Dr.Strangelove Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I think it's a waste of time.. ITT are monday morning quarterbacks who think people in the 30s and 40s should have been looking at things as they do in the 2010s. Pretty much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I would like to say I wouldn't but the truth is I have no idea what I would have done if I had been in that position and I dont think anyone could truly answer the question of what they would have done rather we can only say what we would like to think we would have done. I believe you would. I have had a gun held to my head and been threatened I could see the head of the bullet down the barrel, then I was shot , the whole time I did not back down and kept on standing up for what I believed in. I know what I would do , that which I have done all my life , that is stand up for what I believe in no matter the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounoush Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 That's a bunch of crap , the whole world knew what was happening after Kristallnacht. They knew Jews were disliked but you have to understand this was a very popular sentiment around the globe at the time (sort of still is today). They maybe didn't, however, know that active killings were being done. Maybe they just figured they were all being deported. I imagine Goebbels would have kept much of the killings silent from the public to not start too much dissension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 My friends parents hid Jews in their house in holland during the war , I have talked to them frequently about this. While it is probably one the hardest decisions one could make putting your loved one's in danger of being killed they felt they had no choice. I would not be OK with my family being executed but sometimes you have to put everything on the line for what you believe in. Your last sentence is it exactly. And this ideal is not something that should change in any generation or context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 And you'd be ok with your family and friends being executed for your resistance ? No, not Ok with that. OK, I've taken some deep breaths and calmed down. I'm not going to debate what I would or wouldn't have done if I was an adult in Germany during WW2. I contend I would have died trying to do the right thing but we'll never now. You can believe that or not, I don't really care. The fact is, this man willingly joined the SS and worked in Auschwitz. He participated in genocide. He deserves to finish his life in jail. I'm out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dral Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'm sure you would know. Alive at 94....he's done a lot of living in those years whereas hundreds of thousands didn't have that luxury. Some never even reached 4. "I saw the gas chambers. I saw the crematoria," he told the BBC in the 2005 documentary Auschwitz: the Nazis and the "Final Solution". "I was on the ramp when the selections [for the gas chambers] took place." He can't very well say he didn't know what was going on so therefore has been convicted and sentenced as an accessory. As he should be. And you know he lived a 'normal', productive and 'happy' life afterwards eh? Considering the work he's done afterwards and his remorse, I highly doubt it... And he didn't say he didn't know what was going on... in fact he said the opposite... and has been quite vocal about it trying to bring awareness to what happened.... I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished - you need to make a statement that you can't get away with being a part of things like this, but using an emotional argument like that is silly. And falsely representing his life doesn't do you any favors either... at least he's trying in, perhaps a small way, to take responsibility and make up for the things hes done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Strangelove Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I believe you would. I have had a gun held to my head and been threatened I could see the head of the bullet down the barrel, then I was shot , the whole time I did not back down and kept on standing up for what I believed in. I know what I would do , that which I have done all my life , that is stand up for what I believe in no matter the consequences. Interesting that make that conclusion without knowing much about me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 They knew Jews were disliked but you have to understand this was a very popular sentiment around the globe at the time (sort of still is today). They maybe didn't, however, know that active killings were being done. Maybe they just figured they were all being deported. I imagine Goebbels would have kept much of the killings silent from the public to not start too much dissension. Exactly , and thats why the german people and the rest of the world did nothing. So many prominent Jews like Einstien left germany and told the rest of the world what was happening in germany. If you were being persecuted would you want someone to speak up for you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Interesting that make that conclusion without knowing much about me I have interacted with you enough to believe that if you were faced with a moral dilemna such as the one we are discussing you would choose to do the right thing. I want to believe in you because I think you are a good person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 From the wiki link " Gröning's responsibilities included sorting and counting the multitude of currencies taken from arriving deportees, sending it to Berlin and to guard the belongings of arrivals until they were sorted.[3]:165 He said he was astonished to learn of the extermination process,[3]:143 but later accepted his part in it, stating that his work became "routine" after several months.[3]:165 However, his bureaucratic job did not shield him completely from physical acts of the extermination process: as early as his first day, Gröning saw children hidden on the train and people unable to walk that had remained among the rubbish and debris after the selection process had been completed, being shot.[3]:138 Gröning also heard: ...a baby crying. The child was lying on the ramp, wrapped in rags. A mother had left it behind, perhaps because she knew that women with infants were sent to the gas chambers immediately. I saw another SS soldier grab the baby by the legs. The crying had bothered him. He smashed the baby's head against the iron side of a truck until it was silent.[4] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerridwen Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 And you know he lived a 'normal', productive and 'happy' life afterwards eh? Considering the work he's done afterwards and his remorse, I highly doubt it... And he didn't say he didn't know what was going on... in fact he said the opposite... and has been quite vocal about it trying to bring awareness to what happened.... I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished - you need to make a statement that you can't get away with being a part of things like this, but using an emotional argument like that is silly. And falsely representing his life doesn't do you any favors either... at least he's trying in, perhaps a small way, to take responsibility and make up for the things hes done. "Gröning led a normal middle-class life after the war.[4]" "He was unable to regain his job at the bank due to having been a member of the SS, so he got a job at a glass factory, working his way up to a management position.[3]:288 He became head of personnel, and was made an honorary judge of industrial tribunal cases.[3]:298" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gr%C3%B6ning Mmm hmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Strangelove Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I have interacted with you enough to believe that if you were faced with a moral dilemna such as the one we are discussing you would choose to do the right thing. I want to believe in you because I think you are a good person. Your post said you thought I would , I misunderstood sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounoush Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I have interacted with you enough to believe that if you were faced with a moral dilemna such as the one we are discussing you would choose to do the right thing. I want to believe in you because I think you are a good person. Wanting to do the right thing and actually doing the right thing are very different. Am I supposed to call all of the people on flights 11, 175 and 77 cowards because the people on flight 93 actually tried to stop the terrorists on 9/11? Fear and shock are extremely powerful agents. A human being will usually always look to self preservation as their most basic instinct because who wants to die when they don't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dral Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 "Gröning led a normal middle-class life after the war.[4]" "He was unable to regain his job at the bank due to having been a member of the SS, so he got a job at a glass factory, working his way up to a management position.[3]:288 He became head of personnel, and was made an honorary judge of industrial tribunal cases.[3]:298" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gr%C3%B6ning Mmm hmmm.... Well if anything is great evidence for snap decisions its a wikipedia quote... I stand corrected - he MUST have truly lead a normal, happy life after witnessing the things he did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummer4now Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Like others have mentioned it's easier to just sit and think about when not faced with the actual situation, but if you're in it then it really depends on the individual and how strongly they feel towards a certain cause or dilemma.. Some will oblige like sheeple and others will fight! Again it's all human nature.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Wanting to do the right thing and actually doing the right thing are very different. Am I supposed to call all of the people on flights 11, 175 and 77 cowards because the people on flight 93 actually tried to stop the terrorists on 9/11? Fear and shock are extremely powerful agents. A human being will usually always look to self preservation as their most basic instinct because who wants to die when they don't have to. Some human being's being will fight for what they believe in no matter what others think or what the consequences are. I am one of those people ... it has gotten me into trouble before and it will again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerridwen Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Well if anything is great evidence for snap decisions its a wikipedia quote... I stand corrected - he MUST have truly lead a normal, happy life after witnessing the things he did... How about the BBC? "Instead he began a normal, middle-class life in Lueneburg Heath in Lower Saxony, where he worked at a glass-making factory until retirement." http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32336353 Not to mention the reputable references at the bottom of the Wikipedia article? .Auschwitz: the Nazis & the 'final solution'. London: BBC Books. ISBN 0-563-52117-1. OCLC 57541764. Retrieved 2 February 2015. The Bookkeeper from Auschwitz". Der Spiegel. Archived from the original on 2 March 2007. Retrieved 22 April 2015. Picking a fight just for picking a fight's sake is only derailing the thread and is beneath you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounoush Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Some human being's being will fight for what they believe in no matter what others think or what the consequences are. I am one of those people ... it has gotten me into trouble before and it will again. That's good. That makes you stronger. Don't be so quick to cast judgement on others because they are too scared, unsure, etc. though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummer4now Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 And you know he lived a 'normal', productive and 'happy' life afterwards eh? Considering the work he's done afterwards and his remorse, I highly doubt it... And he didn't say he didn't know what was going on... in fact he said the opposite... and has been quite vocal about it trying to bring awareness to what happened.... I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished - you need to make a statement that you can't get away with being a part of things like this, but using an emotional argument like that is silly. And falsely representing his life doesn't do you any favors either... at least he's trying in, perhaps a small way, to take responsibility and make up for the things hes done. One of my old neighbours was an ex Nazi.. We didn't find out till he passed away. Before passing away he was a very friendly man, his relatives did briefly mention that he was guilty, remorseful, and had routine nightmares for what he did to people. He even killed two Canadian soldiers yet somehow found a way to immigrate to Canada... I am not sure how I would react if I knew earlier that he was a Nazi.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Some human being's being will fight for what they believe in no matter what others think or what the consequences are. I am one of those people ... it has gotten me into trouble before and it will again. Good on you. A lot of people love their life too much. Respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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