(Proposal) Building a contender that could compete in 5 years (long read)

[Gretzky to Lemieux]

Trade 1:

To Anaheim: Mccann and 2016 second round pick (Anaheim)

To Vancouver: Shea Theodore

Looking back at the Kesler trade, I feel like we should've just asked for Bonino and their 10th overall pick or getting Theodore instead of Sbisa. Anaheim has lots of stud young defensemen barely into their 20s but lacks a good center prospect. We trade Mccann for Theodore and give them back their second round pick as a bonus since stud defensemen are harder to acquire then stud centers.

The remaining 3 trades all happen at the trade deadline.

Trade 2:

To a contender he waives to: Chris Higgins

To Vancouver: 2016 2nd round pick

We trade Higgins to a contending team that he waives to.

Trade 3:

To St. Louis: Radim Vrbata

To Vancouver: 2016 1st round pick

St Louis would be looking to get over the hump and make a deep playoff run. We give them Vrbata to make up for the loss of Oshie while getting a late 1st round pick in return.

Trade 4:

To Washington: Dan Hamhuis, conditional 2nd round pick (Higgins) turns into our 2nd round pick if Hamhuis doesnt resign, and a conditional 1st round pick (St. Louis) if he doesn't resign

To Vancouver: Madison Bowey

We trade Hamhuis and a late second rounder for Bowey. The Caps are in a win now mode and with Oshie and Williams now on their team I think they could be legit contenders for the cup. Hamhuis shores up their defence while also getting a late second rounder in a deep draft. Many people think this won't work since Hamhuis is an UFA but I think he would resign in Washington because they're cup contenders and Washington is a great city. Even if he doesn't resign, Washington gets an extra 1st rounder in a deep draft and also gets a higher 2nd rounder as well. Hamhuis is still a very good #3 defensemen (especially in the less competitive Eastern conference).

We would have two 1st round picks (if Hamhuis resigns) and a 2nd round pick in next years draft. I think we'll probably have a top 10 pick and I would like us to use it on a #1 center. The reason I want to trade for all these young defensemen is because they are both 20 and are already a couple years into their development which is good for us since defensemen and goalies usually take longer to develop then forwards. We would then be able to be legit cup contenders during 2020-2025.

If everything pans out, I feel like this team could win a cup in 2022

Canucks Lineup in 7 years:

Baertschi(29)-2016 draft(24)-Virtanen(26)

Shinkaruk(27)-Horvat(27)-Boeser(25)

Gaunce(28)-Cassels(27)-Jensen(29)

Kenins(31)-Grenier(31)-Fox(29)

Theodore(27)-Bowey(27)

Clendening(29)-Tanev(32)

Sbisa(32)-Corrado(29)

Markstrom(32)

Demko(26)

Thoughts?

[Baer.]

All teams decline.

Also there was a guy getting paid 7.5 million to replace Oshie, his name is Tarasenko.

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

This team will be fine, all they have to do is make decent trade with Hamuis and Vrbata. Those two trades can save years off this rebuild because Hamuis has a market and is well known by NHL players. Don't mess this up Benning, make a decent trade and draft well and we will be back in the mix in 3 years, otherwise if Benning doesn't make the right trades heading forward we are looking at a 5 year build.

Hamuis and Vrbata are the two pieces that can save this team.

and btw im not over valuing hamuis, just think to yourself if Bieksa got a 2nd rounder what Hamuis can get.

[Warhippy]

Just so we're clear.

Your idea of building a contender in 5 years is wasting valuable trade bait on 2 prospects in Bowey and Theodore?

While giving away what most consider our only 1B comparable center in McCaan?

Fascinating

Alternatively, we could trade Hammer for a 1st and a prospect or 1st and 2nd at the deadline, and Vrbata for roughly the same and pick who WE want instead of trading those self same assets for prospects alone....

Seer the thing about drafting prospects is that it gives us a year by year ability to bring someone in to the NHL instead of not.

Ie. Horvat last year, Gaunce Bear Cheese this year, next year Shinkaruk Grenier, Then Subban Hutton.

Or we trade it all and have those yearly or multi year gaps which is what would happen if we did this. Multi year gaps

[PhillipBlunt]

Trade 1:

To a contender he waives to: Chris Higgins

To Vancouver: 2016 2nd round pick

We trade Higgins to a contending team that he waives to.

Trade 2:

To Anaheim: Mccann and 2016 second round pick (Anaheim)

To Vancouver: Shea Theodore

Looking back at the Kesler trade, I feel like we should've just asked for Bonino and their 10th overall pick or getting Theodore instead of Sbisa. Anaheim has lots of stud young defensemen barely into their 20s but lacks a good center prospect. We trade Mccann for Theodore and give them back their second round pick as a bonus since stud defensemen are harder to acquire then stud centers.

Trade 3:

To St. Louis: Radim Vrbata

To Vancouver: 2016 1st round pick

St Louis would be looking to get over the hump and make a deep playoff run. We give them Vrbata to make up for the loss of Oshie while getting a late 1st round pick in return.

Trade 4:

To Washington: Dan Hamhuis and the 2nd round pick we got for Higgins (turns to St. Louis 2016 1st if Hamhuis doesn't resign)

To Vancouver: Madison Bowey

We trade Hamhuis and a late second rounder for Bowey. The Caps are in a win now mode and with Oshie and Williams now on their team I think they could be legit contenders for the cup. Hamhuis shores up their defence while also getting a late second rounder in a deep draft. Many people think this won't work since Hamhuis is an UFA but I think he would resign in Washington because they're cup contenders and Washington is a great city. He is still a very good #3 defensemen (especially in the less competitive Eastern conference).

We would have two 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick in next years draft. I think we'll probably have a top 10 pick and I would like us to use it on a #1 center. The reason I want to trade for all these young defensemen is because they are both 20 and are already a couple years into their development which is good for us since defensemen and goalies usually take longer to develop then forwards. We would then be able to be legit cup contenders during 2020-2025.

If everything pans out, I feel like this team could win a cup in 2022

Canucks Lineup in 7 years:

Baertschi(29)-2016 draft(24)-Virtanen(26)

Shinkaruk(27)-Horvat(27)-Boeser(25)

Gaunce(28)-Cassels(27)-Jensen(29)

Kenins(31)-Grenier(31)-Fox(29)

Theodore(27)-Bowey(27)

Clendening(29)-Tanev(32)

Corrado(29)-Subban(27)

Markstrom(32)

Demko(26)

Thoughts?

How does Vrbata help any team in the playoffs if he disappeared with Vancouver? The guy is great in the regular season but a ghost in the playoffs.

[Gretzky to Lemieux]

Just so we're clear.

Your idea of building a contender in 5 years is wasting valuable trade bait on 2 prospects in Bowey and Theodore?

While giving away what most consider our only 1B comparable center in McCaan?

Fascinating

Alternatively, we could trade Hammer for a 1st and a prospect or 1st and 2nd at the deadline, and Vrbata for roughly the same and pick who WE want instead of trading those self same assets for prospects alone....

Seer the thing about drafting prospects is that it gives us a year by year ability to bring someone in to the NHL instead of not.

Ie. Horvat last year, Gaunce Bear Cheese this year, next year Shinkaruk Grenier, Then Subban Hutton.

Or we trade it all and have those yearly or multi year gaps which is what would happen if we did this. Multi year gaps

What?

[EdgarM]

 

Trade 1:

To a contender he waives to: Chris Higgins

To Vancouver: 2016 2nd round pick

We trade Higgins to a contending team that he waives to.

Trade 2:

To Anaheim: Mccann and 2016 second round pick (Anaheim)

To Vancouver: Shea Theodore

Looking back at the Kesler trade, I feel like we should've just asked for Bonino and their 10th overall pick or getting Theodore instead of Sbisa. Anaheim has lots of stud young defensemen barely into their 20s but lacks a good center prospect. We trade Mccann for Theodore and give them back their second round pick as a bonus since stud defensemen are harder to acquire then stud centers.

Trade 3:

To St. Louis: Radim Vrbata

To Vancouver: 2016 1st round pick

St Louis would be looking to get over the hump and make a deep playoff run. We give them Vrbata to make up for the loss of Oshie while getting a late 1st round pick in return.

Trade 4:

To Washington: Dan Hamhuis and the 2nd round pick we got for Higgins (turns to St. Louis 2016 1st if Hamhuis doesn't resign)

To Vancouver: Madison Bowey

We trade Hamhuis and a late second rounder for Bowey. The Caps are in a win now mode and with Oshie and Williams now on their team I think they could be legit contenders for the cup. Hamhuis shores up their defence while also getting a late second rounder in a deep draft. Many people think this won't work since Hamhuis is an UFA but I think he would resign in Washington because they're cup contenders and Washington is a great city. He is still a very good #3 defensemen (especially in the less competitive Eastern conference).

We would have two 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick in next years draft. I think we'll probably have a top 10 pick and I would like us to use it on a #1 center. The reason I want to trade for all these young defensemen is because they are both 20 and are already a couple years into their development which is good for us since defensemen and goalies usually take longer to develop then forwards. We would then be able to be legit cup contenders during 2020-2025.

If everything pans out, I feel like this team could win a cup in 2022

Canucks Lineup in 7 years:

Baertschi(29)-2016 draft(24)-Virtanen(26)

Shinkaruk(27)-Horvat(27)-Boeser(25)

Gaunce(28)-Cassels(27)-Jensen(29)

Kenins(31)-Grenier(31)-Fox(29)

Theodore(27)-Bowey(27)

Clendening(29)-Tanev(32)

Corrado(29)-Subban(27)

Markstrom(32)

Demko(26)

Thoughts?

 

So your lineup consists of ALL unproven prospects with the exception of Bo. What are the odds of that happening that ALL of the draft picks make it to the NHL? I think a 100% success rate is HIGHLY unlikely.

Not to mention that they ALL stay in vancouver and sign good contracts, they don't get traded and they ALL PEAK in production at the same time. If you were dreaming this might happen.

[Warhippy]

What?

The very fact you don't get it is troubling.

Hamhuis is worth a 1st+ at the deadline

Vrbata is worth a 1st+ at the deadline.

You want to trade them ++ just to acquire two D prospects.

Instead of simply drafting our own out of the picks we'd garner when we already have D prospects at that age range.

You're basically suggesting we wildly overpay for two prospects instead of drafting guys we have scouted ourselves.

Seems silly

[Gretzky to Lemieux]

The very fact you don't get it is troubling.

Hamhuis is worth a 1st+ at the deadline

Vrbata is worth a 1st+ at the deadline.

You want to trade them ++ just to acquire two D prospects.

Instead of simply drafting our own out of the picks we'd garner when we already have D prospects at that age range.

You're basically suggesting we wildly overpay for two prospects instead of drafting guys we have scouted ourselves.

Seems silly

We could draft our own but these two are already 2 years into their developement and have proven that they can compete at a high level (WHL, AHL, WJC). If we draft our own there's no guarantee they'll be as good and will be years behind in their developement. Vrbata at most is only worth a late 1st especially since he's a UFA and Hamhuis is probably worth just a bit more. Stud defensemen are extremely hard to come by and we'll have to overpay since there's no guarantee that Vrbata and Hamhuis will resign. Do you get my logic now?

[Supra]

Highly highly unrealistic. There's a thing called free agency and prospects not living up to expectations.

[Warhippy]

We could draft our own but these two are already 2 years into their developement and have proven that they can compete at a high level (WHL, AHL, WJC). If we draft our own there's no guarantee they'll be as good and will be years behind in their developement. Vrbata at most is only worth a late 1st especially since he's a UFA and Hamhuis is probably worth just a bit more. Stud defensemen are extremely hard to come by and we'll have to overpay since there's no guarantee that Vrbata and Hamhuis will resign. Do you get my logic now?

Subban has performed at a high level at every stage presented. Corrado was a last minute cut from the WJC

Bowey will cost a damned site more than that as he represents something Washington doesn't have much of in their system.

We couldn't get Theodore as part of the Kesler or Bieksa trades as such we probably won't get him for that price either

In both cases it's not even worth trying and we can recoup a far better return elsewhere at that stage.

I get your logic but these ideas have been done to death already. It is not worth it for us to try neither is it worth it for us to keep adding on to try to procure them.

We have solid D prospects. Let's just use them instead and garner a return elsewhere instead of offering up picks/prospects .

Also, and this is important. If you gave McCaan to Anaheim we would have given away Kesler for scraps which would basically mean Benning admits he was wrong and the Canucks faithful would never ever trust him again.

Get my logic?

[Gretzky to Lemieux]

Subban has performed at a high level at every stage presented. Corrado was a last minute cut from the WJC

Bowey will cost a damned site more than that as he represents something Washington doesn't have much of in their system.

We couldn't get Theodore as part of the Kesler or Bieksa trades as such we probably won't get him for that price either

In both cases it's not even worth trying and we can recoup a far better return elsewhere at that stage.

I get your logic but these ideas have been done to death already. It is not worth it for us to try neither is it worth it for us to keep adding on to try to procure them.

We have solid D prospects. Let's just use them instead and garner a return elsewhere instead of offering up picks/prospects .

Also, and this is important. If you gave McCaan to Anaheim we would have given away Kesler for scraps which would basically mean Benning admits he was wrong and the Canucks faithful would never ever trust him again.

Get my logic?

Now I get lots of what your saying but we definitely could've gotten Theodore in the Kesler deal, Benning just wanted Bonino, Sbisa and a 1st instead of giving up one of those 3 pieces and getting Theodore. I disagree with your statement that Kesler would've been given up for scraps tho, it really depends how Mccann turns out and I think if we trade him for Theodore the Canucks faithful would happy because everyone here wants a stud defensemen. Thanks for explaining your logic to me.

[Warhippy]

Now I get lots of what your saying but we definitely could've gotten Theodore in the Kesler deal, Benning just wanted Bonino, Sbisa and a 1st instead of giving up one of those 3 pieces and getting Theodore. I disagree with your statement that Kesler would've been given up for scraps tho, it really depends how Mccann turns out and I think if we trade him for Theodore the Canucks faithful would happy because everyone here wants a stud defensemen. Thanks for explaining your logic to me.

Sorry if ti came off douche baggy

I just don't see how we could achieve an actual rebuild by giving up what those players would/could be worth and benning would be lynched if we simply gave up McCaan without even looking at him in a Nucks uniform

[J.I.A.H.N]

   

So your lineup consists of ALL unproven prospects with the exception of Bo. What are the odds of that happening that ALL of the draft picks make it to the NHL? I think a 100% success rate is HIGHLY unlikely.

Not to mention that they ALL stay in vancouver and sign good contracts, they don't get traded and they ALL PEAK in production at the same time. If you were dreaming this might happen.

First off I think you are right about the 100% argument, but you are not considering a lot of things. But the Op dealings

#1. you miss Vrbata's 2016 18-30 OA 1st round pick....and I think he spent all our 3nd if I am counting right

#2.You miss Vancouvers 2017-1st 1st to 5th OA, 2nd and 3rd picks, accordingly

#3 You miss the obvious trading of Edler that get's us over the hump in term's of prospect's.........( yes he never mention that one)

Also doesn't mention any UFA addition, that may be goo due to our low cap

[flickyoursedin]

How does Vrbata help any team in the playoffs if he disappeared with Vancouver? The guy is great in the regular season but a ghost in the playoffs.

That was 6 games in the playoffs and he had 4 points. Tell me who on the team had a great playoffs? People have to look at the team instead of pointing fingers at one player. Vbrata was one of our best players last year but when the playoffs got tough the Canucks disappeared (all of them)

[Gretzky to Lemieux]

Sorry if ti came off douche baggy

I just don't see how we could achieve an actual rebuild by giving up what those players would/could be worth and benning would be lynched if we simply gave up McCaan without even looking at him in a Nucks uniform

lol it's ok man I see where you're coming from. We just have some different opinions which is always good for discussion.

[Gretzky to Lemieux]

First off I think you are right about the 100% argument, but you are not considering a lot of things. But the Op dealings

#1. you miss Vrbata's 2016 18-30 OA 1st round pick....and I think he spent all our 3nd if I am counting right

#2.You miss Vancouvers 2017-1st 1st to 5th OA, 2nd and 3rd picks, accordingly

#3 You miss the obvious trading of Edler that get's us over the hump in term's of prospect's.........( yes he never mention that one)

Also doesn't mention any UFA addition, that may be goo due to our low cap

We would still have our own 2nd rounder next year.

[flickyoursedin]

Now I get lots of what your saying but we definitely could've gotten Theodore in the Kesler deal, Benning just wanted Bonino, Sbisa and a 1st instead of giving up one of those 3 pieces and getting Theodore. I disagree with your statement that Kesler would've been given up for scraps tho, it really depends how Mccann turns out and I think if we trade him for Theodore the Canucks faithful would happy because everyone here wants a stud defensemen. Thanks for explaining your logic to me.

At the end of negotiations it was a bid between two teams which brings value down a lot. Benning has always had this fabrication with gathering more picks. I think at the end of it Bonino Sbisa and Theodore probably would have been accepted by Anahiem but Benning took the pick and I am more than pleased with McCann thus far.

[flickyoursedin]

If the Canucks are bottom 5 they should be trading everybody older then Tanev at the trade deadline! if contenders will pay the price.

[Guest]

That was not a long read at all, color me disappointed.