Investing in the stock market - Discussion

[Ronaldoescobar]

On 1/21/2019 at 10:45 AM, Tortorella's Rant said:

Anyway, it's over with my portfolio manager. It's just a matter of time now. We had a call and I hinted at moving away and that's what he recommended too after my couple emails on the weekend about my concern for loss and other alternatives, which he did not appreciate. His entire fund sees over 500 million in assets and my dinky $100,000 portfolio isn't worth dedicating himself to. Basically it was summed up that they sold into the rally and bought into the dip. Hence the "crash" he put it during December, but the market was already well into falling at that point. So this concept I don't get. And then if you are going to purchase the same shares two weeks later only to sell a couple weeks later after that, then why sell at all in the first place. I didn't really bother question this or get very critical about it because his knowledge of the market and economy vastly exceeds what mine ever will. He told me there could be double digit losses this year but his goal as fund manager is to minimize those losses and ultimately beat the index. Historically speaking, from everything I've read, you cannot beat the index long term. He suggested ETFs and Index funds are fine if you are comfortable with that but I believe he also said if you bought an index fund which tracked the TSX you would be up 2% this year. Which also doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me considering I'm down 5%. 

 

Anyway, I obviously don't have the kind of capital nor salary to endure or brush off double digit losses. Clearly this was never considered when I first got involved.

If this guy is telling you that your money is basically not worth his time because its not large enough... Time to GTFO... A decent adviser would not treat a client like this no matter the amount invested. Its not like he is a hedge fund manager...

 

As for the bolded it is definitely something that your adviser should have discussed further with you. In up markets everyone has a high risk tolerance its when the markets fall that the true tolerance is discovered. ETFs or MFs may be the way to go as you will definitely not see the losses you would with individual securities (on the flip side nor the huge gains) but it may be worth the peace of mind. That said, they are long term investments that you should be prepared to hold for years to see the benefit. There are not quick bucks made of mutual funds or ETFs. 

[NucksPatsFan]

1 hour ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

I dunno. I don't want to be too critical because he is obviously successful at what he does - very successful. And I've been at this 8 months. But as was always my understanding that once you suffer realized loss in principle, it is time to get the hell out of dodge. Especially when further risks of double digit losses ahead have been made aware. They did not do anything to assess where I was, what I knew, and what my expectations were when I started this and I was too much of a beginner to question any of what I was being told - which was almost nothing.

 

Anyway, we have cashed out and are in the process of transferring elsewhere to different portfolios with a more hands on approach, if you will. We retained some stocks we like and because of the dividends they pay, but we are effectively out of the market now for the time being. 

I am pretty much out of the mental hell I was in for the past week. 

 

 

If you don't mind me asking  - which ones did you keep?

[Tortorella's Rant]

1 hour ago, NucksPatsFan said:

If you don't mind me asking  - which ones did you keep?

Some Enbridge shares, Alta Gas

[Tortorella's Rant]

9 hours ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

If this guy is telling you that your money is basically not worth his time because its not large enough... Time to GTFO... A decent adviser would not treat a client like this no matter the amount invested. Its not like he is a hedge fund manager...

 

As for the bolded it is definitely something that your adviser should have discussed further with you. In up markets everyone has a high risk tolerance its when the markets fall that the true tolerance is discovered. ETFs or MFs may be the way to go as you will definitely not see the losses you would with individual securities (on the flip side nor the huge gains) but it may be worth the peace of mind. That said, they are long term investments that you should be prepared to hold for years to see the benefit. There are not quick bucks made of mutual funds or ETFs. 

Certainly. Whether it's a  $100,000 or $100,000,000 portfolio. Peoples money is important to them and should be respected as such. While some people would laugh at what I said above, that money means a lot to me - even what may be completely insignificant to someone else. 

I was quite excited initially because I got into a wealth management group through a contact where otherwise they would have never accepted as I am now. Perhaps that is a red flag itself because the starting amount was a half million. But it looked great off the start too where I was up in paper about $3,000 in literally a couple months. I mentioned this some pages way back with Carvana being the biggest winner. Of course that imploded by the time late September rolled around and got real ugly real quick. Albeit it was only paper loss which is what I would say generally acceptable as long as the investments are smart investments to begin with but these losses shortly became realized loss and to me that is unacceptable. 

Another wealth manager who held a similar position in the past analyzed my portfolio and concurred with me that there was a ton of trading going on - daily trading with tons of assets. Moving shares in and out and cash all over. Some of the things he understood what were being done and some of the things he did not agree with. And that is fine. People are never going to agree fully on these things. But the brief portfolio I was in at CIBC before moving to where I did I went from about 30%, a much more conservative portfolio, to a portfolio at its peak contained 80% equities, many of which were highly volatile. So I increased my risk exposure drastically and didn't have a clue. 

Anyway, I mentioned that I am almost out now. The transfer process to a different institution with a more balanced plan for me which I feel I will be comfortable with is in the works. It was a pretty $&!#ty experience the past 10 days here but I also learned a ton and will hopefully be able to help someone else out in a similar situation

[NucksPatsFan]

2 hours ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

Certainly. Whether it's a  $100,000 or $100,000,000 portfolio. Peoples money is important to them and should be respected as such. While some people would laugh at what I said above, that money means a lot to me - even what may be completely insignificant to someone else. 

I was quite excited initially because I got into a wealth management group through a contact where otherwise they would have never accepted as I am now. Perhaps that is a red flag itself because the starting amount was a half million. But it looked great off the start too where I was up in paper about $3,000 in literally a couple months. I mentioned this some pages way back with Carvana being the biggest winner. Of course that imploded by the time late September rolled around and got real ugly real quick. Albeit it was only paper loss which is what I would say generally acceptable as long as the investments are smart investments to begin with but these losses shortly became realized loss and to me that is unacceptable. 

Another wealth manager who held a similar position in the past analyzed my portfolio and concurred with me that there was a ton of trading going on - daily trading with tons of assets. Moving shares in and out and cash all over. Some of the things he understood what were being done and some of the things he did not agree with. And that is fine. People are never going to agree fully on these things. But the brief portfolio I was in at CIBC before moving to where I did I went from about 30%, a much more conservative portfolio, to a portfolio at its peak contained 80% equities, many of which were highly volatile. So I increased my risk exposure drastically and didn't have a clue. 

Anyway, I mentioned that I am almost out now. The transfer process to a different institution with a more balanced plan for me which I feel I will be comfortable with is in the works. It was a pretty $&!#ty experience the past 10 days here but I also learned a ton and will hopefully be able to help someone else out in a similar situation

I'm thinking about moving from TD to WealthBar. Robot algorithms treat everyone equal. 

 

Plus it's Vancouver based. 

[Ronaldoescobar]

14 hours ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

Certainly. Whether it's a  $100,000 or $100,000,000 portfolio. Peoples money is important to them and should be respected as such. While some people would laugh at what I said above, that money means a lot to me - even what may be completely insignificant to someone else. 

I was quite excited initially because I got into a wealth management group through a contact where otherwise they would have never accepted as I am now. Perhaps that is a red flag itself because the starting amount was a half million. But it looked great off the start too where I was up in paper about $3,000 in literally a couple months. I mentioned this some pages way back with Carvana being the biggest winner. Of course that imploded by the time late September rolled around and got real ugly real quick. Albeit it was only paper loss which is what I would say generally acceptable as long as the investments are smart investments to begin with but these losses shortly became realized loss and to me that is unacceptable. 

Another wealth manager who held a similar position in the past analyzed my portfolio and concurred with me that there was a ton of trading going on - daily trading with tons of assets. Moving shares in and out and cash all over. Some of the things he understood what were being done and some of the things he did not agree with. And that is fine. People are never going to agree fully on these things. But the brief portfolio I was in at CIBC before moving to where I did I went from about 30%, a much more conservative portfolio, to a portfolio at its peak contained 80% equities, many of which were highly volatile. So I increased my risk exposure drastically and didn't have a clue. 

Anyway, I mentioned that I am almost out now. The transfer process to a different institution with a more balanced plan for me which I feel I will be comfortable with is in the works. It was a pretty $&!#ty experience the past 10 days here but I also learned a ton and will hopefully be able to help someone else out in a similar situation

Damn.... From my perspective it seems like there were issues all over the place that would have raised flags such as turning trades unnecessarily, pretty much turning the entire portfolio upside down from a risk perspective without your knowledge etc... I am sorry you had to go through that but you are definitely not alone as I speak with a number of clients that have experienced similar.. Despite all the rules and regulations in the industry these days there are still some shady people out there that fly under the radar for the most part. 

I am glad to hear that you are moving on to a more comfortable position. While I definitely dont like hearing what you have been through, it is a valuable lesson that you have learned early in your investing career and you are absolutely right it will be an experience that you can share with those who find themselves in a similar situation and hopefully save them from the same. 

[Duodenum]

On 12/24/2018 at 12:29 PM, Duodenum said:

Nucor definitely.

 

If you want a riskier, but potential for higher gains, AK Steel. 

 

Steel is a naturally cyclical market. Buy the stocks that have a good operating budget, free cash flow, and a good history like Nucor and you can't go too wrong. 

Most steel stocks carry debt but as long as they have good cash flow it is "good debt". 

 

Put both those stocks on watch and see how they flow going forward. Right now we have lower lows and lower highs without signs of coming back up yet. 

 

Put Bank of America on your watchlist as well. Bank stocks were a huge money maker after the 2008 recession and they are falling again. They won't fall as low as 2008 as they have been stingier and better run since 2008. They fell some more recently because of the Fed indicating they'd only have 2 interest rate hikes next year (was expected to be 3-4). 

 

Be very careful though. Only buy what you are willing to hold for years as it's very possible that you will be down for a while before the stock rebounds. Don't buy until you've seen more in 2019 as December is historically a bad month and there's no guarantee of a recession just yet. 

 

Just as a follow up @NucksPatsFan , Nucor went from 50.03 to 58.43 (+16.7%) and AK Steel went from 2.16 to 2.78 (+28.7%) as of today. Some nice gains for the pocketbook. 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Duodenum

[NucksPatsFan]

14 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

 

Just as a follow up @NucksPatsFan , Nucor went from 50.03 to 58.43 (+16.7%) and AK Steel went from 2.16 to 2.78 (+28.7%) as of today. Some nice gains for the pocketbook. 

Damn. I didn't pull the trigger as I was trying to keep my portfolio primarily on the Toronto exchange. Now I'm wishing I hadn't

[Duodenum]

2 minutes ago, NucksPatsFan said:

Damn. I didn't pull the trigger as I was trying to keep my portfolio primarily on the Toronto exchange. Now I'm wishing I hadn't

Not to worry, big thing about investing is playing the long game. Don't worry about mistakes, learn from them. It's not like it was a guarantee to go up in a month's time but I'm happy that it did. 

[Tortorella's Rant]

On 1/25/2019 at 8:55 AM, Ronaldoescobar said:

Damn.... From my perspective it seems like there were issues all over the place that would have raised flags such as turning trades unnecessarily, pretty much turning the entire portfolio upside down from a risk perspective without your knowledge etc... I am sorry you had to go through that but you are definitely not alone as I speak with a number of clients that have experienced similar.. Despite all the rules and regulations in the industry these days there are still some shady people out there that fly under the radar for the most part. 

I am glad to hear that you are moving on to a more comfortable position. While I definitely dont like hearing what you have been through, it is a valuable lesson that you have learned early in your investing career and you are absolutely right it will be an experience that you can share with those who find themselves in a similar situation and hopefully save them from the same. 

Thanks

Unfortunately still not out of the woods yet. There is the matter of the difference in currency as most of our funds are in USD - which we were also told makes no sense to do this with your TFSA and RSP. Now trying to convert our funds back to CDN at an ideal time adds to get the most favorable exchange rate adds more complexity. Even a single penny difference is something like $500. And there's always some associated fee which pisses me off. The process of moving away from here has been a total pain in the ass.

 

Then as I am helping my mum get through this as well. She is between a balanced 40/60 mutual fund at a credit union proposed to her by her contact there during our discussion last week, and possibly some balanced portfolios by Raymond James we haven't seen yet, or a compiled portfolio most accurately around her risk tolerance and expectations. The mutual fund on the surface seemed promising but Raymond James deemed it as being very financial sector heavy and more bonds than you would ideally want as interest rates right. Meanwhile, mum is hesitant about going the Raymond James route because of the trading involved like last time although it is supposed to be much more conservative. I am also indecisive here because the treatment she gets at Raymond James will probably be a lot better and more hands on, but the credit union mutual fund is all discretionary so she wouldn't have to worry about approving or denying any trades, which would ultimately fall on me to make the call.

Pros and cons, pros and cons. But there is always some uncertainty regardless of what you do I suppose. You ultimately need to make an executive decision and simply commit. Trying to decipher which is best for you will cause you to go insane. 

 

 

[CBH1926]

On 1/21/2019 at 12:45 PM, Tortorella's Rant said:

Anyway, it's over with my portfolio manager. It's just a matter of time now. We had a call and I hinted at moving away and that's what he recommended too after my couple emails on the weekend about my concern for loss and other alternatives, which he did not appreciate. His entire fund sees over 500 million in assets and my dinky $100,000 portfolio isn't worth dedicating himself to. Basically it was summed up that they sold into the rally and bought into the dip. Hence the "crash" he put it during December, but the market was already well into falling at that point. So this concept I don't get. And then if you are going to purchase the same shares two weeks later only to sell a couple weeks later after that, then why sell at all in the first place. I didn't really bother question this or get very critical about it because his knowledge of the market and economy vastly exceeds what mine ever will. He told me there could be double digit losses this year but his goal as fund manager is to minimize those losses and ultimately beat the index. Historically speaking, from everything I've read, you cannot beat the index long term. He suggested ETFs and Index funds are fine if you are comfortable with that but I believe he also said if you bought an index fund which tracked the TSX you would be up 2% this year. Which also doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me considering I'm down 5%. 

 

Anyway, I obviously don't have the kind of capital nor salary to endure or brush off double digit losses. Clearly this was never considered when I first got involved.

Time to get your money away from that guy.

Cowboys like that make millions but they also lose tens of millions, since it’s not their money no skin of their back.

 

You are better of buying into existing mutual funds or once you get better do your own research.

Investing is a marathon not sprint, people that jump in and out get burned a lot.

 

I bought IBM stock when it was in duldrums, the other day after they released earnings stock jumped almost 10%

Sure at $133 a share I could sell it, and make money, but I am interested where this stock is going to be in 20 years.

[Tortorella's Rant]

13 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

Time to get your money away from that guy.

Cowboys like that make millions but they also lose tens of millions, since it’s not their money no skin of their back.

 

You are better of buying into existing mutual funds or once you get better do your own research.

Investing is a marathon not sprint, people that jump in and out get burned a lot.

 

I bought IBM stock when it was in duldrums, the other day after they released earnings stock jumped almost 10%

Sure at $133 a share I could sell it, and make money, but I am interested where this stock is going to be in 20 years.

We have. My only concerns left are: 1) the exchange difference because most of our cash is now USD. I want to do this as cheaply as possible and when the exchange is in our favor, such as right now. But NB may charge a bigger fee than elsewhere to do this.. otherwise we have to wait for transfers to new institutions which can take a few weeks. 

 

Secondly, I have committed to Wealthsimple. My mum and I are still undecided about what to do for her: a Raymond James balanced type portfolio, or a Guardian Income 60/40 fixed Mutual Fund through Coast Capital. There are pros and cons to both and there is always some uncertainty going ahead with both. We need to decide real soon.

I am just very tired of thinking about all of this and want it to be over soon. I have had less of an appetite and have feel fatigued the past two weeks trying to deal with all of this. It is a massive mental drain. "They" always say a car and a house are the biggest two financial decisions you can make - clearly your financial future such as this was never taken into consideration

[NucksPatsFan]

I have a trigger sell price of $10 for Aphria.

 

It hit 9.98 today lol. Damnit

[Tortorella's Rant]

Damn. Dunno. Decision day real soon. I am going WS. My mum is torn towards WS as well, as a local mutual fund. The fee difference over time is huge. Hypothetically, if the fund never grew, but the fee calculated over 10 years would be nearly $20,0000.

But the local mutual fund as she is getting closer to retirement should be helpful to transition towards that. WS can as well, but that is all done over phone and email. You don't have that local communication face to face. However, our contact at the local mutual fund may not be there in a few years time anyway and then she's stuck with whomever, just like at CIBC, and that wasn't helpful at all. I will assist to make sure she doesn't get some dingbat just there to collect a cheque, but there's never any guarantees. 

 

Anyone else here ever have such a decision to make?

Edited January 30, 2019 by Tortorella's Rant

[LeanBeef]

Hey guys, im an absolute beginner to investing.... and by beginner i mean the level before beginner. 

 

Wondering how to get all started up? Should i go to my bank and talk to a financial advisor? Use wealthsimple, questrade etc? Really dont know where to start. 

 

 

[NucksPatsFan]

12 hours ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

Damn. Dunno. Decision day real soon. I am going WS. My mum is torn towards WS as well, as a local mutual fund. The fee difference over time is huge. Hypothetically, if the fund never grew, but the fee calculated over 10 years would be nearly $20,0000.

But the local mutual fund as she is getting closer to retirement should be helpful to transition towards that. WS can as well, but that is all done over phone and email. You don't have that local communication face to face. However, our contact at the local mutual fund may not be there in a few years time anyway and then she's stuck with whomever, just like at CIBC, and that wasn't helpful at all. I will assist to make sure she doesn't get some dingbat just there to collect a cheque, but there's never any guarantees. 

 

Anyone else here ever have such a decision to make?

Look into wealthbar. It's Vancouver based with a building in Vancouver, so at the very least, you have somewhere physical to go to talk to a human if you wanted

[NucksPatsFan]

22 hours ago, NucksPatsFan said:

I have a trigger sell price of $10 for Aphria.

 

It hit 9.98 today lol. Damnit

Currently at $10.17 and my trigger sold at $10.

 

And the wheel goes round and round ..

[Tortorella's Rant]

12 minutes ago, NucksPatsFan said:

Look into wealthbar. It's Vancouver based with a building in Vancouver, so at the very least, you have somewhere physical to go to talk to a human if you wanted

I will make a note of it.

The fund is 1.57%. WS is charging .7 at the very most. Assuming principle never grew, we're looking at over $10,000 in fee difference alone over 10 years. While she does not plan on retiring for another 13 years, we figured it may be good to have a local contact who she can interact with in 5 minutes face to face about retirement planning. It begs the question of when you need to transition to a portfolio/retirement fund, and if she can't do that already by merely having the dividend cheque deposited to her savings account with the current fund we're looking at. Theoretically, we can do this through WS and CIBC, although WS is done over the phone and email and CIBC we've not had the best experiences with. On the flip side, if the contact suggesting the fund leaves in the next few years and moves to a different institution, as this happens all the time, you are no longer a client and the incentive for him to help with this is effectively gone.

Maybe it is a simple choice and we're merely overanalyzing everything. 
 

 

[NickTheGreek]

So people, what about the WWE stock. I don't know if it's been discussed on here

 

So I invested a pretty considerable amount of money into this stock after it took a bit of a dip. Bought in at $75 and it's been hovering around the $82 mark for the 2 months I've had it so I'm up a decent amount.

 

When I first brought up to my advisor that I wanted to go seriously in on this stock he thought I was nuts and convinced me otherwise. When I first brought it up, it was around $25 so yeah, I live with some regret on that. He thought WWE, it's wrestling, it's gotta be a joke, but here we are today.

 

Anyway over to you guys. Thoughts/Opinions?

[HI5]

1 hour ago, NickTheGreek said:

So people, what about the WWE stock. I don't know if it's been discussed on here

 

So I invested a pretty considerable amount of money into this stock after it took a bit of a dip. Bought in at $75 and it's been hovering around the $82 mark for the 2 months I've had it so I'm up a decent amount.

 

When I first brought up to my advisor that I wanted to go seriously in on this stock he thought I was nuts and convinced me otherwise. When I first brought it up, it was around $25 so yeah, I live with some regret on that. He thought WWE, it's wrestling, it's gotta be a joke, but here we are today.

 

Anyway over to you guys. Thoughts/Opinions?

I don’t listen to advisors, they can’t predict the market and neither can we. I find if you find some stocks within an industry you thoroughly enjoy reading and learning about you should pull the trigger if you feel it’s right.

 

Advisors have always told me I needed to diversify my portfolio as I have a tendency to go all in on certain stocks at times for a quick flip. So far it’s been working well for me so I don’t plan on changing anything.