Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[ohmy]

29 minutes ago, aGENT said:

My Gordie you guys 

They get there jollies on prospects not doing well and like to rub it in our faces or pretend what better GMs they would be if they made the picks. Its an embarrasment really since there arguments are based on hindsight. But hey its a long season and I dont fret over short term struggles. If you have a decent eye for hockey you know how good some of these prospects can be. 

[R.Dahlin26]

2 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

most guys drafted at 5th overall take a longer road to production in the NHL than say a First overall... which is what CDC seems to expect all our prospects to perform like.  Juolevi will be fine.  

Now it's expecting him to perform like a first overall pick?

 

How about a top 5 pick, which he is.

 

In the last decade, looking at top 5 picks. The only non Nhler's by their D+2 season are Dylan Strome, MDC, and Griffen Reinhart.

 

Right now it's looking like he's not even close to NHL ready, with being healty scratched and only the 7th d-man in the finnish league.

 

Remenber this isn't some mid round prospcet or even a late first round prospect, this is a top 5 pick, a pick that was already highly questionable with the players they passed on. Right now the desicion is not looking great.

[Tiger-Hearted]

1 hour ago, Jester13 said:

I do think it's a good thing for his development. My concern with OJ has always been his mindset towards the game. He seems to have a "don't tell me what to do" kind of style, which imho is not a great sign, and for me it's a concern. On the ice when he gets beat he seems to give up a little. Off the ice when he's questioned he seems to give a little attitude. 

 

This is all perception on my part, obviously, and I hope I'm wrong, but I do hope that he learns from the adversity he's currently experiencing, because I thinks it's the right call to give him a little wakeup call. 

 

Edit: is it possible he has an entitlement issue? 

You're making an honest observation. I remember when OJ was drafted, he seemed to be somewhat cocky and overconfident about his ability and style when he was being interviewed. Saying that he deserved to be the top d-man selected is a red flag, considering Mikhail Sergachev's success in the NHL right now. 

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/olli-juolevi-confident-canucks-prospect/c-281142474

[J-Dizzle]

1 minute ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

Now it's expecting him to perform like a first overall pick?

 

How about a top 5 pick, which he is.

 

In the last decade, looking at top 5 picks. The only non Nhler's by their D+2 season are Dylan Strome, MDC, and Griffen Reinhart.

 

Right now it's looking like he's not even close to NHL ready, with being healty scratched and only the 7th d-man in the finnish league.

 

Remenber this isn't some mid round prospcet or even a late first round prospect, this is a top 5 pick, a pick that was already highly questionable with the players they passed on. Right now the desicion is not looking great.

NHL or not look at the history of the 5th overall pick.  It's not a gimme pick by any means.  You've got guys like Luke Schenn, Strome and Kristov who leave something to be desired and you've got guys like Kessel, Price, Wheeler and Vanek.  You're acting like pick 5 is a slam dunk and it's not... and with that being said, there's absolutely no reason to be writing Juolevi off at this point.. a little adversity in the life of a prospect isn't the end of the world (see fellow 5th overall Neiderreiter).  

[ForsbergTheGreat]

18 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

most guys drafted at 5th overall take a longer road to production in the NHL than say a First overall... which is what CDC seems to expect all our prospects to perform like.  Juolevi will be fine.  

Not quite.  Most Defense top 10 picks (not 1sr overalls) are in the NHL, draft +2 season.

 

From 2016-2007 (10 years)

Sergachev, Werenski, Provorov, Hanifin, Jones, Ristolienen, Larsson, Hamilton, Brodin, Reilly, Lindholm, Trouba. Gudbranson, Hedman, OEL, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Schenn, Cowen, Alzner    Even Dumba and Nurse played NHL games in their draft +2 season

 

The only players not to play NHL games Fleury, Koekkoek, Pouliot, McIlrath, Hickey, Ellerby, Reinhart

 

With that said, I don't think it's a concern, I still see Joulevi as a Ryan Ellis type player.  Ellis didn't play a full season in the NHL till his draft+5 season. Now he's a very good quality top 4 D.  

Edited February 3, 2018 by ForsbergTheGreat

[Rob_Zepp]

Some of you guys are hilarious.   Imagine you will all disappear once he is in NHL and starring for your team.   

 

Kid is is having one of the best rookie seasons in his league at this position all-time and was a man among boys at WJC.   

[J-Dizzle]

Just now, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Not quite.  Most top 10 picks (not 1sr overalls) are in the NHL, draft +2 season.

 

From 2016-2008

Sergachev, Werenski, Provorov, Hanifin, Jones, Ristolienen, Larsson, Hamilton, Brodin, Reilly, Lindholm, Trouba. Gudbranson, Hedman, OEL, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Schenn, Cowen, Alzner    Even Dumba and Nurse played NHL games in their draft +2 season

 

The only players not to play NHL games Fleury, Koekkoek, Pouliot, McIlrath, Hickey, Ellerby

 

With that said, I don't think it's a concern, I still see Joulevi as a Ryan Ellis type player.  Ellis didn't play a full season in the NHL till his draft+5 season. Now he's a very good quality top 4 D.  

Note I said, "NHL production" :D.  Most of these guys are in the NHL fairly quickly but the road to production varies a bit more with your 2-10 guys it would seem.  

 

 

[R.Dahlin26]

Just now, J-Dizzle said:

NHL or not look at the history of the 5th overall pick.  It's not a gimme pick by any means.  You've got guys like Luke Schenn, Strome and Kristov who leave something to be desired and you've got guys like Kessel, Price, Wheeler and Vanek.  You're acting like pick 5 is a slam dunk and it's not... and with that being said, there's absolutely no reason to be writing Juolevi off at this point.. a little adversity in the life of a prospect isn't the end of the world (see fellow 5th overall Neiderreiter).  

Yes, if you make the correct choice in the top 5, it shouldn't take more than 1 year for that prospect to be ready, 2 years tops (see Pietrangelo).

 

If it's taking 3-5 years for a top 5 pick to be an NHL'er let alone an impact player then there is something seriosly wrong with that prospect. They either are big dissapointments or busts.

 

No one is writing Juolevi off. But to say he is fine and his development has gone as planned is false. This upcoming training camp will be significant for Juolevi and his future. He should be one of the better players at this time and make the team next fall for the 2018-2019 season and start making strides towards being a top 4 d-man.

[J-Dizzle]

5 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

Yes, if you make the correct choice in the top 5, it shouldn't take more than 1 year for that prospect to be ready, 2 years tops (see Pietrangelo).

 

If it's taking 3-5 years for a top 5 pick to be an NHL'er let alone an impact player then there is something seriosly wrong with that prospect. They either are big dissapointments or busts.

 

No one is writing Juolevi off. But to say he is fine and his development has gone as planned is false. This upcoming training camp will be significant for Juolevi and his future. He should be one of the better players at this time and make the team next fall for the 2018-2019 season and start making strides towards being a top 4 d-man.

How's this.... I think He's fine and his development is going as planned.  

 

If you're labeling Olli a disappointment or bust I don't know what to tell you.... you can see about 3 years further into the future than I can.  

 

Edit:  Even if Olli fails (which I don't think he will at all)... it happens.  He was still a good pick at the time... sometimes for whatever reason prospects don't turn into what they're projected to be.  

Edited February 3, 2018 by J-Dizzle

[ohmy]

15 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Some of you guys are hilarious.   Imagine you will all disappear once he is in NHL and starring for your team.   

 

Kid is is having one of the best rookie seasons in his league at this position all-time and was a man among boys at WJC.   

Yep you got it they sure will. Dhaliwal just tweeted how Juolevi and the coach talked about the healthy scratches being for him to rest physically and mentally. So that is more along  the lines of lack of energy then the skills all of a sudden disappearing. People forget its his first year against men and seasoned veterans. He has excelled for most of the year and looks to be on track to come to North America next year. His chance at making the team will be determined by numerous factors but he will have a chance. Whether he is ready at the beginning of the season or after some seasoning in the A is fine by me. I believe he will make a fairly smooth transition to the NHL. This kid is only getting better, I mean were talking about a 19 year old freakin kid here!

Edited February 3, 2018 by ohmy

[ohmy]

14 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

Yes, if you make the correct choice in the top 5, it shouldn't take more than 1 year for that prospect to be ready, 2 years tops (see Pietrangelo).

 

If it's taking 3-5 years for a top 5 pick to be an NHL'er let alone an impact player then there is something seriosly wrong with that prospect. They either are big dissapointments or busts.

 

No one is writing Juolevi off. But to say he is fine and his development has gone as planned is false. This upcoming training camp will be significant for Juolevi and his future. He should be one of the better players at this time and make the team next fall for the 2018-2019 season and start making strides towards being a top 4 d-man.

FYI Pietrangelo was in his Draft +3 before he was ready. Just for facts sake.

[J-Dizzle]

4 minutes ago, ohmy said:

Yep you got it they sure will. Dhaliwal just tweeted how Juolevi and the coach talked about the healthy scratches being for him to rest physically and mentally. So that is more along  the lines of lack of energy then the skills all of a sudden disappearing. People forget its his first year against men and seasoned veterans. He has excelled for most of the year and looks to be on track to come to North America next year. His chance at making the team will be determined by numerous factors but he will have a chance. Whether he is ready at the beginning of the season or after some seasoning in the A is fine by me. I believe he will make a fairly smooth transition to the NHL. This kid is only getting better, I mean were talking about a 19 year old freakin kid here!

Get out of here.... the only reason one of our prospects could be a healthy scratch in a men's league is that he is destined to fail which is proof that our management team ought to be tarred and feathered.  

 

 

 

[Brobidus]

8 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

Yes, if you make the correct choice in the top 5, it shouldn't take more than 1 year for that prospect to be ready, 2 years tops (see Pietrangelo).

 

If it's taking 3-5 years for a top 5 pick to be an NHL'er let alone an impact player then there is something seriosly wrong with that prospect. They either are big dissapointments or busts.

 

No one is writing Juolevi off. But to say he is fine and his development has gone as planned is false. This upcoming training camp will be significant for Juolevi and his future. He should be one of the better players at this time and make the team next fall for the 2018-2019 season and start making strides towards being a top 4 d-man.

I feel this way too, I'm a little worried with Juolevi. 
Maybe he was taken much earlier than he should have been and he ends up taking his time. We honestly don't even know why he is being scratched, or what part of his play/ lifestyle needs changing. He was rocking it pre-WJC, he rocked it at the WJC. He has hit an obstacle. I'd be interested in finding out what it is.

One thought that might illustrate this is the following: There could be up to 3 defensemen in the top 15 of this upcoming draft that will, imo, take a while to get to the NHL in Boqvist, Hughes and Merkley. 

We don't know what the initial plan and projection was going to be for him. We can all say that his past training camp was not what we had hoped from a top prospect. This upcoming camp though will be important, but not of the highest significance. If he goes to Utica as the first call up, kind of like Thomas Chabot right now, then there's nothing to really complain about. Especially seeing as we have 4 LHD in the line-up, and all except Pouliot have a contract for next season. Something will have to be addressed here, but it is so much easier to let Juolevi marinate, and I suspect that is what is going to happen. This could also be a good thing if Dahlen/ Pettersson/ Lind/ Gadjovich come over to Utica, get them some time to play with Demko/ Brisebois/ etc and develop some chemistry.

[R.Dahlin26]

1 minute ago, ohmy said:

FYI Pietrangelo was in his Draft +3 before he was ready. Just for facts sake.

Yes, it shouldn't take 2 years. 

 

Pietrangelo went D+1 - D+2 - NHL. So two seasons of developing in the OHL with NHL games sprinkled in. Put up 40 points in rookie season.

 

So Juolevi would have to be in the NHL by next year to follow Pietrangeo's path.

[Ihatetomatoes]

15 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

Yes, if you make the correct choice in the top 5, it shouldn't take more than 1 year for that prospect to be ready, 2 years tops (see Pietrangelo).

 

If it's taking 3-5 years for a top 5 pick to be an NHL'er let alone an impact player then there is something seriosly wrong with that prospect. They either are big dissapointments or busts.

 

No one is writing Juolevi off. But to say he is fine and his development has gone as planned is false. This upcoming training camp will be significant for Juolevi and his future. He should be one of the better players at this time and make the team next fall for the 2018-2019 season and start making strides towards being a top 4 d-man.

That's arguable because I'd say his development has gone close to as expected. His main hurdle was gaining size, he did that over the off season. That was a big step and it would have been nice if that made him NHL ready but his speed and fitness took a hit which was clearly evident.  He's put on size, now with this year and an off-season of training to get fit and work on his speed and adjust to his size he should be right on track to being an NHL player next year. 

 

If he looks lost and not ready next year I'd say there is cause for concern but physically he was very immature when drafted and his body needed to catch up. Next year will be a big tell all.

[Jester13]

24 minutes ago, Tiger-Hearted said:

You're making an honest observation. I remember when OJ was drafted, he seemed to be somewhat cocky and overconfident about his ability and style when he was being interviewed. Saying that he deserved to be the top d-man selected is a red flag, considering Mikhail Sergachev's success in the NHL right now. 

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/olli-juolevi-confident-canucks-prospect/c-281142474

Yeah, confidence is a good quality, but overconfidence or cockiness is a fine line to walk. 

 

My concern with that type of attitude is that I've known people who talk a good game, but when they face tough competition or are beaten they give up and pout. I'm not saying that's what he's doing, but that it could possibly be his personality. 

 

It happens, though, where sometimes a player has to be developed mentally as well. I'll say this: when he gets his chance to play in the best league in the world, where he believes he belongs, he better show that he does belong to play with the best. 

[ohmy]

1 minute ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

Yes, it shouldn't take 2 years. 

 

Pietrangelo went D+1 - D+2 - NHL. So two seasons of developing in the OHL with NHL games sprinkled in. Put up 40 points in rookie season.

 

So Juolevi would have to be in the NHL by next year to follow Pietrangeo's path.

Yeah but for Pietrangelo it did take 2 years though. A 9 game cup of coffee with 2 pts and -9 does not mean ready. I fully expect for Juolevi to debut next year at some point whether beginning or midway through the season.

[R.Dahlin26]

Just now, Ihatetomatoes said:

That's arguable because I'd say his development has gone close to as expected. His main hurdle was gaining size, he did that over the off season. That was a big step and it would have been nice if that made him NHL ready but his speed and fitness took a hit which was clearly evident.  He's put on size, now with this year and an off-season of training to get fit and work on his speed and adjust to his size he should be right on track to being an NHL player next year. 

 

If he looks lost and not ready next year I'd say there is cause for concern but physically he was very immature when drafted and his body needed to catch up. Next year will be a big tell all.

IMO, his development has not gone as planned or expected at least it shouldn't when you're picking in the top 5. They shouldn't take more than 1-2 years and should be impact players.

 

I was hoping for him to at least look like he was close to making the team last year but in training camp his perferomnce was very bad. Being danced around by nobody's in the prospcts tournamnet and had a bad showing in the pre-season.

 

That was with a year of deveolpment under his belt. Like you said it might be because of gaining size, but all prospects gain size and have to adjust.

 

Agreed on the last part, if he looks lost next year that would be very concerning with what would be 2 years of deveolpment under his belt.

 

 

[R.Dahlin26]

7 minutes ago, ohmy said:

Yeah but for Pietrangelo it did take 2 years though. A 9 game cup of coffee with 2 pts and -9 does not mean ready. I fully expect for Juolevi to debut next year at some point whether beginning or midway through the season.

Yes by 2 years Pietrangelo was a full time NHL'er, put up 40+ points in rookie season and was a top 4 d-man.

 

By the same timeline, Juolevi should make the team out of camp next year and be a full time NHL'er making strides becoming a top 4 d-man.

Edited February 3, 2018 by R.Dahlin26

[ohmy]

5 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

Yes by 2 years Pietrangelo was a full time NHL'er, put up 40+ points in rookie season and was a top 4 d-man.

 

By the same timeline, Juolevi should make the team out of camp next year and be a full time NHL'er making strides becoming a top 4 d-man.

I agree he should be making strides to become a top4 dman but I'm okay if he plays 15-20 games in the A just like Chabot did.