Germans set the record straight for Sharia Law Police attempts on German soil

[Mustapha]

DD did not conflate your statement you clearly had no idea of what the word secular means.

Right, somehow I can argue against sharia law and be oblivious about secular society. It's like arguing against soggy cereal if you don't know what milk is. Jesus Christ on a pogo stick.

That govt you are so in awe of , it is their actions in the middle east that has set the stage for isis to become what it has.

Backing corrupt, murdering dictators and terorists such as saddam and osama bin laden when it suits their ends then illegally invading iraq in retaliation for 9/11.

Here's a definition for ya:

[Mr. Ambien]

Right, somehow I can argue against sharia law and be oblivious about secular society. It's like arguing against soggy cereal if you don't know what milk is. Jesus Christ on a pogo stick.

Here's a definition for ya:

Goes well with the "Plagiarism" badge he's already earned.

[Edlerberry]

This post speaks volumes too how much you're out of touch with reality maybe even stupid lol..

Couldn't have described your post any better myself. You should use that disclaimer every time you try to be a smartass by - ironically - belittling my intelligence and nitpicking irrelevant details of my thought experiment while not challenging or even demonstrating understanding of the actual point I made.

[NucksCelts]

You are arguing for arguing's sake. ISIL has an army.

Total hypocrisy at its finest. You just bend your ideas in whatever way works for you. All you do is argue.

[thejazz97]

You are arguing for arguing's sake. ISIL has an army.

We have a hulk.

[Hugor Hill]

Total hypocrisy at its finest. You just bend your ideas in whatever way works for you. All you do is argue.

How's that?

[Mr. Ambien]

We have a hulk.

The nerd in me chuckled.

[Mr.DirtyDangles]

I am disappointed with your attempt to conflate my statements with the erroneous belief that 'Murica is a Christian nation'

I am arguing against Sharia Law BECAUSE it stands in direct opposition to secularism - where Government does not endorse any religious view. It's been the crux of my argument the entire time, but I guess I will have to clarify my statement further.

The distinction has to be made that the USA was founded on secular principles by people who largely identified as Christian. That DOES not equate to 'a Christian nation'.

This is why I am in awe of the system of government in the USA - This system was founded over 300 years ago, when most people were not educated as much as they are now and our current understanding of science was a fraction of what it is today.

It would have been so much easier to set up another monarchial system with a God-appointed leader, but they didn't. They took the road less traveled and created a government that is in principle still the envy of the world even in today's age. (Corruption aside)

To quote John Locke:

"All mankind... being all equal and independent, no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty or possessions."

Most of these people weren't atheists. However, they knew enough to cast aside their own agenda to create a better society

Do you not see the contrast of this against modern Islam? There is no widespread willingness to put aside personal differences to form a secular state in, say, Iran or Saudi Arabia for example.

Islamic culture was at one time very advanced with respect to medicine, astronomy, and mathematics (We continue to use Arabic numerals every day) but sometime around the 11th-12th century it was plunged into a black hole of ignorance.

So I will leave it like this - speaking to those who would come to the West:

To be free, you have to value freedom. It doesn't matter what you look like, or what deity you worship, or what language you speak. If your goal is to allow the domination of others against their will, I do not want to share a nation with the likes of you.

Lets start from the beginning shall we ?

You stated "Christians have been able to found society based on secularism and freedom for all (United States of America is a perfect example)"

AS it is in complete contradiction to what the word secular means I am having trouble understanding what you are even alluding to ?

Any normal sane and rational person would argue against Sharia law. Show me where I am contrary to that mindset.

The third paragraph again you state "The distinction has to be made that the USA was founded on secular principles by people who largely identified as Christian."

You then go on to write "There is no widespread willingness to put aside personal differences to form a secular state in, say, Iran or Saudi Arabia for example."

Why would they ? They are deeply religious and believe GOD is LAW. Again highly confusing

The fact that you think the American style of Government is the envy of the world is honestly my biggest point of contention.

As for your last paragraph WTF are you talking about ?

My personal goal is to live in peace and harmony with my fellow brothers and sisters of the human race.

I like most want to live in a world free of fantastical fairy tale freaks running around slaughtering people in the name of a fictitious deity.

Free of pervasive literature and ideals written to confuse and subjugate the masses.

Free of the criminal interest banking system designed to keep the world at it's knees though fear and consumption.

A world where human's can learn and progress in all aspects from nature to science and preserve our world for future generations.

[PhillipBlunt]

I'm blind, you're dumb. Who here is deaf??

What did you say?

[PhillipBlunt]

Fact is, Germany has every right to shut down these idiots. The country has a standardized set of laws that are recognized and accepted by the populous and a judiciary system and government to enforce and regulate them to prevent the populace from descending into insanity.

Sharia law is not part of the make up of any federal, regional, or municipal set of laws that presently exist in Germany, as it is not an Islamic state. Germany separates religion from government. Sharia does not.

Therefore it isn't and shouldn't be recognized in any shape or form by anyone in Germany. Further to that point, anyone who will attempt to enforce Sharia law in a non Islamic country, is breaking the law and is bound by their actions.

[Mustapha]

Lets start from the beginning shall we ?

You stated "Christians have been able to found society based on secularism and freedom for all (United States of America is a perfect example)"

AS it is in complete contradiction to what the word secular means I am having trouble understanding what you are even alluding to ?

What exactly is 'contradictory' to secularism? Are you saying Christians cannot endorse a secular government? The USA is proof they can. Let me explain again.

1. The United States historically has been and still is overwhelmingly Christian.

2. The Constitution of the United States is founded upon secular principles, the government does not endorse any religion, which is the basis of secularism and the polar opposite of Sharia law.

If you agree with both statements, then we are in agreement.

Any normal sane and rational person would argue against Sharia law. Show me where I am contrary to that mindset.

?? Did I directly accuse you of being in favour of Sharia Law? I have written several posts but I don't recall doing that.

The third paragraph again you state "The distinction has to be made that the USA was founded on secular principles by people who largely identified as Christian."

You then go on to write "There is no widespread willingness to put aside personal differences to form a secular state in, say, Iran or Saudi Arabia for example."

Why would they ? They are deeply religious and believe GOD is LAW. Again highly confusing

It is clear to me that you are missing my argument entirely, and this statement proves it.

You just asked why people who are religious would want to found a nation based on secular laws.

After all, they thought God was the law, and Christians were no exception (Monarchs were vested with power from God, even to this day God is referenced on Canadian coins featuring Queen Elizabeth "D.G. Regina" meaning Deo Gratia Regina, or 'Queen, By the Grace of God' in Latin.

Well, you don't need to look any farther than the United States of America, who founded a secular nation despite being religious. This is what makes their nation special. They managed to write laws to protect other points of view other than the dominant ones IN THE EIGHTEENTH CENTURY. You might not know this, but people tended to be more religious in the olden days, due to less education, higher mortality rate, lack of modern medicine and scientific explanation etc. It makes the achievement that much more impressive.

The fact that you think the American style of Government is the envy of the world is honestly my biggest point of contention.

How so? Please don't tell me you are confusing the 'system of government' and 'policies of the current administration'

I don't know if there is a nation on Earth that has granted more personal freedoms than the US.

You see a lot of stupid opinions in the USA because they are allowed to express them openly.

If you go to 'progressive' nations like Sweden or Belgium, their media is heavily monitored and censored against any criticism of multiculturist ideology.

Another example: Even though a large portion of the US population was against gay marriage, the Supreme Court granted it. Why? Because the Constitution states that all citizens should be equal and have the same rights under the law.

Good luck seeing that ever happen in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.

As for your last paragraph WTF are you talking about ?

Oh, um....if you are an immigrant who wants to replace personal freedom with Islamic law, please leave.

My personal goal is to live in peace and harmony with my fellow brothers and sisters of the human race.

I like most want to live in a world free of fantastical fairy tale freaks running around slaughtering people in the name of a fictitious deity.

Free of pervasive literature and ideals written to confuse and subjugate the masses.

Free of the criminal interest banking system designed to keep the world at it's knees though fear and consumption.

A world where human's can learn and progress in all aspects from nature to science and preserve our world for future generations.

Your dream is the fairy tale. Humans are apes. Highly evolved apes, but still apes. No matter how civilized or technologically advanced we get, we will still find a way to fling crap at each other.

[thejazz97]

Your dream is the fairy tale. Humans are apes. Highly evolved apes, but still apes. No matter how civilized or technologically advanced we get, we will still find a way to fling crap at each other.

That's too bad you view humans like that, true or not.

[Mustapha]

That's too bad you view humans like that, true or not.

It isn't just my 'viewpoint' or opinion...it's a scientific fact.

Humans are apes. We like to pretend like we aren't part of the animal kingdom, but we are.

As such, we are prone to emotional, irrational behaviours that can lead to violence.

It's a much better explanation for why religion exists than the Magic Man in the Sky theory.

Religious people aren't the only ones with irrational mindsets, mind you

Radfems, gun nuts, the Flat Earth society, UFO 'abductees', Conspiracy theorists....the list goes on and on

[thejazz97]

It isn't just my 'viewpoint' or opinion...it's a scientific fact.

Just because we're similar doesn't necessarily mean we're the same.

Humans are apes. We like to pretend like we aren't part of the animal kingdom, but we are.

As such, we are prone to emotional, irrational behaviours that can lead to violence.

It's a much better explanation for why religion exists than the Magic Man in the Sky theory.

Religious people aren't the only ones with irrational mindsets, mind you

Radfems, gun nuts, the Flat Earth society, UFO 'abductees', Conspiracy theorists....the list goes on and on

The thing is, though, Christianity (can't say anything for other religions) isn't supposed to lead to violence. Maybe from everyone else towards us, but not the other way around.

[Lockout Casualty]

Just because we're similar doesn't necessarily mean we're the same.

The thing is, though, Christianity (can't say anything for other religions) isn't supposed to lead to violence. Maybe from everyone else towards us, but not the other way around.

If Christians kept to themselves, nobody would give a rat's ass about your religion.

[thejazz97]

If Christians kept to themselves, nobody would give a rat's ass about your religion.

That's not our job tho

[Mr.DirtyDangles]

What exactly is 'contradictory' to secularism? Secular : denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis.

Are you saying Christians cannot endorse a secular government? Of course not they can endorse what ever they want. Yet it would be a glaring contradiction to a devout Christians every waking moment.

1. The United States historically has been and still is overwhelmingly Christian.

2. The Constitution of the United States is founded upon secular principles, the government does not endorse any religion, which is the basis of secularism and the polar opposite of Sharia law.

If you agree with both statements, then we are in agreement. Wholeheartedly we are in agreement here

It is clear to me that you are missing my argument entirely, and this statement proves it. Not at all you keep trying to tell me that the US being predominantly christian created a secular government. The constitution was signed hundreds of years before. In the last 200 years Christianity has slowly Infiltrated all aspects of western society and has been manipulating laws and culture to suit their ideals. A small elite caste of American society fueled by money from UK, France and Germany have forged America into the most ruthless capitalistic society on the planet.

After all, they thought God was the law, and Christians were no exception (Monarchs were vested with power from God, even to this day God is referenced on Canadian coins featuring Queen Elizabeth "D.G. Regina" meaning Deo Gratia Regina, or 'Queen, By the Grace of God' in Latin.

Appointments by god is exactly what the founding fathers were against. Appointed on merit and philosophy that will progress the nation and it's people into peace and prosperity is what they stood for. I bet the founding fathers are turning over in their graves over the current state of America.

Well, you don't need to look any farther than the United States of America, who founded a secular nation despite being religious. This is what makes their nation special. Special ? A country where civil liberty and freedom can be taken away at an instant because some nut in power says so. The American people have been duped by so called Democracy disguised as progressive socialism. Ask any student at an American university who is the biggest threat to the worlds security ? Islamic extremists or America ? You know the answer you will get....

They managed to write laws to protect other points of view other than the dominant ones IN THE EIGHTEENTH CENTURY. You might not know this, but people tended to be more religious in the olden days, due to less education, higher mortality rate, lack of modern medicine and scientific explanation etc. It makes the achievement that much more impressive. I and thankfully many others are not so easily impressed by cheap political parlor tricks fooling the average Joe into believing they live in a free and progressive society.

How so? Please don't tell me you are confusing the 'system of government' and 'policies of the current administration'

I don't know if there is a nation on Earth that has granted more personal freedoms than the US. The current administration is the result of the last 200 years of gradually more oppressive and restrictive laws in regards to life and liberty. Everyone sees it. It is a direct result of the infiltration of religion into the state.

If you go to 'progressive' nations like Sweden or Belgium, their media is heavily monitored and censored against any criticism of multiculturist ideology. Of course ! The media is controlled by the government and the government controls EDUCATION, FINANCE, LAW, MEDICINE, COMMODITIES, ART......

Another example: Even though a large portion of the US population was against gay marriage, the Supreme Court granted it. Why? Because the Constitution states that all citizens should be equal and have the same rights under the law. Yeah the constitution says that but the majority of America that is predominantly Christian clearly does not.

Good luck seeing that ever happen in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. Of course not their laws are heavily influenced by Religion. Therefore secular views would not be considered.

Your dream is the fairy tale. Humans are apes. Highly evolved apes, but still apes. No matter how civilized or technologically advanced we get, we will still find a way to fling crap at each other. In my world the possibilities are endless Mustapha. Life is what you make of it. Be the power of change

[Mustapha]

Not at all you keep trying to tell me that the US being predominantly christian created a secular government. The constitution was signed hundreds of years before.

The constitution was signed hundreds of years before what? The rise of Christianity? Christianity has been the majority religion in Western Europe since AT LEAST the 10th century. So if you fast forward to 1787, that is document that was created in spite of over EIGHT CENTURIES of religious intolerance. Pogroms, burning witches, Auto-da-fe trials in 16th century Spain...

You don't know what you are talking about, and it shows clearly here.

In the last 200 years Christianity has slowly Infiltrated all aspects of western society and has been manipulating laws and culture to suit their ideals. A small elite caste of American society fueled by money from UK, France and Germany have forged America into the most ruthless capitalistic society on the planet.

The last 200 years have brought western society modern medicine, the theory of evolution, and of course, the US Constitution. Western society is becoming increasingly non-religious and the data backs that up. Just look at this information regarding the UK. Immigrant Muslims notwithstanding, religion is on the decline. I am certain you will find similar numbers for other Western nations.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/key-statistics-for-local-authorities-in-england-and-wales/rpt-religion.html

]Appointments by god is exactly what the founding fathers were against. Appointed on merit and philosophy that will progress the nation and it's people into peace and prosperity is what they stood for. I bet the founding fathers are turning over in their graves over the current state of America.

The Constitution still protects the same laws and freedoms as it did back then. In fact, they have been expanded. I am sure they would be shocked to learn that slavery is no longer legal and that homosexuals can get married. You keep trying to conflate the laws of the USA with the political and social culture of the current day and it's not a valid argument. Freedom doesn't mean 'everyone gets along'. It means everyone has the right to think how they wish to think.

Well, you don't need to look any farther than the United States of America, who founded a secular nation despite being religious. This is what makes their nation special.

Special ? A country where civil liberty and freedom can be taken away at an instant because some nut in power says so. The American people have been duped by so called Democracy disguised as progressive socialism. Ask any student at an American university who is the biggest threat to the worlds security ? Islamic extremists or America ?You know the answer you will get....

You are uninformed on this subject. To 'take away' rights you would need to amend the Constitution, and no one person can do that. You need two thirds of BOTH the Senate and the House to amend the Constitution or by national convention which would require the support of 34 states. Not easy to do. Ironically, it doesn't matter what the President wants. Doesn't matter if he/she is in favour or against, the amendment is approved if the support is attained.

As for what a 'student thinks', it depends on the student. If I ask a gender studies student, they will probably say it's the Patriarchy. If I ask someone at Liberty University, they might say gay marriage. Both of them are idiots IMO, but they are allowed to think what they want.

I and thankfully many others are not so easily impressed by cheap political parlor tricks fooling the average Joe into believing they live in a free and progressive society.

You take freedom for granted. I really hope you never deal with losing your freedom, because then you will realize how precious it actually is.

Of course ! The media is controlled by the government and the government controls EDUCATION, FINANCE, LAW, MEDICINE, COMMODITIES, ART......

Media outlets themselves can have an agenda, but the US government doesn't pick sides. In the US, there are progressive and conservative news outlets, reporting from their 'point of view'. In Sweden, if a newspaper prints an article about the dangers of Muslim no-go zones, they risk being muzzled by the Government there.

Again, you know why there are so many stupid ideas in the US? Because they are allowed to express them. You can condemn a government policy openly, as a person or a news outlet with arrest or sanction.

Anyway, a lot of what you said is incoherent to me. I don't think you know very much about history based on what you have said, so I am not going to bother trying to beat basic concepts into your head for the millionth time.