit. Duncan Trussell said it best. It's like they take your kids to an ATM in which they insert the kid. A blending sound is heard, and eventually money dispenses.

GI Joe to Cadets is all essentially propoganda pretending to be fun and learning. But as the saying about conservatives goes.. they only care about babies until they're atcually born. After that they no longer give a sht until they're old enough to serve their country.

I just think it's ridiculous to leave the development of your child to a state run institution. It's terrible parenting in my opinion. The kid is already force fed how to behave at school. You probably just don't have enough time to properly teach and/or discipline your child. You need to realize they're gonna come back with more than just learning how to make their bed perfectly, or shine their boots nicely. They're gonna come back with an institutionalized mentality towards conflict, as well grotesque sense of nationalistic pride.

Do you homeschool your kids? Because in modern society, the majority of your kids' time will be spent in institutions. One third spent sleeping. One third at school. One third... preferably not at home. After school programs are necessary because of 9 to 5 jobs. Sending your kid to a state-run institution is a lot more reassuring to parents than sending your kid to... something shadier (although most programs that aren't state-run are perfectly fine).

Our past is filled with blood. For the record, I believe that Remembrance Day should be a day where we hold some disdain against the government for sending them to wars that didn't win any freedom for anyone. However, if you truly believe that this is the current state of Canada, there is some delusion going on there. The reserves are a MUCH more effective tool of mobilizing troops than cadets. Personally, I don't know a single cadet that joined the military (anecdotal). On the other hand, over half of my friends who were in the reserves as teenagers are now in a military or paramilitary occupation. I really don't think cadets come home with a grotesque sense of nationalistic pride. Don't you think that would cause some problems among concerned parents?

It's a lot like this...

It's nothing like this...

There is a dead human in that bag. Clearly Canadian Gomer Pyle.

[Ghostsof1915]

Cadets are just more quasi-military than the Scouts. Do you avoid buying girl scout cookies because they have "Duty to God" as a part of their charter? Cadets learn both practical and life skills. If you don't believe in supporting them don't. Bashing them as some Hitler Youth group is completely wrong.

Thanks to the Federal Government, Canada's Coast Guard has been pared to the bone. A lot of search and rescue is done by our Canadian Military. Is that a waste of money? In my opinion we should be using the resources of our Armed Forces more in a day-to-day capacity helping out in the community. You know having soldiers (MP's) for traffic control, engineers assisting in road, surveying, and other building projects, etc. In a major disaster the Armed Forces might be your only help, and the only thing keeping order.

Armies much like any tool can be used in a bad way. Just like a hammer. You can use it to drive nails and build things with. Or bash someone on the head. It's how you use the tool that's important.