What's your excuse for eating meat?

[Mongrel]

1. Is it really though? I think there's a difference between being completely ignorant and unwilling to learn about the effects of your choices compared to having a solid understanding of the negative effects yet continuing to make those choices.

2. The latter is probably worse, I never claimed to be better than anyone.

3. Also my response wasn't only to people with the "I eat it cuz it good" attitude. There was a bunch of other crap in this thread that was incredibly uninformed. It just kind of shocked me.

1. Yes imo it was.

2. I never said you did.

3. cool.

[Mongrel]

LOL I suppose you're right as well. I will depart from this discussion as I emphasize in a stronger way the fight to end human suffering over the fight to end animal suffering. To each their own drummer. Ciao for now.

Saying this is bad but that is worse isn't a great way to argue your point. I get what you're going for here which is kind of what GJ did to you with his passive aggressive "or pretend to" comment which is to say that with all the problems in the world this one should not be a priority. Truthfully though any problem that we have any power to fix or help should be a priority. The "excuse" part of this thread was or at least has turned into a red herring. The real question seems to be do you know how this system works and what can you do about it?

There is no ethical question to eat meat. It doesn't exist anywhere but in our heads but there is an ethical question to how we treat our food. I wouldn't go and beat the crap out of a carrot before I pluck it out of the muck where I've been force feeding it sun light a water and I want to make sure the animals I'm about to eat are treated well.

“I think using animals for food is an ethical thing to do, but we've got to do it right. We've got to give those animals a decent life and we've got to give them a painless death. We owe the animal respect.”

― Temple Grandin

[GLASSJAW]

thank you mongrel for telling me what i meant to say and what the real question is

[vavoom]

 

putting effort? the post took no effort. most of the chimp replies in this thread took no effort, despite a few of them being exhausting. but more importantly, being 89.9999% vegetarian takes absolutely, positively zero effort on my part. none at all.

i see absolutely no connection between caring about inhumane treatment of animals and the environment and sexism or classicism. none at all. regardless of whether or not war is happening somewhere, i still have to eat

your post makes absolutely no sense

 

How is it possible to be 89.9999% vegetarian? Isn't being vegetarian a binary condition (you are or you are not)?

That is like claiming to be a 50% serial killer because you only kill at night.

[GLASSJAW]

   

How is it possible to be 89.9999% vegetarian? Isn't being vegetarian a binary condition (you are or you are not)?

That is like claiming to be a 50% serial killer because you only kill at night.

uh

[TOMapleLaughs]

Well, nasa's working on 3d printing food for astronauts. Step one towards Star Trek-like food replicators? Protein resequencer? Bio-matter resequencer? etc.

[Monteeun]

Eating meat is fine and thats only one side of the matter. How the meat comes to you is another...

I don't think it should be grouped together into one issue.

[Fox Mulder]

I'm going to eat 4 chickens worth of wings at the bar tonight. Go canucks go!

Oh and I hope they were killed ethically and stuff

[Buddhas Hand]

   

How is it possible to be 89.9999% vegetarian? Isn't being vegetarian a binary condition (you are or you are not)?

That is like claiming to be a 50% serial killer because you only kill at night.

The only part of GJ's body that eats meat is his mouth ergo he is only 10.1111% vego.

I eat meat once every 2-3 weeks what % vegatarian am I GJ ?

This report shocked australians and caused the shutdown of the live export trade to Indo.

www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/11/02/3623727.htm

I do agree with your cause GJ , but you being you , you manage to alienate many of the people whose habits you want to change.

[Realtor Rod]

  

How is it possible to be 89.9999% vegetarian? Isn't being vegetarian a binary condition (you are or you are not)?

That is like claiming to be a 50% serial killer because you only kill at night.

Well, I added it up today, I am 21% vegetarian. Very satisfying, I did my part.

[Grapefruits]

I am. I am considering getting my hunting license this season to attempt to get my own meat. I hope to be able to make my own burgers, sausages etc..

Do it, you wont be disappointed. My buddies and I go out and we just split the meat we shoot. Last time out my buddy got a deer. Deer peperoni is soooo good.

There have been trips where we have come home with nothing. Still a good time though to get out in the woods with your buddies and camp.

[No_More_Larchide]

I think you either misread my post or simply do not get it. What's wrong with making people feel bad for eating Costco or Walmart meat? Seriously?

Tell me what is wrong with someone being informed about the ghastly history of their food? Can you give me one legitimate reason as to why I cannot talk about animal torture? Upsetting someone's day is not a good reason. And saying "hey, instead of going to Costco you should shop here" is absolutely no different -- it's just a gentle form of shaming. I'm not here to walk someone through the alternatives. I linked to many articles who discuss many authors who have discussed both sides of the ethical problem. Michael Pollan eats meat. I even linked to an article chosen by the New York Times to reflect the ethical choice of a pro-meat eater.

My post is not about telling anyone how to live, it's asking some people how they come to the conclusions that they arrive at. And if they are part of the farming problem, I am curious how, or why, do they CHOOSE to function as they do,

What a crock, your post was to try to shame and demean people who dont think as you do... There are ways to have discussions, and being a preachy, arrogant, douche is not the way

[GLASSJAW]

What a crock, your post was to try to shame and demean people who dont think as you do... There are ways to have discussions, and being a preachy, arrogant, douche is not the way

is it arrogant and preachy to tell me what my intentions were and what i was doing in my post?

there are ways to have a discussion, and telling me what i meant to say when i said what i said in a discussion is not one of them.

[No_More_Larchide]

What's your excuse for eating meat? I'm saying it like that because it's 2015 and you MUST know how the meat industry works by now. You MUST know how animals are treated or mistreated. So surely you have given this some consideration and made some argument, or some excuse, for why you feel it is ethically, morally, or otherwise justifiably okay to eat meat?

And let's pretend you don't, or that you have your head willfully stuck in the sand.

A 2009 article (there is no reason to believe the stats have significantly changed for the better) from the New Yorker summed up American meat consumption as follows:

35,000,000 cows

150,000,000 pigs

9,000,000,000 birds

You should know that the vast, vast majority of these billions of animals are being killed in completely horrendous ways (the article calls it "barbaric"). The living conditions aren't much better: windowless rooms, excrement everywhere, breathing in straight ammonia, etc. (article goes into more description of the carcasses, sores, and violent scenes found in many, many, many/most farms in America today: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/11/09/flesh-of-your-flesh)

But none of this is new. You know it without having to read it. And that's America. The numbers are different here, and in some cases, so are the conditions (for example, do we not have laws against certain growth hormones?). Buuuut that's a weak thing to hold onto.

Of the hundreds of millions of animals slaughtered here each year, the conditions are still weak. According to The Canadian Federation of Humane Societies, Canada's "Farming, transport and slaughter practices in Canada have remained at the status quo for many years, falling further and further behind countries such as Australia, New Zealand and members of the European Union, where public demand has required progressive policies and legislation for farm animal welfare. For example, many countries and even some U.S. states have introduced legislation mandating the phase-out of battery cages, gestation stalls and veal crates." But again, you probably already know this. You have to be a serious moron to not know that animals are, by and large, mistreated.

If you've read any of Michael Pollan's works or seen his interviews, you will even probably be familiar with misguiding labels which act as nothing more than a tensor for consumer guilt (i.e. 'grass fed' doesn't necessarily mean anything other than that some grass was in its diet, although it would lead many consumers to think the animal has a 'normal' grazing life). So even when you think you are eating ethically, you may actually not be doing so at all. But do you sincerely even take that into consideration?

If you are okay with your dinner living a miserable life, suffering a painful death, and then being transported to your plate -- what about the environment consequences of eating meat?

Damian Carrington of The Guardian writes:

(the New Yorker article also goes into detail about the sea of 'crap' from some farms which fills up more space than that of Californians and Texans combined, each day, creating 'dead zones' and environmental disaster areas)

But again, even the Guardian acknowledges that this isn't necessarily anything new. Even though the data or specifics may be clearer than before, we have known for years that cattle are environmentally dangerous.

The New York Times had a contest recently (2012) for someone to write a short essay arguing for the ethical reason FOR eating meat. The selected winner option is linked here (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/magazine/the-ethicist-contest-winner-give-thanks-for-meat.html?_r=0), but if you read it, also check out the comment section, which has many hilarious responses about how the essay is sort of a failure.

So, if the NYT couldn't really do it, how about us? How do you overlook the fact that your dinner is what it is? I know it sounds condescending, but I don't mean for it to. I think the simple facts of the matter simply MAKE it sound condescending. I'm only asking because I am seriously interested. I am not a vegan or something. This isn't a call to vegetarian arms, I am legitimately curious as to how we make our food choices.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am not a vegetarian, but I do not cook meat on my own. I never make meat-based dishes. But I still have meat on/in some meals when I go out or have dinner with family and stuff like that, maybe 15 times a year or so. I could go the rest of my life without eating meat and be totally happy. If you can't, how do you reconcile that with the fact that individual sentient beings and the environmental world at large may suffer because of your choice?

edit: link to Guardian article: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jul/21/giving-up-beef-reduce-carbon-footprint-more-than-cars

I highlighted the parts of your post that were condescending (even you know they were), opinions, and/or speculation. Also, most of it is conveniently posted at the beginning of the post, where the material is your own, and not copy/pasted from another website.

You claim to want to have a conversation, but call those of us who eat meat idiots before you allow that to happen.

Oh, and to answer your question, I eat meat because it is natural, human beings were meant to eat meat. It has high nutritional value, and hell, it tastes good. If that makes me a bad person, that's fine.

You can disagree with an opinion, but that doesnt make said opinion wrong... Despite what most of your posts in this thread have tried to prove.

[GLASSJAW]

I highlighted the parts of your post that were condescending (even you know they were), opinions, and/or speculation. Also, most of it is conveniently posted at the beginning of the post, where the material is your own, and not copy/pasted from another website.

You claim to want to have a conversation, but call those of us who eat meat idiots before you allow that to happen.

Oh, and to answer your question, I eat meat because it is natural, human beings were meant to eat meat. It has high nutritional value, and hell, it tastes good. If that makes me a bad person, that's fine.

You can disagree with an opinion, but that doesnt make said opinion wrong... Despite what most of your posts in this thread have tried to prove.

not sure why i'm even responding to this, but oh well. where did i call meat eaters idiots? i eat meat. i don't think i'm an idiot.

you were not 'meant' to eat meat. there is no narrative path of your life that is supplied by anyone other than yourself. you have free will, you know? unless you are religious or something, in which case that would be the response to my post.

i actually did agree or sympathize with many posts in this thread. i did disagree with others though. i'm allowed to do that, just as you can disagree with mine -- so artfully, too.

i understand what an 'opinion' means, thank you.

[LaBamba]

I'm at the top of the food chain, it's not my fault a delicious cow does not have the intelligence to avoid capture.

We are omnivores, there is nothing natural about eating nothing but plants.

I do however agree that commercially sold meat is absolute garbage and I limit my consumption. I actually have tried a vegan diet, lasted +/- 3 months and felt like $1,000,000, but it began to wither my lean mass away, and I notice a major loss in endurance and recovery.

I try not to eat meat for a lot of the reasons you mentioned but my personal experience with totally eliminating it was not a good one.

[Lockout Casualty]

not sure why i'm even responding to this, but oh well. where did i call meat eaters idiots? i eat meat. i don't think i'm an idiot.

you were not 'meant' to eat meat. there is no narrative path of your life that is supplied by anyone other than yourself. you have free will, you know? unless you are religious or something, in which case that would be the response to my post.

i actually did agree or sympathize with many posts in this thread. i did disagree with others though. i'm allowed to do that, just as you can disagree with mine -- so artfully, too.

i understand what an 'opinion' means, thank you.

I think it's clear the poster is saying we evolved eating meat, making it part of our balanced diet, ergo meant to eat meat (just as any predator in the wild is meant to eat meat). In this sense, I entirely agree, and our teeth and digestive systems further support this.

I wonder if it's possible to have a balanced diet by eating only locally grown produce, especially in places like Canada, where our flora is limited by cold conditions.

[Realtor Rod]

If meat wasn't good to eat, evolution would have made blood poisonous by now.

[Green Building]

I eat meat because it tastes good. When I braise beef shortribs in onion, garlic, herbs, red wine, and mushroom stock, then put delicately soft portions onto horseradish whipped potatoes, then top it all off with gremolata my mouth has an orgasm.

When it's sunny out and animal fat renders out of meat while sizzling on a hot barbeque with a beer in my hand, the woman I hang out with gets excited, which gets me excited.

When I go to the farm and see how my pigs are being raised, and the quality of life they have, and the quality of food they are eating, I think about how delicious, and fun, and exciting it's going to be when we celebrate the life and consequential death of one of them when having a huge pig roast with tons of friends and family. The meat is so tender is falls off the bone. You can taste the sweet, happy life the pig led led as you give thanks for it giving it's life for so many to enjoy.

Eating properly raised animal flesh is unparallelled. I enjoy grilled onion and fennel, but I enjoy it even more if it sits atop of a crispy piece of charcoal roasted pork belly.

I'm a healthy person. I get all my fruits and vegetables. Fresh produce gives me so much energy, and so much vitality, that I was able to overlook the piss poor insinuative title of this thread and also say that I now eat meat to piss Glassjaw off.

[riffraff]

I eat meat because it tastes good. When I braise beef shortribs in onion, garlic, herbs, red wine, and mushroom stock, then put delicately soft portions onto horseradish whipped potatoes, then top it all off with gremolata my mouth has an orgasm.

When it's sunny out and animal fat renders out of meat while sizzling on a hot barbeque with a beer in my hand, the woman I hang out with gets excited, which gets me excited.

When I go to the farm and see how my pigs are being raised, and the quality of life they have, and the quality of food they are eating, I think about how delicious, and fun, and exciting it's going to be when we celebrate the life and consequential death of one of them when having a huge pig roast with tons of friends and family. The meat is so tender is falls off the bone. You can taste the sweet, happy life the pig led led as you give thanks for it giving it's life for so many to enjoy.

Eating properly raised animal flesh is unparallelled. I enjoy grilled onion and fennel, but I enjoy it even more if it sits atop of a crispy piece of charcoal roasted pork belly.

I'm a healthy person. I get all my fruits and vegetables. Fresh produce gives me so much energy, and so much vitality, that I was able to overlook the piss poor insinuative title of this thread and also say that I now eat meat to piss Glassjaw off.

I think we're done here

http://youtu.be/JW68goC4_es