Canucks’ four biggest mistakes of the past year

[Honky Cat]

I was saying this through the 13/14 season. His finish to the season gave me hope he was actually going to become something. The 14/15 season he just pissed me off. Inconsistent, stupid (and often selfish) penalties, no defensive effort. The icing was Henrik publicly saying "shut up and play better" when he was whining to the press about being a healthy scratch. Henrik never says anything bad about a teammate. That comment tells me even his teammates were fed up with him. Good riddance. He can be another teams source of frustration. Prust may not have Kassians skill, but at least he plays his role and puts in 100% effort.

How do you build an asset who won't put in the effort himself?

How do you sell an asset to a team when its at its lowest value...?.....For 29 other teams to refuse Kassian,it must have been low indeed.....I'm almost thinking that the 5th we gave to the Habs, was for Prust,..Kassian was the extra throw in.

[shiznak]

It's hard to lead by example on the ice when the kids at 18 are better than you. Hall, RNH and Eberle were awarded first line status from their first shift in the league. They were looked upon by the team as the players to carrier the team into the playoffs. There's a difference in having older players that had been through it at one point and having a vet can still show you how to do it. Again take Gio as an example. He is the hardest worker on and off the ice. He also has the ability to be the guy the team can rely on when they need someone to step up and take control of the game.

Smyth was washed up by the time he went back to EDM. He was about as able to lead by example as Mike Keane was in vancouver. Working hard and leading by example are two different things.

This is leading by example. Big game and who shows up.

Did you just compare Ryan Smyth (Captain Canada) to Mike Keenan? Ask anybody in the hockey world from executives to players, and they would probably say Smyth is one of the hardest working guys in the league. He's been on all-star teams, and captained his country on many levels.

Here's a direct quote from Hall himself:

“He’s brought a lot to our young group. Just him talking to our group this morning, really emphasizing the fact that it’s a privilege to play this game and he just reiterated that it is a lot of fun to play this game and to be a part of the group of guys that we have and day-after-day coming into the rink is truly something you should be grateful for. There’s a lot of things you can take from Smytty, a lot of things he did on the ice so well and in the room as well. He’s just a cheerful guy and a pleasure to be around.”

[Riggs]

The ridiculous overpayment to Brandon Sutter is bad but trading Zack Kassian will go down as the worst move in franchise history.

For far too long the Canucks have been soft as marshmallows and gotten pushed around, especially in the playoffs. It has become a running joke and what did Benning decide to do about it? Get an undersize punching bag name Dorsett. It became clear Dorsett was not nearly enough to make this team as abrasive as it needs to be. He follows this up by trading away the biggest, toughest, most skilled power forward on the team for an undersized, aging grinder punching bag named Prust.

Other Vancouver GMs have made some moronic moves but nothing will top what Benning did with Kassian. Montreal is desperate for size and scoring and they won't be stupid enough to stick Kassian on the 3rd line and ask for stellar defensive play before giving him a regular chance in the top-6 where he belongs. He is going to flourish because they will give him an actual shot to use his skill and not turn him into a grinder.

No wonder this team can't win a Cup. Best goalie in franchise history? TRADE HIM! A young, skilled power forward who plays with an edge? NO ROOM FOR YOU! MOOOAAAARRR Vey, Higgins, Dorsett, and Prust clones! This team is headed for a faceplant and will waste the remaining years of the Sedins' contracts. Shameful.

[Mattrek]

The ridiculous overpayment to Brandon Sutter is bad but trading Zack Kassian will go down as the worst move in franchise history.

For far too long the Canucks have been soft as marshmallows and gotten pushed around, especially in the playoffs. It has become a running joke and what did Benning decide to do about it? Get an undersize punching bag name Dorsett. It became clear Dorsett was not nearly enough to make this team as abrasive as it needs to be. He follows this up by trading away the biggest, toughest, most skilled power forward on the team for an undersized, aging grinder punching bag named Prust.

Other Vancouver GMs have made some moronic moves but nothing will top what Benning did with Kassian. Montreal is desperate for size and scoring and they won't be stupid enough to stick Kassian on the 3rd line and ask for stellar defensive play before giving him a regular chance in the top-6 where he belongs. He is going to flourish because they will give him an actual shot to use his skill and not turn him into a grinder.

No wonder this team can't win a Cup. Best goalie in franchise history? TRADE HIM! A young, skilled power forward who plays with an edge? NO ROOM FOR YOU! MOOOAAAARRR Vey, Higgins, Dorsett, and Prust clones! This team is headed for a faceplant and will waste the remaining years of the Sedins' contracts. Shameful.

I stopped reading after you said "trading Zack Kassian will go down as the worst move in franchise history". There's just no point in continuing after that statement.

[Riggs]

I stopped reading after you said "trading Zack Kassian will go down as the worst move in franchise history". There's just no point in continuing after that statement.

Good thing you posted here. Well done, champ.

[ice orca]

The ridiculous overpayment to Brandon Sutter is bad but trading Zack Kassian will go down as the worst move in franchise history.

For far too long the Canucks have been soft as marshmallows and gotten pushed around, especially in the playoffs. It has become a running joke and what did Benning decide to do about it? Get an undersize punching bag name Dorsett. It became clear Dorsett was not nearly enough to make this team as abrasive as it needs to be. He follows this up by trading away the biggest, toughest, most skilled power forward on the team for an undersized, aging grinder punching bag named Prust.

Other Vancouver GMs have made some moronic moves but nothing will top what Benning did with Kassian. Montreal is desperate for size and scoring and they won't be stupid enough to stick Kassian on the 3rd line and ask for stellar defensive play before giving him a regular chance in the top-6 where he belongs. He is going to flourish because they will give him an actual shot to use his skill and not turn him into a grinder.

No wonder this team can't win a Cup. Best goalie in franchise history? TRADE HIM! A young, skilled power forward who plays with an edge? NO ROOM FOR YOU! MOOOAAAARRR Vey, Higgins, Dorsett, and Prust clones! This team is headed for a faceplant and will waste the remaining years of the Sedins' contracts. Shameful.

Look out Riggs the army of sheep is about to swarm you.

[puckdontlie]

I agree with the direction to move on from Kassian but agree the return was crappy unless Prust gets flipped for a 3rd rounder at the trade deadline. I can see a scenario where Kenins or Grenier step up their play and make Prust expendable at the deadline. That would at least vindicate the deal a bit.

It's hindsight but the return on Kassian should have been better at last year's trade deadline when he was on a scoring hot streak. Even in the offseason Benning could have waited before pulling the trigger but I guess he's willing to pay a premium for decisive action.

However, I don't think this move is ultimately damaging. Trades that Gillis made were a lot more devastating:

- trading 2nds and 3rds for Steve Bernier

- 1st, Grabner and Bernier for the toxic contract of Ballard

- two expiring contracts for the toxic contract of Booth

Getting Booth and Ballard meant not only giving up assets but wasting cap space for many years. Double whammy. There is only one whammy in the Kassian trade which is giving up assets but Prust's expiring contract mitigates further risk which stops it from being devastating.

From that standpoint I'm OK with the deal when factoring in intangibles.

[stawns]

Disagree, at least in part. I've admitted all along that there were consistency issues for parts of the past few seasons, but very few (if any) of Kassian's detractors has admitted that he was playing well after he was benched and returned to the lineup when Burrows was injured.

His back flared up and he never got back into the lineup, yet the team traded him anyway. That tells me that they had their mind made up about the guy and even though he had (at least partially) addressed the issues that the team had, it wasn't enough.

It may or may not be that he would have been able to continue that improved play, but we'll never know. At least, we'll never know about Vancouver. Montreal may be another story.

It wouldn't be a compelling argument if we had gotten something back for him. People can continue to point at Prust and talk about what a great piece he is, but NHL teams generally do not give up assets for enforcers and they certainly don't throw in extra draft picks to get the deal done.

It was poor asset management, plain and simple.

Horcoff, Hemsky, Penner, Whitney, Gilbert, Jones, Kurtis Foster, Fraser, Smid, Petry, Sutton, Nick Schultz, Gordon, Roy, Pouliot...

...all veteran players who were on the same roster as the three young guns.

People talk about a lack of veteran presence, but the reality is, it was the fact that the kids were the best players the Oil had. All three did everything that was asked of them, (granted Nuge did have some injury problems) but couldn't overcome a porous defense and mediocre goaltending.

Very few are suggesting anything of the sort.

However, just because we still support the Canucks' management team, it doesn't mean we agree with every move they make. It's actually quite common for NHL teams to make poor personnel decisions, so the standard lines "You don't understand the plan" and "Management disagrees with you" aren't all that compelling.

I for one like most of JB's moves, but I have an issue with the goaltending and Kassian situations and none of the commonly recycled "reasons" put forth by those who feel Benning and Linden can do no wrong has made me rethink that assessment.

They've had various fleets of vets in their lineup, for sure, but they gave that team to a group of 18-20 year olds, for better or worse........turned out for the worse. JB and TL are doing it the other way.....easing the kids into supporting roles with no pressure (from fans, media and themselves) while some vets continue with the heavy lifting. The Oilers have not done those kids any favours by putting the burden of the entire organization on their shoulders from the get go and, imo, they have wasted a good chunk of their rfa years toiling in abject failure. If they are able to turn ut around, by the time they get to success, they wont be able to keep that team together.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Did you just compare Ryan Smyth (Captain Canada) to Mike Keenan? Ask anybody in the hockey world from executives to players, and they would probably say Smyth is one of the hardest working guys in the league. He's been on all-star teams, and captained his country on many levels.

Here's a direct quote from Hall himself:

Good back and re-read. Make sure to sound the spelling out very carefully.

[Crabcakes]

The ridiculous overpayment to Brandon Sutter is bad but trading Zack Kassian will go down as the worst move in franchise history.

For far too long the Canucks have been soft as marshmallows and gotten pushed around, especially in the playoffs. It has become a running joke and what did Benning decide to do about it? Get an undersize punching bag name Dorsett. It became clear Dorsett was not nearly enough to make this team as abrasive as it needs to be. He follows this up by trading away the biggest, toughest, most skilled power forward on the team for an undersized, aging grinder punching bag named Prust.

Other Vancouver GMs have made some moronic moves but nothing will top what Benning did with Kassian. Montreal is desperate for size and scoring and they won't be stupid enough to stick Kassian on the 3rd line and ask for stellar defensive play before giving him a regular chance in the top-6 where he belongs. He is going to flourish because they will give him an actual shot to use his skill and not turn him into a grinder.

No wonder this team can't win a Cup. Best goalie in franchise history? TRADE HIM! A young, skilled power forward who plays with an edge? NO ROOM FOR YOU! MOOOAAAARRR Vey, Higgins, Dorsett, and Prust clones! This team is headed for a faceplant and will waste the remaining years of the Sedins' contracts. Shameful.

I hope you feel better......here it comes.....

Trading the great enigma (look it up, it means fruitcake) Zack Kassian is addition by subtraction. ANYTHING in return is a bonus. Actually, if you tally up the score on that trade they probably gave him away effectively for nothing but that's just fine with me. Sure, Kassian has all the tools but he has no tool box. You never know what you're getting with him.

With the Sutter trade, the Canucks got the best asset in the deal so they win. Where did you hear that was a ridiculous overpayment? Jonathan Willis? There's a man with an axe to grind and his article on the 4 Biggest Mistakes is embarrassing in it's shallowness of thought. Bonino is soft and Clendening is a prospect. It was a fair deal. For those who say Sutter can't produce just look at the plugs that have been his line mates. Even the most sceptical must agree to wait and see.

[CanadianRugby]

His plan is simple: 1. Get a few veterans who can teach all the new guys how to play with heart, grit and determination both on and off the ice for the next couple years as we transition. See what happens when there's no veteran presence? One only need to look at Edmonton. 2. Restock our prospect pool 3. Trade prospects/draft picks for already developing and close to developed players that can make the jump to NHL right away. 4. Move out veterans one by one when new guys are ready to take their place. 5. Upgrade players when possible. 6. Instill a hard working culture to the team.

I get it, I don't agree with all the moves Benning has made, but it's obvious to me what he's doing. What can't anyone else see it? He's done wonders with our forwards and next year he'll start working on defense.

Completely contradictory statement typical of the "I get the plan" clan. Are you trying to get younger or get vets? Both. Are you adding or trading away picks/prospects? Both. Are you rebuilding or trying to win the Cup this season? Neither.

This lack of direction is why writers and analysts alike have skewered the Canucks management. These people have been called idiots (even by our moderator) because they dare to do their jobs. Of course, nobody was calling these same people idiots when they praised management for building the contender we had 4 years ago. I think it's most Canuck fans that are... uninformed or biased, and not the writers or analysts.

I still haven't seen anyone who is against tanking come up with a plan to get forwards who can realistically replace the Sedins, or how to get a stud D.

[Mattrek]

Completely contradictory statement typical of the "I get the plan" clan. Are you trying to get younger or get vets? Both. Are you adding or trading away picks/prospects? Both. Are you rebuilding or trying to win the Cup this season? Neither.

This lack of direction is why writers and analysts alike have skewered the Canucks management. These people have been called idiots (even by our moderator) because they dare to do their jobs. Of course, nobody was calling these same people idiots when they praised management for building the contender we had 4 years ago. I think it's most Canuck fans that are... uninformed or biased, and not the writers or analysts.

I still haven't seen anyone who is against tanking come up with a plan to get forwards who can realistically replace the Sedins, or how to get a stud D.

Did you ever think he was maybe stocking our prospect pool so he could also make trades for players being near NHL ready or UFA's down the line? Hmmm there's a thought! It's not all about prospects and it's not all about youth, this is what most of the "Fire Benning Brigade" doesn't get. To have a good hockey team you need a balance. What's the point of having 20 prospects, but not enough slots for them to move up into? Is that so much better? Why have only young guys without the veterans to teach them? How will that work out? The direction Benning is going in is improving our team piece by piece without getting stuck with a player in a long NTC and with a look to the future.

You want to know how to get a stud D? You need young prospects and draft picks. You know how to get a stud forward? You need young prospects and draft picks. To be able to afford to give those up you need enough prospects for your current roster. So guess what you do? You stock the prospect pool as full as possible and then trade for better defenceman or forwards. You do both, not one or the other.

[CanadianRugby]

Did you ever think he was maybe stocking our prospect pool so he could also make trades for players being near NHL ready or UFA's down the line? Hmmm there's a thought! It's not all about prospects and it's not all about youth, this is what most of the "Fire Benning Brigade" doesn't get. To have a good hockey team you need a balance. What's the point of having 20 prospects, but not enough slots for them to move up into? Is that so much better? Why have only young guys without the veterans to teach them? How will that work out? The direction Benning is going in is improving our team piece by piece without getting stuck with a player in a long NTC and with a look to the future.

You want to know how to get a stud D? You need young prospects and draft picks. You know how to get a stud forward? You need young prospects and draft picks. To be able to afford to give those up you need enough prospects for your current roster. So guess what you do? You stock the prospect pool as full as possible and then trade for better defenceman or forwards. You do both, not one or the other.

To your first point. I've never seen a rebuilding team only ice rookies yet. Of course you need balance at least eventually. No argument there.

To your 2nd point. You need prospects and draft picks? No kidding that's why you don't trade them away for 4th line clowns like Prust. You don't throw them in for sideways moves like Sutter. Having a lot of draft picks is my argument. You're supposed to defend trading them away. Defend your contradictory rebuilding plan. Also, if you're talking trading draft picks for stud D. Nobody is going to trade you Hedman or Doughty for mid range 1st rounders.

[Mattrek]

To your first point. I've never seen a rebuilding team only ice rookies yet. Of course you need balance at least eventually. No argument there.

To your 2nd point. You need prospects and draft picks? No kidding that's why you don't trade them away for 4th line clowns like Prust. You don't throw them in for sideways moves like Sutter. Having a lot of draft picks is my argument. You're supposed to defend trading them away. Defend your contradictory rebuilding plan. Also, if you're talking trading draft picks for stud D. Nobody is going to trade you Hedman or Doughty for mid range 1st rounders.

I'm glad you changed your mind on the ridiculous notion you can only do one thing or the other and not both. Now as to your 2nd point there was a hole that needed to be filled, so Benning got a rental in Prust. Notice how he was only signed for a year? Prust will be moved out next season for a draft pick and his spot will be made available for one of our prospects. That's what happens. When you get a player you can move them at a later time for draft picks! Awesome right? If we have a hole in our lineup a 1 year loss of a lower draft pick is something any sane GM would give up to fill it.

You actually already agreed that my "contradictory plan" was not contradictory and that you can do both. You can stock your prospect pool and trade them away at the same time if you have enough prospects to do so. You said that was possible, so I don't know why you're still arguing against it. Finally I said to get a stud defenceman you need draft picks (wait for it) AND prospects, not one or the other. Hockey is not a black and white sport, it is mostly grey areas. One needs a balance of all factors to become a Stanley Cup champion.

[CanadianRugby]

I'm glad you changed your mind on the ridiculous notion you can only do one thing or the other and not both. Now as to your 2nd point there was a hole that needed to be filled, so Benning got a rental in Prust. Notice how he was only signed for a year? Prust will be moved out next season for a draft pick and his spot will be made available for one of our prospects. That's what happens. When you get a player you can move them at a later time for draft picks! Awesome right? If we have a hole in our lineup a 1 year loss of a lower draft pick is something any sane GM would give up to fill it.

You actually already agreed that my "contradictory plan" was not contradictory and that you can do both. You can stock your prospect pool and trade them away at the same time if you have enough prospects to do so. You said that was possible, so I don't know why you're still arguing against it. Finally I said to get a stud defenceman you need draft picks (wait for it) AND prospects, not one or the other. Hockey is not a black and white sport, it is mostly grey areas. One needs a balance of all factors to become a Stanley Cup champion.

I only agreed that you need balance of vets and youngsters. I didn't agree that you can rebuild and stay competitive at the same time. I didn't agree that you can add and give away draft picks and somehow call that stockpiling them.

Adding prust for Kassian and a draft pick and keeping Miller over Lack and saying you're getting younger is contradictory. Saying you're going to stockpile draft picks/prospects and then trade away your 2nd, 3rd rounders, Kassian and Clendenning is contradictory. Saying you want to get tougher then trading Kessler, Bieksa and Kassian is contradictory. It lacks direction as the Canucks are neither rebuilding nor going for a Cup.

What the Canucks are doing (and fans saying we'll clean up in free agent market in a couple years) reeks of Maple Leafs, keeping your old players and trying to win with them when it's painfully obvious it's not going to happen. Pretending your prospects (ours are ranked 15th) are epic just because they play for your favourite team reeks of being a homer.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Completely contradictory statement typical of the "I get the plan" clan. Are you trying to get younger or get vets? Both. Are you adding or trading away picks/prospects? Both. Are you rebuilding or trying to win the Cup this season? Neither.

This lack of direction is why writers and analysts alike have skewered the Canucks management. These people have been called idiots (even by our moderator) because they dare to do their jobs. Of course, nobody was calling these same people idiots when they praised management for building the contender we had 4 years ago. I think it's most Canuck fans that are... uninformed or biased, and not the writers or analysts.

I still haven't seen anyone who is against tanking come up with a plan to get forwards who can realistically replace the Sedins, or how to get a stud D.

That’s the problems with tank crowd, they think finding a stud D is as simple as getting a top 5 pick. Can you name me 10 stud D selected in the top 5, over the last 30 years?

Here I’ll list them for you:

1st

Aaron Ekblad

Erik Johnson

Chris Phillips

Bryan Berard

Ed Jovanovski

Roman Hamrlik

2nd

Ryan Murray

Victor Hedman[/b

Drew Doughty

Andrei Zyuzin

Wade Redden

Oleg Tverdovsky

Chris Pronger

3rd

Erik Gudbranson

Zach Bogosian

Jack Johnson

Cam Barker

Jay Bouwmeester

Brad Stuart

Aki-Petteri Berg

Mike Rathje

Scott Niedermayer

Curtis Leschyshyn

Glen Wesley

4th

Seth Jones

Griffin Reinhart

Adam Larsson

Alex Pietrangelo

Thomas Hickey

Joni Pitkanen

Rostislav Klesla

Bryan Allen

Scott Lachance

Wayne McBean

Zarley Zalapski

5th

Noah Hanifin

Morgan Rielly

Luke Schenn

Karl Alzner

Ryan Whitney

Vitali Vishnevsky

Eric Brewer

Richard Jackman

Darius Kasparaitis

Aaron Ward

Chris Joseph

Shawn Anderson

I just listed all 47 D selected in the top 5 over that last 30 years. 47 players selected from a possible 150 total picks. From my count, I got 7 stud/ franchise D. That is less than a 5% chance of getting a stud D. Less than 5% isn’t something you probably want to use a as “pro” for your argument of tanking.

[OrrFour]

I think it was Kuzma that wrote the column criticizing benning for going after Lucic and not Doug Hamilton.

I totally agree with him. Hamilton is still young, 22, and looks like a legit number one Dman. Benning referred to him as a foundation player.

Lucic is on the downside of his career. He's still a solid player but he's 27

This made me wonder if benning's plan to rebuild and contend is a sound one.

[Mattrek]

I only agreed that you need balance of vets and youngsters. I didn't agree that you can rebuild and stay competitive at the same time. I didn't agree that you can add and give away draft picks and somehow call that stockpiling them.

Adding prust for Kassian and a draft pick and keeping Miller over Lack and saying you're getting younger is contradictory. Saying you're going to stockpile draft picks/prospects and then trade away your 2nd, 3rd rounders, Kassian and Clendenning is contradictory. Saying you want to get tougher then trading Kessler, Bieksa and Kassian is contradictory. It lacks direction as the Canucks are neither rebuilding nor going for a Cup.

What the Canucks are doing (and fans saying we'll clean up in free agent market in a couple years) reeks of Maple Leafs, keeping your old players and trying to win with them when it's painfully obvious it's not going to happen. Pretending your prospects (ours are ranked 15th) are epic just because they play for your favourite team reeks of being a homer.

Did you even read my posts or are you putting words into my mouth to make your argument seem more credible? Stocking and restocking prospects are completely different then stockpiling them. I never said stockpiling, stockpiling means keeping all the prospects and not moving them, stocking or restocking just means filling up your prospect pool. Me saying you should stockpile prospects would completely contradict my other statement. You need to stock prospects and draft picks to use to get better players later on after you have enough depth to fill out your current roster. That's how it works.

I never said keeping Miller over Lack or trading Kassian for Prust would keep us younger. I have no idea where you got that from as that's an outright lie. Again I never said we were going to stockpile draft picks and prospects. I also never said we were trying to get toughness, I said we were trying to get grit. Those two words have completely different meanings. Toughness means you can take on any player and hit hard, grit means you continue going after the puck no matter what the other player throws at you.

You know there is a thing called retooling, which is what we're doing right now. There's a middle between "let's blow up the team" and "let's stack our line up with stars to win us a cup" (the latter of which is nearly impossible with the salary cap today). Today's teams need to build from within and then use UFA's to fill the gaps after.

You do realize from the 2011 team there's only 5 veterans still playing for us right? 5 out of 23 and those 5 are: The Sedins, Burrows, Hamhuis and Edler. Hamhuis will be moved out next season as will our rental Prust and Burrows will go the season after that. Higgins will be traded and Vrbata will most likely be shipped off also. Next season Miller will go as well. That leaves our entire roster except Edler, Hansen and the Sedins below age 30. We'll have one of the youngest teams in the NHL. Now we will probably bring some key older player pieces in, but I digress, my point still stands.

Ok so first you say keeping our older players won't win us the cup and then you say all our prospects are overrated, but yet you want to keep prospects and not trade them off. You've boxed yourself into a corner. I've never said our prospects are going to be the best in the league, There is only 3 I believe can make the top 6 forwards: Cassels, Mccann and Virtanen. The rest will be bottom 6 players. If you call that homerism then you are most definitely out to lunch.

So I ask my question again: Did you even read my posts?

[Crabcakes]

Why do you need a healthy mix of players of all ages? Especially when the vets have high character and come from a winning background.

You want to pass that winning mindset down to your younger players. That's one reason among many.

Why do you want to remain competitive? Especially if you really want to develop players well.

Because when you challenge a player to dig deep and find a way to win in games that really matter to both sides, when they have to fight against players who may be a bit better than them. They must raise their game. Even if they don't win, they responded to the challenge and tried harder. That is how they get better and if they can't or won't raise their game, you find somebody who can.

Benning moved out some players this summer who didn't raise their game at critical moments: Matthias, Bonino, Kassian, Lack, Stanton

[shiznak]

Good back and re-read. Make sure to sound the spelling out very carefully.

My bad, still not comparable, though.

Mike Keane, was a fringe 4th liner, at best when he got here.

Smyth still put up 40+ points, playing on the second line, and playing in key situations.