Ghostsof1915 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Unless you have clairvoyance, and you know 2017 is a crummy draft of 1999 proportions forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: GT......I am saying if you add MacKinnon,,,,,you are no longer a lottery team......that is my bet, especially if you add Demers as well He still will be a lottery team, we have bigger holes on this team than a 1st line winger. How can you sign Demer when you just threw 9 million dollars at Mackinnon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: Ok, look you crazy guy, you! Take a look at our team.......look at all the injuries...........look at how well the kids are playing........we need high end players...... Think about Mackinnon, Broeser, Virtanen, Horvat, Baertschi, Hutton, Demko, Granlund, Etem, etc.... we are doing pretty good with the young guys...... Not all first round picks turn out........just over 50%............MacKinnon is 100%, and elite........don't worry about giving up one year of picks.....it is the multiple years of no picks that kill you! I completely disagree and would easily rather have all the picks. Not to mention that I think you are vastly overpaying him. I would think he's worth closer to 7. He's on pace for just over 60 points, that's not a 9 million dollar player. I would MUCH rather spend that money on a defencemen like Barrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, Gstank29 said: Mackinnon isn't elite, You are throwing that term around like there are 60 elite players in the NHL How many Centermen are better than him in say.......within 3 years of his age.......maybe no elite now, but he will be very close before too long....and that is my point.......same as the amount of money.......I first said $50 million and then added offer more if Benning feels he has to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: How many Centermen are better than him in say.......within 3 years of his age.......maybe no elite now, but he will be very close before too long....and that is my point.......same as the amount of money.......I first said $50 million and then added offer more if Benning feels he has to. HE IS NOT A CENTRE he plays wing. Someone else argue with this guy Also Toews Eichel McDavid Matthews Johansen Barkov Backstrom Seguin Getzlaf Kopitar Bergeron ETC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 Just now, Gstank29 said: HE IS NOT A CENTRE he plays wing. Someone else argue with this guy GT.relax.......... He was drafted as a center, and plays on a team that already has a first line center.............don't be a jerk The whole point was to bring discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Its not that much higher than RNH, Hall and Eberle got coming off ELC's. What did Barkov get? Colorado may pay McKinnon that without an offer sheet. Its only a tiny bit high. I would not even be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 8 hours ago, Gstank29 said: HE IS NOT A CENTRE he plays wing. Someone else argue with this guy Also Toews Eichel McDavid Matthews Johansen Barkov Backstrom Seguin Getzlaf Kopitar Bergeron ETC Far too early to label him as a winger. If you watch the progression of guys like Seguin and Galchenyuk, both started out on the wing first. Over the years Colorado has had some excellent centers like Duchene, O'Reilly, Stastny and Soderberg. They have brought him along slowly and he should he ready to handle more responsibility that comes with playing as a center. OP, Colorado will match just about every single offer that doesn't return 4 first round picks. The Canucks will ruin their salary structure and they will retaliate by doing the same to the Canucks. It may also be giving the green light to the entire league to offer sheet guys like Horvat,Virtanen, McCann and Hutton. Not worth screwing a team over unless it benefits you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 11 hours ago, Gstank29 said: Yes, and Colorado would match so there's no point And it wouldn't make much sense either since we could get an even better player and not have to give up anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I see the OP's point, but maybe that little Mac isn't the guy to target. There will be a lot of RFA's available this year (quality RFA's) in addition to a lot of quality UFA's. I think EVERY GM's mission will be to secure the RFA's with lower bridge contracts in order to still be able to keep some vets (look at TBL and CBJ as classic examples of this). So with the lower dollar offers being made to RFA's this off-season, this may well be the best chance for us to toss a "hail mary". This team's draft picks from a few years ago are gone...these are the bridge guys we should be leaning on now as we transition to the up-and-comers. We traded them away. So maybe now the only way to at least get one back is to toss an OS at one of the other team's guys. This is a contact sport...you can't be afraid to go to the dirty areas, you can't be afraid to drop 'em...and you certainly can't be afraid of retaliation. You're either all in for the win or you may as well pack up your gear and go play rec hockey. With TBL all in on Stamkos (they're forced now) I say we target Kucherov...TBL won't be able to match if we get our capologist to get the OS figure just right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 38 minutes ago, ABNuck said: I see the OP's point, but maybe that little Mac isn't the guy to target. There will be a lot of RFA's available this year (quality RFA's) in addition to a lot of quality UFA's. I think EVERY GM's mission will be to secure the RFA's with lower bridge contracts in order to still be able to keep some vets (look at TBL and CBJ as classic examples of this). So with the lower dollar offers being made to RFA's this off-season, this may well be the best chance for us to toss a "hail mary". This team's draft picks from a few years ago are gone...these are the bridge guys we should be leaning on now as we transition to the up-and-comers. We traded them away. So maybe now the only way to at least get one back is to toss an OS at one of the other team's guys. This is a contact sport...you can't be afraid to go to the dirty areas, you can't be afraid to drop 'em...and you certainly can't be afraid of retaliation. You're either all in for the win or you may as well pack up your gear and go play rec hockey. With TBL all in on Stamkos (they're forced now) I say we target Kucherov...TBL won't be able to match if we get our capologist to get the OS figure just right. And our team will get a reputation as vultures. The moment Bo, or Hutton gets to RFA status they will retaliate. And worse yet teams won't want to trade with Vancouver. The other team will match. And the price for good players goes up. Oh I'm sorry what was the advantage again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said: And our team will get a reputation as vultures. The moment Bo, or Hutton gets to RFA status they will retaliate. And worse yet teams won't want to trade with Vancouver. The other team will match. And the price for good players goes up. Oh I'm sorry what was the advantage again? Sorry Ghost I disagree with your fear ...........there have been offer sheets before, as well as teams signing other teams picks, aka Justin Schultz. The point is every team is in it for themselves, if it betters their team, it won't matter what we did to Colorado. As for our own players, we can sign extensions to our core players and lock them up long term, so as to not let them be taken that way.......hey, if other teams do not want to do the same, their loss, matter of fact if all teams started doing it, it wouldn't be an issue to start with... But I can assure you that in 5 years time, no one remembers, and besides internal caps always come into play...... As for the vultures......Winnipeg was considered that when Chicago "had" to get rid of Ladd and Buf, NYI didn't when they scooped up the 2 Dmen from Boston and Chicago......they were forced plays, that received less than fair value. It is just business. Don't think that Chicago and Boston didn't have bad tastes in their mouths, but they still had to move on! (It was the best offers they got. If you are afraid to make moves, you end up playing around in the basement way too long, aka Edmonton. Also, just as a add on.................obtaining MacKinnon, makes McCann expendable, or at least allows him to be moved to the wing, instead of being thought of as our #1 Offensive centerman of the future (who can't win face-offs) So whether it is MacKinnon or another RFA, all I ask is you keep an open mind to the possibility.....the dollars and the term are up to Benning and Linden And just for the record......this idea is brought forward because of the very short window that the Sedin's have here or to be competitive. It suits multiple needs/purposes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 1 minute ago, janisahockeynut said: Sorry Ghost I disagree with your fear ...........there have been offer sheets before, as well as teams signing other teams picks, aka Justin Schultz. The point is every team is in it for themselves, if it betters their team, it won't matter what we did to Colorado. As for our own players, we can sign extensions to our core players and lock them up long term, so as to not let them be taken that way.......hey, if other teams do not want to do the same, their loss, matter of fact if all teams started doing it, it wouldn't be an issue to start with... But I can assure you that in 5 years time, no one remembers, and besides internal caps always come into play...... As for the vultures......Winnipeg was considered that when Chicago "had" to get rid of Ladd and Buf, NYI didn't when they scooped up the 2 Dmen from Boston and Chicago......they were forced plays, that received less than fair value. It is just business. Don't think that Chicago and Boston didn't have bad tastes in their mouths, but they still had to move on! (It was the best offers they got. If you are afraid to make moves, you end up playing around in the basement way too long, aka Edmonton. Also, just as a add on.................obtaining MacKinnon, makes McCann expendable, or at least allows him to be moved to the wing, instead of being thought of as our #1 Offensive centerman of the future (who can't win face-offs) So whether it is MacKinnon or another RFA, all I ask is you keep an open mind to the possibility.....the dollars and the term are up to Benning and Linden And just for the record......this idea is brought forward because of the very short window that the Sedin's have here or to be competitive. It suits multiple needs/purposes Because the only time it's worked was Dustin Penner. How did that work out? Is Kevin Lowe still a GM? You're dreaming if you think the Av's won't match. If it works how come Nashville still has Weber? We're better off trading and drafting. You make less enemies that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said: And our team will get a reputation as vultures. The moment Bo, or Hutton gets to RFA status they will retaliate. And worse yet teams won't want to trade with Vancouver. The other team will match. And the price for good players goes up. Oh I'm sorry what was the advantage again? How do you feel about Philly? Do you assign them the tag "vulture"? If a good trade was on the table from them would you walk away because it's "Philly the vultures"? Remember when Philly O/S'd Kesler? Same-same. It's business. The process of O/S is there so that team's who can't sign an RFA anyways due to cap restrictions at least gets compensated. What's better for TBL and Kucherov...they low-ball offer him (so now he's a RFA with offer) and he of course turns it down. He sits the year, TBL suffers and so does Kucherov. Or is it better to let him go, get a pick as compensation, and both move on. Plus he gets to play and the new team benefits as well. Sounds like a win-win-win vs. a lose-lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, ABNuck said: How do you feel about Philly? Do you assign them the tag "vulture"? If a good trade was on the table from them would you walk away because it's "Philly the vultures"? Remember when Philly O/S'd Kesler? Same-same. It's business. The process of O/S is there so that team's who can't sign an RFA anyways due to cap restrictions at least gets compensated. What's better for TBL and Kucherov...they low-ball offer him (so now he's a RFA with offer) and he of course turns it down. He sits the year, TBL suffers and so does Kucherov. Or is it better to let him go, get a pick as compensation, and both move on. Plus he gets to play and the new team benefits as well. Sounds like a win-win-win vs. a lose-lose. Or you can sign Stamkos as a UFA and get a great player without losing picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 Just now, Ghostsof1915 said: Because the only time it's worked was Dustin Penner. How did that work out? Is Kevin Lowe still a GM? You're dreaming if you think the Av's won't match. If it works how come Nashville still has Weber? We're better off trading and drafting. You make less enemies that way. I understand your point of view and will agree that your opinion is the norm, but it would push us up the development ladder, and give us a guaranteed #1. You can't be afraid to do something different, because of the unknown, or it has never been done before, this is how you progress..... Looking at our prospects, and young pro's, I think we would do quite well, if we had that #1 young center. The only thing other than that is a top end Dman, who can make a quick accurate outlet pass, so as to hit our above average speedy forwards. (Nothing worse for a forward than to get in the clear and get a puck up your butt because the Damn can't get it to you stick) And why would you bring Kevin Lowe into the discussion??????? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Or you can sign Stamkos as a UFA and get a great player without losing picks. Yes, but you get into a bidding war and throw your internal cap into a tizzy............remember how much we paid for Sundin and Messier.....and how long ago was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 12 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Or you can sign Stamkos as a UFA and get a great player without losing picks. Now I feel like you're arguing your point just to save face. Sure sign Stammer to 10mil a year and be up against the cap ceiling, or O/S Kucherov to 1/2 that amount, and still be able to sign Yandle, Goligoski or Demers...I'll take the 2 player deal please and thank-you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaerToBo Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I do not want to do it because of the only comparable that comes to mind. It was not an offersheet but the return was similar. Remember the Phil Kessel trade? The return was something like 2 1st round picks + for Kessel. Those 2 1sts ended up being Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton. The way it's similar is we would be moving out 2 picks that could end up being top-5 and make a huge difference to the rebuild. I like the idea but I would rather keep the picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintPatrick33 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Only 3 years into his career, putting up 50-60. He could jump big and has the talent to do so, the guy is a bonafide #1 pick and I like the idea of going after a stud like that. I think he is due to make the jump to elite level soon. 2 first rounders might be a lot however, given our D is still weak. I like moves like you mentioned how the Isles got Leddy and Boychuck from cap starved teams. Those moves turned the isles into playoff lock and semi-contendor. Hope JB pulls a move like that rather than going all in, even though I think MacK is a beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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