HKSR Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I know there are many of us in the 'tanking' crowd, but just some food for thought for the non-tanking crowd. Many Canucks fans would say the 2 times the team has come closest to winning the Stanley Cup was in 1994 and 2011. In 1994, arguably, the team was led by Linden, and of course McLean and Bure. I'll give the non-tanking crowd McLean, and Bure was a fluke of a draft pick (won't go into the details of his qualification as a draftee here). The focus here is on Linden. THE Captain and face of the Canucks. Now President. Drafted 2nd overall. Not saying we tanked the year before, but the fact is we finished low enough to garner a draft pick of that quality that led the Canucks to within a crossbar of going into OT for a Game 7 Stanley Cup Final battle. Linden made it a 3-2 game in Game 7. Those old enough to have watched him play knows that playoff hockey was his kinda hockey. Oh, and might be worthwhile mentioning that we drafted another player a year later in the 1990 Entry Draft at 2nd Overall as well -- Petr Nedved. The result from this pick was acquiring Brown, Hedican, and Lafayette -- key members of the 1994 run, and one of the best PP quarterbacks the franchise ever had in their lineup (Brown). Yes, it was Brown passing the puck tape-to-tape for Bure to end the series in Round 1 against the Flames. In 2011, again, so close yet so far. We got to Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals... led by who else? Daniel and Henrik Sedin. I won't go into details here, but here's the fact -- drafted 2nd and 3rd overall. Likely future HOFers, and franchise leaders in nearly every offensive category. There has been no other time in the history of this franchise where we have gotten closer to winning the Stanley Cup than the 2 times mentioned above. Ironically, or coincidentally, or perhaps it was a direct result of the fact we were able to draft 3 of the greatest players this franchise has ever had -- the ONLY times we have ever drafted players in the Top 3 of an Entry Draft in the modern era. Food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokes Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 The thing about tanking is that even if you are dead last, you are not guaranteed a number one. So why do that to the players and the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I can't tell if you are arguing for or against tanking. Yes those picks got us close but we still didn't win the Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 7 minutes ago, smokes said: The thing about tanking is that even if you are dead last, you are not guaranteed a number one. So why do that to the players and the fans. Nope, but you're guaranteed #1 or #2. Ironically, the ones I mentioned above were all #2 picks other than the #3 pick for Henrik. Personally, I count the #2 and #3 picks for the Twins as a 2nd 5 minutes ago, Shift-4 said: I can't tell if you are arguing for or against tanking. Yes those picks got us close but we still didn't win the Cup. True, but I'd take more Stanley Cup Final runs and hope that one of them pans out to a Stanley Cup win rather than sitting in mediocrity for years (never the best, never the worst). As with any success in life, success comes with risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockhart Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 8 minutes ago, smokes said: The thing about tanking is that even if you are dead last, you are not guaranteed a number one. So why do that to the players and the fans. Tanking isn't only about the number 1 pick. You can't tell me you wouldn't want Eichel on this team or Chychrun. Any pick in the top 5 SHOULD get you a significant player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 2 minutes ago, HKSR said: Nope, but you're guaranteed #1 or #2. Ironically, the ones I mentioned above were all #2 picks other than the #3 pick for Henrik. You're not even guaranteed a top 3 pick as of 2016 actually. Like Lockhart said, you should get a good piece in the top 5 but is it worth it to do what Buffalo did in 2014-15 for a #4 pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I've started mentally substituting the word 'tank' with "hey guys let's watch a professional sports team lose a lot for awhile so we can justify our love of 18-year old boys" and so far so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 10 minutes ago, HKSR said: True, but I'd take more Stanley Cup Final runs and hope that one of them pans out to a Stanley Cup win rather than sitting in mediocrity for years (never the best, never the worst). As with any success in life, success comes with risk. I have always said tanking is for losers. And now you are saying we should tank again because we lost in the finals. Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Tanking is irrelevant if you're going to select the wrong player at draft time or you're not willing to give that player or collection of players the support needed to win cups. This is kinda why i'm off the pro-tank bandwagon and on the pro-cup-win bandwagon instead. I don't give a frack how this team wins a cup, just win it, goddammnit. We've suffered, and suffered greatly, long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Just now, Shift-4 said: I have always said tanking is for losers. And now you are saying we should tank again because we lost in the finals. Makes sense. To me, tanking = rebuilding rather than retooling. People in the 'non-tanking' group generally say to keep guys like Vrbata and Hamhuis, whereas the 'tanking' group would rather receive assets for players likely walking away as an UFA. I believe keeping Vrbata and Hamhuis past this year's trade deadline would be foolish. I don't believe in losing on purpose, but setting yourself up for a proper rebuild is better than mediocrity for years in hopes of finding a gem in the rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Just now, HKSR said: To me, tanking = rebuilding rather than retooling. People in the 'non-tanking' group generally say to keep guys like Vrbata and Hamhuis, whereas the 'tanking' group would rather receive assets for players likely walking away as an UFA. I believe keeping Vrbata and Hamhuis past this year's trade deadline would be foolish. I don't believe in losing on purpose, but setting yourself up for a proper rebuild is better than mediocrity for years in hopes of finding a gem in the rough. I am in non-tanking crowd and would have no problem trading Hamhuis or Vrbata. Not sure how you established that generalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K PureCool Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I personally prefer 'sucking ourselves to a top 5 pick' than 'tanking'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Just now, Shift-4 said: I am in non-tanking crowd and would have no problem trading Hamhuis or Vrbata. Not sure how you established that generalization. Would you trade both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 1 minute ago, HKSR said: Would you trade both? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 3 minutes ago, Shift-4 said: I am in non-tanking crowd and would have no problem trading Hamhuis or Vrbata. Not sure how you established that generalization. Trading both for prospects and picks means giving up on the playoffs...hence tanking/getting worse today, which means a part of you is pro tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Just now, Shift-4 said: Yes. Fair enough. I'd consider you a pseudo-tanker then cuz we would seriously suck after losing those two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Just now, FireGillis said: Trading both for prospects and picks means giving up on the playoffs...hence tanking/getting worse, which means a part of you is pro tank. No it does not. I compare it to Calgary trading Glencross last year. Plus have you seen them play this year? Not sure how losing them would hurt all that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Just now, Shift-4 said: No it does not. I compare it to Calgary trading Glencross last year. Plus have you seen them play this year? Not sure how losing them would hurt all that much. The fact we'd have to play Weber on a full-time basis means we're sinking to the bottom of the standings lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 6 minutes ago, Shift-4 said: No it does not. I compare it to Calgary trading Glencross last year. Plus have you seen them play this year? Not sure how losing them would hurt all that much. Nah, it generally does. Contenders don't normally trade pending ufa because they need them the playoffs or to help them get there. Calgary was a special case cause they were kind of on the bubble and glencross wasn't a big piece for them. He's not even in the NHL today. Trading hamius/vrbata would definitely make us worse if they do the right thing and trade them for prospects/picks and not for players that would be on your nhl roster today. Tanking/Rebuilding is all about building for the future and writing off this season. I'm hoping the canucks are pretty out of it by the new year so benning doesn't keep this delusion of the playoffs up any longer than he has and starts selling our assets for the future. People can be anti tank today, but if we get a great top 5 pick player this year, they'll be right there cheering like crazy for him if he becomes great and will forget how we got them! Just like people forget we got the sedins 2nd/3rd overall, which was the last time we had a top 5 pick. They can hate the tank now, but they'll enjoy the results in the future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: The fact we'd have to play Weber on a full-time basis means we're sinking to the bottom of the standings lol Depends on the trades. We might get a D in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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