ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 40 minutes ago, CeeBee51 said: Probably is when he steps on the bathroom scale anyway BTW, I like Boudreau too but I like a few other head coaches even better. Oh for sure he's not the greatest coach, I was just using him as an example of how most coaches start their NHL career mid season as opposed to at the start of the year. Starting mid season and still having success shouldn't be viewed as a deterrent on a coach. For example Scotty Bowman only had 58 games in his first NHL head coaching year, it would have been pretty hard for him to get over 100 points that year, but he did manage to take his team to the Stanley cup finals in his first 3 years. The point is rookie season success isn't just judged based on total points, it's not an even playing field to judge everyone, and to make matters worse, alf didn't even provide an accurate statement.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 2 hours ago, J.R. said: If I recall, our top 3 lines 5v5 times aren't separated by all that much. And Horvat's been getting more as time goes on. I'd certainly be open to the 2nd unit getting more PP time though. Call that a WD 'failing' if you must. The risk is that you make the other lines worse by pulling a good player off of a well functioning line. WD tried LE with them last game to the detriment of the Sutter line. Didn't help the Sedins produce any more, as I expected, as LE isn't a terribly good fit with them as I've been saying since last spring. Didn't help the Sutter line. Made the team worse. I know Rodin can't be effective because, like Eriksson but way smaller,less skilled, 6 months behind and with a still not 100% and now re-tweaked knee... he's not going to go in to corners/boards and battle for/retrieve pucks or fly back and break up plays defensively. Actually Horvat's EV toi went down. The NHL website only tracks EV which includes OT and situations where the goalie is pulled. Over the season at EV - Horvat is 7th among Fs with 13:33 between Granlund (6th 13:55) and Baertschi (8th 13:05). Over the last 7 games (ie his 7 game point streak) he is at 12:50 and Baer is at 11:40. Baer's TOI is more indicative of their TOI as a line because Horvat is often out to protect the lead so it bumps his EV TOI. He also takes defensive draws for other lines. Their TOI at 5v5 is actually the same (unsurprisingly). Corsica has the totals at 5v5 but you have to do the maths yourself - I have the numbers at the 38 game mark. Horvat and Baer were at 12:40 at 5v5. Granlund was at 13:15. Eriksson at 13:45 and Henrik at 14:45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 30 minutes ago, bohoforpresident said: Lol I knew you were going to say I thought WD was a better coach than Boudreau. I NEVER SAID THAT. Predictable rebuttle from you as per usual. All I was saying was there isn't a black and white metric for measuring a coaches success. No, you can't just compare the win column like YOU do. They had different rosters, and who is to say that one coach might have incredible success with one group and not be able to get through to a different group.? On Boudreau.. That wouldn't be the first time a coaching change improved a teams record and it wont be the last. As I said ... A different coach could probably get a few more wins out of this Canucks group. Also, as I said in my post and you decided to ignore... The belief a team is under achieving is a common reason for a coaching change. Thanks for adding a little bit of that 'proof' you were talking about to one of my points. Maybe you're not understanding this. I didn't make the claim that WD is the 3rd winningest rookie coach ever in the NHL. It's pretty hard to prove that claim wrong without providing factual evidence that it is incorrect. The claim made had nothing to do with roster quality, the claim only addressed the winning column, so why would i provide a response with anything other than that column? I can't believe your having that hard of time grasping this concept. If I make an incorrect claim that Bure scored the most goals ever in the NHL, are you going to lose you mind when someone responds to my claim, listing player with a higher goal total? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, mll said: Actually Horvat's EV toi went down. The NHL website only tracks EV which includes OT and situations where the goalie is pulled. Over the season at EV - Horvat is 7th among Fs with 13:33 between Granlund (6th 13:55) and Baertschi (8th 13:05). Over the last 7 games (ie his 7 game point streak) he is at 12:50 and Baer is at 11:40. Baer's TOI is more indicative of their TOI as a line because Horvat is often out to protect the lead so it bumps his EV TOI. He also takes defensive draws for other lines. Their TOI at 5v5 is actually the same (unsurprisingly). Corsica has the totals at 5v5 but you have to do the maths yourself - I have the numbers at the 38 game mark. Horvat and Baer were at 12:40 at 5v5. Granlund was at 13:15. Eriksson at 13:45 and Henrik at 14:45. There 5v5 times are within a couple shifts of each other. As I said, 5v5, the top 3 lines get almost equal TOI. A shift or two is pretty explainable by match ups, in game situations, score etc. It's a mountain out of a molehill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 minute ago, J.R. said: There 5v5 times are within a couple shifts of each other. As I said, 5v5, the top 3 lines get almost equal TOI. A shift or two is pretty explainable by match ups, in game situations, score etc. It's a mountain out of a molehill. Players are so aware of ice time though. One minute more is one shift more, one more opportunity to score. Over 38 games at 5v5 it's 80 minutes (1h 20min) for Henrik over Horvat. At EV it's 100min less for Horvat - 1hour 40min. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 minute ago, mll said: Players are so aware of ice time though. One minute more is one shift more, one more opportunity to score. Over 38 games at 5v5 it's 80 minutes (1h 20min) for Henrik over Horvat. At EV it's 100min less for Horvat - 1hour 40min. Git yer climb'n gear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabinessence Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 hour ago, J-23 said: Did you guys hear, Shorthouse and Blake from 1040 got into an argument on whether Rodin should've played against the Flames after the game. The argument got heated, I think Shorthouse got pissed and I think he said "I'm glad I don't have to do radio to the end of February." Then he left... I heard that. House radio at it's best. Don't want to directly criticize Coach Willie or else.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 15 hours ago, S'all Good Man said: Classic? not sure what that means. Barry Trots would have been great. I wish Linden had pushed hard for that. Not sure why you're dismissing Crawford - check the record, he had a great run with us, and with his international experience since then he would have been really good imo helping guys like Baer and Rodin make the transition to the NHL, and he has won a cup. And yes I think the team deserves better than "fine". I feel like I"m arguing for people to put brown sugar on oatmeal and I'm getting pushback because sugar isn't necessary for breakfast. Plain oatmeal is "fine" the way it is. I remember Crawford well. Look it isn't that I dislike Crawford, it's just that aside from having a more varied history I don't know that he would or wouldn't do a better job than WD is right now with this group. He pretty much rode the coattails of his Colorado Cup (when's the last time you looked at that roster by the way - I'm pretty sure you and/or I could have coached that team to a Cup) into Vancouver, struggled with the team for a few seasons, deployed the West Coast Express after telling them to go score another, went back to struggling, was fired, then had 2 more jobs in 4 years (LA and Dallas) where he was fired from both before ending up in Sweden. Willie is doing a fine job of overseeing Tryamkin, Baer, Horvat, Granlund, yes Hutton is struggling and Rodin has had bad injury luck but the first 4 really aren't up for debate. Those 4 guys are trending upwards and you'd like to upset the apple cart in search of more. Again, I'm not cheerleading for WD here, and my resistance to your idea stems more from a personal distaste for relieving a coach mid-season, especially when there are clear positives in his corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 16 minutes ago, Green Building said: I remember Crawford well. Look it isn't that I dislike Crawford, it's just that aside from having a more varied history I don't know that he would or wouldn't do a better job than WD is right now with this group. He pretty much rode the coattails of his Colorado Cup (when's the last time you looked at that roster by the way - I'm pretty sure you and/or I could have coached that team to a Cup) into Vancouver, struggled with the team for a few seasons, deployed the West Coast Express after telling them to go score another, went back to struggling, was fired, then had 2 more jobs in 4 years (LA and Dallas) where he was fired from both before ending up in Sweden. Willie is doing a fine job of overseeing Tryamkin, Baer, Horvat, Granlund, yes Hutton is struggling and Rodin has had bad injury luck but the first 4 really aren't up for debate. Those 4 guys are trending upwards and you'd like to upset the apple cart in search of more. Again, I'm not cheerleading for WD here, and my resistance to your idea stems more from a personal distaste for relieving a coach mid-season, especially when there are clear positives in his corner. Yah admittedly I'm probably over doing it on WD. I never liked the hire from the get go so i'm nit picking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 minute ago, S'all Good Man said: Yah admittedly I'm probably over doing it on WD. I never like the hire from the get go so i'm nit picking. Ya think?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 VintageCanuck should go in and edit this thread title to "All that is right - and wrong - with the team and it's coach". It has taken on a life far beyond just Calgary post game discussion (and is fairly riveting reading, given the variety of topics simultaneously being aired) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Googlie said: VintageCanuck should go in and edit this thread title to "All that is right - and wrong - with the team and it's coach". It has taken on a life far beyond just Calgary post game discussion (and is fairly riveting reading, given the variety of topics simultaneously being aired) PGT's can turn into that around here. Especially with so many potentially polarizing issues at the ready. 18 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: Yah admittedly I'm probably over doing it on WD. I never liked the hire from the get go so i'm nit picking. Freedom of expression baby. Let's all enjoy some freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, Green Building said: PGT's can turn into that around here. Especially with so many potentially polarizing issues at the ready. Freedom of expression baby. Let's all enjoy some freedom. any more freedom out of me and JRs gonna beat me over the head with something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, Green Building said: PGT's can turn into that around here. Especially with so many potentially polarizing issues at the ready. Freedom of expression baby. Let's all enjoy some freedom. 2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: any more freedom out of me and JRs gonna beat me over the head with something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: any more freedom out of me and JRs gonna beat me over the head with something We all pick our own battles around here, even the ones that come to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bohoforpresident Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Maybe you're not understanding this. I didn't make the claim that WD is the 3rd winningest rookie coach ever in the NHL. It's pretty hard to prove that claim wrong without providing factual evidence that it is incorrect. The claim made had nothing to do with roster quality, the claim only addressed the winning column, so why would i provide a response with anything other than that column? I can't believe your having that hard of time grasping this concept. If I make an incorrect claim that Bure scored the most goals ever in the NHL, are you going to lose you mind when someone responds to my claim, listing player with a higher goal total? I didn't realize what poster was saying. You little stat rattler. No I would never lose my mind over Canuck Forum Analyst @ForsbergTheGreat. Since I'm used to reading your posts it wouldn't surprise me at all that you had applied stats incorrectly again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino#29 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 hour ago, cabinessence said: I heard that. House radio at it's best. Don't want to directly criticize Coach Willie or else.... short house is a company man,the NHL and ferry bettman can do no wrong.the refs are always right too.i can't stand the little twerp.he could learn thing or two from jim robson.he actually knew what he was talking about.shorthouse loves the sound of his own voice and his $100 words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 20 hours ago, Darius71 said: Hathaway is an AHL hack who is good at getting under the other team's skin. He isnt even that tough when the gloves drop - he was dumb enough to mix it up with Bufglin (too lazy to look up the spelling) and Brent burns and he was slapped around like a muppet. In the AHL he got his arse handed to him by a guy named Max McCormick who is about 3 inches shorter and about 30lbs lighter. But...I think we need a couple guys that are punishers and rats like that. If other teams want to take the game to the gutter we can deploy the same tactics instead of bending over. I know ill get flamed for this but this is one of the reasons I wished we had signed Jamie McGinn. Hes a solid guy that can hit like a truck and get you about .4 ppg. He can separate guys from the puck and take the game to the gutter if need be. He got about 3.3 million to play with Arizona. Not sure if he would have ever signed here but hes the kind of guy I would like to see in the bottom 6. Maybe Labate can turn into something similar who knows... Hathaway looked pretty good beating Edler wide to set up the second goal. I wanted McGinn too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 20 hours ago, Honky Cat said: I'm interested to see if he remains in the Canucks future..? Sure makes sense to keep him around, even if you end up losing him to waivers. I liked his skating a lot and it wouldn't blow me away to see him get a lot more comfortable, especially if our PP wasn't so crappy in the first place. On the other hand, Button said that Larsen is straight-up not an NHL player, and I tend to find his opinion to be quite trustworthy - he said this summer that Stecher would make the NHL sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 19 hours ago, J.R. said: Honestly haven't looked out East yet. If it was Arizona, I like Domi (something like Tanev + Granlund for Domi and a 2nd or 3rd). Have to look at which teams have protection space. NYR has an ancient blue line and a bevy of good-looking forwards and prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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