clam linguine Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 42 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Clark promising a debt free BC for our kids...is it a load ? Why yes, yes it is http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-liberals-promise-to-not-leave-debt-for-our-kids-is-misleading-1.4083312 At nearly every campaign stop, B.C. Liberal Leader Christy Clark tells her supporters her government will "make sure we don't leave our children with a debt." But a CBC Fact Check shows that, according to economists, Clark's comments are misleading. "Even if we are as charitable as possible to the underlying assumption the premier is making, it is untrue," said Rob Gillezeau, associate professor of economics at the University of Victoria. "The province has debt on the books. The fiscal plan has debt accumulation on the books, so there is no way that statement is going to be true," said Gillezeau. B.C.'s overall provincial debt is forecast to hit $47 billion by 2020, according to public accounts. There's another $30 billion in debt when you count Crown corporations such as BC Hydro, and TI Corp. — what is known as self-supporting debt because they generate their own revenue. But that is not the debt Clark is talking about. "It's obviously debt that the public will face regardless. Whether it's directly under a corporation, it doesn't really matter for purposes of whether the public has debt. It's sheltered under a Crown corporation," said Gillezeau, B.C.'s overall "high debt burden" and BC Hydro's growing liabilities prompted a warning of a possible downgrade by Moody's credit analysts in January. "The anticipated increase in debt continues to pressure the province's rating, since it raises the contingent liability of British Columbia," said the report, which ultimately upheld the provinces AAA rating. That rating affects how many tax dollars go to servicing the debt. B.C.'s debt-to-GDP ratio, which measures the province's ability to pay its debts, is expected to stay relatively constant at 16 per cent, which is better than most provinces, according to a Royal Bank analysis. Libs to pay 'operational debt' only The B.C. Liberals' platform says they are only promising to pay off operating debt, a detail Clark often leaves out. That is the day to day costs of running hospitals, schools, and government services. Even with operating debt paid, B.C.'s overall debt is forecast to balloon to $77.6 billion by 2020. "We're thinking about the future, putting money aside for our children in a savings account, making the electricity supply our kids will need, building the infrastructure our kids will need, paying off the debt, so they don't have to, said Clark in defence of Site C on April 19. "She should say operating debt. It is incorrect to say there will be no debt. They are actually adding debt year after year. .. we're still going to have to pay that off, said Lindsay Tedds, associate professor, School of Public Administration, University of Victoria. "The Liberals are totally spinning this one." Tedds said the NDP is also promising to pay of the operating debt and Clark should specify she's not talking about overall debt every time she brings up the softened version of her old 2013 campaign slogan: "Debt Free B.C." Grandchildren will pay Site C debt BC Hydro is also expected to spend another $20 billion on infrastructure, adding to the provincial debt and has told the B.C. Utilities Commission it will take 70 years to pay off Site C, starting when it's built in 2024. "It goes beyond our kids," said Tedds, pointing out that voters' children, grandchildren and even great-grandchildren could be paying for the taxpayer-funded project until 2094. TI Corp, the Crown corporation created to build the $3.4-billion Port Mann Bridge and highway expansion, will also be borrowing to build a $3.5-billion bridge to replace the Massey Tunnel. All that, plus BC Hydro's growing debt, could see the province carrying an estimated $97 billion in debt. "This is debt for my kids and it is debt for her kids. That is debt that has to be paid off by future taxpayers," said Tedds "Maybe there is an aspirational goal they are shooting for in the long run, but when Christy Clark is finished being premier, British Columbia will have debt," said Gillezeau. =============================================================================== One of the most remarkable things is when you dig in to things, people on the Liberal side of the fence in Bc continue to claim the NDP borrow and increase taxes or fees and plunge BC in to debt. Except, when you look at the story and many just like it. For almost 20 years, the BC liberals have increased taxes, fees and borrowed heavily to build projects while increasing our debt to unheard of levels. Typically lame CBC (NDP) horsebleep. BC maintains a AAA credit rating. Outstanding. This must be the best of any province? Alberta was up there, but no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 18 minutes ago, clam linguine said: Typically lame CBC (NDP) horsebleep. BC maintains a AAA credit rating. Outstanding. This must be the best of any province? Alberta was up there, but no more. Call it fake news already pud. Pretend it's not an issue go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 On April 22, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Heretic said: nice graphic. but the choice for many isn't NDP vs corruption, its incompetence vs Liberal or Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: nice graphic. but the choice for many isn't NDP vs corruption, its incompetence vs Liberal or Green. Incompetence vs corruption and liars vs irrelevant. FTFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 36 minutes ago, clam linguine said: Typically lame CBC (NDP) horsebleep. BC maintains a AAA credit rating. Outstanding. This must be the best of any province? Alberta was up there, but no more. you also never hear about the opportunity cost of not investing in infrastructure. The fact - yes Hip its a fact - BC's economy is and has done very well under the Libs. No one but the NDP base thinks otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 Just now, Warhippy said: Incompetence vs corruption and liars vs irrelevant. FTFY so... corruption is accepting millions from companies in donations (only about 150k of which had to be returned), but the NDP taking 6 million from unions is... what? Oh that turd is allowed to be polished cuz itz for a peeple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: you also never hear about the opportunity cost of not investing in infrastructure. The fact - yes Hip its a fact - BC's economy is and has done very well under the Libs. No one but the NDP base thinks otherwise. I refuse to keep repeating myself because you refuse to listen But when an economy is literally ready to crumble with 1 single knock to the housing market over a sustained period of time. It is not a viable economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: so... corruption is accepting millions from companies in donations (only about 150k of which had to be returned), but the NDP taking 6 million from unions is... what? Oh that turd is allowed to be polished cuz itz for a peeple BC Rail Hospital scam Campbells drunk driving Triple delete Pay to Play Mt Polley donations Double Dipping The list goes on and on. The very fact you refuse to accept that the Liberal party is guilty of some seriously shady actions while in office shows that you're literally not willing or unable to have a proper conversation about it. Also, that "donation" to the NDP was made int he exact same manner as the donations to the Liberal party. So if you've issue with the NDP taking money than.....why the double standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Warhippy said: I refuse to keep repeating myself because you refuse to listen But when an economy is literally ready to crumble with 1 single knock to the housing market over a sustained period of time. It is not a viable economy. no i listen, I just think you've got it wrong and really cherry pick certain aspects. If you look at the overall picture and actually read expert reviews on the entire country that place BC at the top you'd see what i mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Just now, S'all Good Man said: no i listen, I just think you've got it wrong and really cherry pick certain aspects. If you look at the overall picture and actually read expert reviews on the entire country that place BC at the top you'd see what i mean. Uh huh. I posted endless facts, you claim it is cherry picking. Agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, Warhippy said: BC Rail Hospital scam Campbells drunk driving Triple delete Pay to Play Mt Polley donations Double Dipping The list goes on and on. The very fact you refuse to accept that the Liberal party is guilty of some seriously shady actions while in office shows that you're literally not willing or unable to have a proper conversation about it. Also, that "donation" to the NDP was made int he exact same manner as the donations to the Liberal party. So if you've issue with the NDP taking money than.....why the double standard? BC Rail.... BC Ferries what hospital scam? Who cares about Campbell now? Pay to play? Its equal footing for the NDP and the unions so stop that too. Double dipping? like bingo-gate? I don't know about the Polley ref- whats that? I know the Libs have done some shady things, but it doesn't outweigh putting in an imo incompetent NDP group. I am warming to JRs guy tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Warhippy said: Uh huh. I posted endless facts, you claim it is cherry picking. Agree to disagree. go find me a national review of provincial economies that puts BC at the bottom. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: no i listen, I just think you've got it wrong and really cherry pick certain aspects. If you look at the overall picture and actually read expert reviews on the entire country that place BC at the top you'd see what i mean. All you can do is cherry pick if you're Defending the B.C liberals. If the economy is so great how come B.C is 4th among wage earners in Canada with the highest cost of living? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 minute ago, S'all Good Man said: BC Rail.... BC Ferries (you mean the ferries that worked the moment they were retrofitted with the galvanized intakes like was suggested but were sold for pennies on the dollar because the Libs refused to accept that they worked and now make solid money for the business man who bought them? Or do you mean the BC ferries promise the Libs have given us the last 10 years yet failed to deliver on?) what hospital scam? (You mean you conveniently forget the person who committed suicide over an issue Clark knowingly lied about? Or the Burnaby hospital issue) Who cares about Campbell now? (anyone still suffering under the debt he saddled this province with of course.) Pay to play? Its equal footing for the NDP and the unions so stop that too. (Sorry, but remind me how the NDP have any power in BC right now with a Liberal majority?) Double dipping? like bingo-gate? (You mean that thing Clark was accused of, honorably stepped down over and was completely cleared of?) I know the Libs have done some shady things, but it doesn't outweigh putting in an imo incompetent NDP group. I am warming to JRs guy tho. So wait a second here. You KNOW they've done things, refuse to accept them and instead simply claim the alternative is incompetent without current proof, just opinion; and instead are warming to Weaver... Well then. Carry on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: All you can do is cherry pick if you're Defending the B.C liberals. If the economy is so great how come B.C is 4th among wage earners in Canada with the highest cost of living? Sir, That is highest cost of living, one of the highest rates of child poverty, some of the highest per capita debt levels, one of the highest per capita provincial debt, and some of the lowest quality jobs without benefits in the country. Just thought I'd add on for ya man. Not that facts mean anything in this day and age to either side as we instead simply turn a blind eye and then say something like "incompetent" or MSM or cherry picked stats or fake news to justify our own inability to accept we might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 Just now, Warhippy said: So wait a second here. You KNOW they've done things, refuse to accept them and instead simply claim the alternative is incompetent without current proof, just opinion; and instead are warming to Weaver... Well then. Carry on yup. with the caveat that its not a refusal to "accept" those things, its a recognition that all parties do dumb things, we can go over the NDP history if you like. The NDP always tries to play the holier-than-thou card but its BS and you know it. I base my opinion on real life experience, living in 3 provinces that had NDP at the helm, and the fact that they never bring in good economic teams. And please don't quote "balanced budgets" as the prime example of good management thats only 1 piece and you know it, that's the cherry picking part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Sir, That is highest cost of living, one of the highest rates of child poverty, some of the highest per capita debt levels, one of the highest per capita provincial debt, and some of the lowest quality jobs without benefits in the country. Just thought I'd add on for ya man. Not that facts mean anything in this day and age to either side as we instead simply turn a blind eye and then say something like "incompetent" or MSM or cherry picked stats or fake news to justify our own inability to accept we might be wrong. I meant to add the child poverty. The economy isn't good if 75% of B.Cers are living pay day to pay day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Just now, Ryan Strome said: I meant to add the child poverty. The economy isn't good if 75% of B.Cers are living pay day to pay day. People seem to think otherwise though. it's a big part of the reason I've hedged my bets federally as well. Since 2009 we've been told it looks good, but since 2009 personal levels of debt and cost of living country wide have been sky rocketing. That is not a good pairing and not indicative of a healthy economy. Imagine if interest rates rise .5 percent in the next 6 months... My family has very little debt really, and enough cash in saving to pay it all off. But .5% is apparently enough to sink almost 100k or more Canadians. That is not even homeowners, that is just personal bankruptcies by the reported numbers. That's frightening. We all know people living well beyond their means on credit. Multiple trips out of country, online shopping, fancy trailers to pull their fancy ATVS and Snowmobiles. A new car lease every 2 years. Man...I don't know how people do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Sir, That is highest cost of living, one of the highest rates of child poverty, some of the highest per capita debt levels, one of the highest per capita provincial debt, and some of the lowest quality jobs without benefits in the country. Just thought I'd add on for ya man. Not that facts mean anything in this day and age to either side as we instead simply turn a blind eye and then say something like "incompetent" or MSM or cherry picked stats or fake news to justify our own inability to accept we might be wrong. cost of living - whats the NDP solution there Hip? more corp taxes? that never has the desired effect child poverty - when you look outside of First Nations kids we're the same as every other province. this is also a federal issue with chronic under funding of First Nations kids (which I do think needs far better programs btw): http://homelesshub.ca/gallery/bad-worse-child-poverty-rates-canada . And please don't misunderstand me, I hate what's going on with First Nations kids and think it needs way more $$ and proper attention. Debt - again. look at the key markers like debt-gdp and independent credit ratings Job quality - again, its changing with 2-3% growth in diversified manufacturing. it takes a decades to turn that ship but its happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo053 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 wonder how many riots there will be from lefties when the NDP don't win, seems to be their go-to move now. agree with us or we'll break stuff and hurt people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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