JM_ Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 25 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: What about Christianaphobia or Judaphobia, or Hinduphobia or Buddhaphobia? What a ridiculous bill passed by a ridiculous government. What about Bountiful-phobia? Now theres some sh!t to be afraid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, elvis15 said: All you've done in this thread is tell others they're wrong, so forgive us for not being completely clear on your stance on the subject. I'm with Fateless, it's a motion (not a law) and is just meant to promote more positive speech around religion by reducing hate speech. I also agree that it's essentially useless and a waste of taxpayer money, although maybe something comes out of it all being looked into as part of the motion. Hey mini-mod I was the first person in this thread to point out it's a motion not a law. Thx for coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 22 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Yet islamophobia is name checked. Why? In fairness I think to try to combat some home grown radicalization, but it was ill conceived. The backlash to it has probably done more harm than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: well then its settled, lets hand over the keys As soon as Mad Max wins, deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Just now, Ryan Strome said: As soon as Mad Max wins, deal? Nope, Maxy's gotta earn it in the general election. He'd have it no other way right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Just now, S'all Good Man said: Nope, Maxy's gotta earn it. He'd have it no other way right? No I mean give him the keys. Losers like Chong need to go join the Liberals and O'clown can go back to dragons den or shark tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRypien37 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 33 minutes ago, Fateless said: I gave three reasons why you were wrong. Can you point to objective evidence that supports your position that this bill gives Muslims more rights than other religions, and promotes Sharia Law? Who made you king of the world? Just because you say you're right and "everyone" else is wrong doesn't make it so. No one is talking about promoting Sharia Law. The issue at hand is this is a starting point to potentially further legislation/propositions/bills. Ever heard of the saying, give someone a finger, they want a hand, give someone a hand they want the arm...ect ect. Do you want Canada to turn into Western Europe or Scandinavia? I have seen first handle what has happened in Sweden. It's a jungle of chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 18 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: In fairness I think to try to combat some home grown radicalization, but it was ill conceived. The backlash to it has probably done more harm than good. It was very ill conceived. " The motion states that the members of the House of Commons call on the Government of Canada to condemn Islamophobia in Canada and "all forms of systemic racism and religious discrimination". The separation of terms here is a poor choice on the government's part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 13 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: In 2013 total number of religion based hate crimes stood at 326. According to the stats 58% of those occurred against the Jews, also Muslims outnumber Jews 3:1 in Canada. Jews were most targeted in Toronto in 2015, according to the police. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2015001/article/14191-eng.htm https://www.torontopolice.on.ca/publications/files/reports/2015hatecrimereport.pdf Fair enough, and it's reasonable that that could be the case in other areas as well, so I'll restate Fateless' comment: targeting and fear-mongering against Muslims and the religion of Islam is by far the most public and publicized essentially since 9-11. The US and it's media drives this, and being such a significant force in what people hear it definitely deserves attention. Considering the percentage of hate against Jews based on that information they could certainly use more attention as well, but when the focus of a National election just south of us basically enabled hate against both Muslims and Mexicans (and we don't share a border with Mexico) it doesn't hurt to bring the situation some more light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fateless Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, RRypien37 said: Who made you king of the world? Just because you say you're right and "everyone" else is wrong doesn't make it so. No one is talking about promoting Sharia Law. The issue at hand is this is a starting point to potentially further legislation/propositions/bills. Ever heard of the saying, give someone a finger, they want a hand, give someone a hand they want the arm...ect ect. Do you want Canada to turn into Western Europe or Scandinavia? I have seen first handle what has happened in Sweden. It's a jungle of chaos. Again, I gave multiple reasons that supported my position while no one gave any evidence that supports that the motion gives Muslims more rights than other religious groups. You're here telling me I'm not the "king of the world", but you've failed to present any facts that prove I'm wrong and you're right. Your opinion is not as valuable as the facts I presented. I'm more than willing to change my stance if you can prove that I'm wrong. You haven't done that though. Lots of people are talking about this motion as promoting Sharia Law. I acknowledge that hasn't been the focus of this thread, but are large number of people believe that this motion is a "stepping stone" to Sharia Law in Canada. That is the fear I'm rejecting with facts. And why is everyone so afraid of further laws in this area anyways? This motion literally advances no further societal rules and laws that don't already exist. Its already illegal to use hate speech and to promote hatred against identifiable groups (e.g. - religious groups like Muslims, Jews, Christians, etc). This motion treats everyone equally and while it symbolically gave a gesture towards the Muslim community due to the widespread terror around their religion worldwide, that symbol does not translate into any extra rights that other religious groups don't get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Fateless said: Again, I gave multiple reasons that supported my position while no one gave any evidence that supports that the motion gives Muslims more rights than other religious groups. You're here telling me I'm not the "king of the world", but you've failed to present any facts that prove I'm wrong and you're right. Your opinion is not as valuable as the facts I presented. I'm more than willing to change my stance if you can prove that I'm wrong. You haven't done that though. Lots of people are talking about this motion as promoting Sharia Law. I acknowledge that hasn't been the focus of this thread, but are large number of people believe that this motion is a "stepping stone" to Sharia Law in Canada. That is the fear I'm rejecting with facts. And why is everyone so afraid of further laws in this area anyways? This motion literally advances no further societal rules and laws that don't already exist. Its already illegal to use hate speech and to promote hatred against identifiable groups (e.g. - religious groups like Muslims, Jews, Christians, etc). This motion treats everyone equally and while it symbolically gave a gesture towards the Muslim community due to the widespread terror around their religion worldwide, that symbol does not translate into any extra rights that other religious groups don't get. Is singling out the Muslim community (considering today's current climate about Islam) a smart idea though? Might this not make matters worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fateless Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, elvis15 said: Fair enough, and it's reasonable that that could be the case in other areas as well, so I'll restate Fateless' comment: targeting and fear-mongering against Muslims and the religion of Islam is by far the most public and publicized essentially since 9-11. The US and it's media drives this, and being such a significant force in what people hear it definitely deserves attention. Considering the percentage of hate against Jews based on that information they could certainly use more attention as well, but when the focus of a National election just south of us basically enabled hate against both Muslims and Mexicans (and we don't share a border with Mexico) it doesn't hurt to bring the situation some more light. Yes, this is what I was trying to express. Thanks Elvis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fateless Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Just now, Alflives said: Is singling out the Muslim community (considering today's current climate about Islam) a smart idea though? Might this not make matters worse? Why? Its addressing a big issue which is a lot of people are scared of Muslims and are lashing out at them. The motion was only drafted as a symbolic gesture to show Canada's support for the Muslim community while acknowledging that it supports all other religions equally and will treat Islam the same. The Muslim community has been singled out since 9/11. This motion simply said that like all other religions, no hate towards Islam will be tolerated in Canada. And guess what. That's nothing new. Its been illegal to target Muslims due to their religion for decades. This motion added nothing new to Canada and everyone is blowing it out of proportion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 23 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: Hey mini-mod I was the first person in this thread to point out it's a motion not a law. Thx for coming out. Wait, so you're Heretic? Dual accounts? Not sure how else you'd be first when the very first word in the OP was 'Motion'. Sure, some misunderstand that and think it's a law, but some misunderstand Islam being the only religion mentioned as meaning that gives them different rights, invites Sharia Law, or somehow it's an infringement on free speech. 21 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: In fairness I think to try to combat some home grown radicalization, but it was ill conceived. The backlash to it has probably done more harm than good. Any press is good press? It's certainly brought more attention to it, and highlighted the people who are ready to think anything mentioning Islam is somehow an affront to their way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 49 minutes ago, Fateless said: Because Islam has been by far the largest target of hate and fear-mongering over the last decade and giving a nod to the people groups that are suffering from that is very common in legislation. With that said, its irrelevant whether Islam was specifically mentioned or not. It is afforded the exact same protection as other religions and races (none, because this isn't a law). 31 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: In 2013 total number of religion based hate crimes stood at 326. According to the stats 58% of those occurred against the Jews, also Muslims outnumber Jews 3:1 in Canada. Jews were most targeted in Toronto in 2015, according to the police. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2015001/article/14191-eng.htm https://www.torontopolice.on.ca/publications/files/reports/2015hatecrimereport.pdf 45 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2402644 http://www.dailywire.com/news/12386/report-christianity-most-persecuted-religion-amanda-prestigiacomo Ya give us more reasons why we are wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, elvis15 said: Wait, so you're Heretic? Dual accounts? Not sure how else you'd be first when the very first word in the OP was 'Motion'. Sure, some misunderstand that and think it's a law, but some misunderstand Islam being the only religion mentioned as meaning that gives them different rights, invites Sharia Law, or somehow it's an infringement on free speech. Any press is good press? It's certainly brought more attention to it, and highlighted the people who are ready to think anything mentioning Islam is somehow an affront to their way of life. It only mentions Islam by name. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: It only mentions Islam by name. Why? You may want to go back a few posts and read. I mean my explanation was literally several posts before, and even was in direct reply to the CBH1926 post you mentioned just prior. Or you can choose to ignore them, but then that's a pretty crappy discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fateless Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: It only mentions Islam by name. Why? Both Elvis and I answered that at length literally on this page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 13 minutes ago, Fateless said: Why? Its addressing a big issue which is a lot of people are scared of Muslims and are lashing out at them. The motion was only drafted as a symbolic gesture to show Canada's support for the Muslim community while acknowledging that it supports all other religions equally and will treat Islam the same. The Muslim community has been singled out since 9/11. This motion simply said that like all other religions, no hate towards Islam will be tolerated in Canada. And guess what. That's nothing new. Its been illegal to target Muslims due to their religion for decades. This motion added nothing new to Canada and everyone is blowing it out of proportion. The countless terrorist attacks in the name of allah all over the World might be another reason people are looking at muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Just now, Fateless said: Both Elvis and I answered that at length literally on this page. I think that answer is nonsense. You are making inaccurate statements and statscan backs that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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