Provincial Election Thread

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, Bo053 said:

wonder how many riots there will be from lefties when the NDP don't win, seems to be their go-to move now.

agree with us or we'll break stuff and hurt people.

hard to say... there's no hate quite like NDP hate of Clark so it could get ugly... but we're a long way from that. The NDP could pull it off, a 5th term is very hard to get for any gov't. 

[Kragar]

17 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

People seem to think otherwise though.  it's a big part of the reason I've hedged my bets federally as well.  Since 2009 we've been told it looks good, but since 2009 personal levels of debt and cost of living country wide have been sky rocketing.  That is not a good pairing and not indicative of a healthy economy.  Imagine if interest rates rise .5 percent in the next 6 months...

 

My family has very little debt really, and enough cash in saving to pay it all off.  But .5% is apparently enough to sink almost 100k or more Canadians.  That is not even homeowners, that is just personal bankruptcies by the reported numbers.

 

That's frightening.  We all know people living well beyond their means on credit.  Multiple trips out of country, online shopping, fancy trailers to pull their fancy ATVS and Snowmobiles.  A new car lease every 2 years.

 

Man...I don't know how people do it

 

On the personal debt issue, Dave Ramsay has the answer.  Dunno if you get to hear much of him up in Canada, but his underlying concepts are not US-law specific, and is something everyone should hear.  Downside for me: he is a Christian, and it's part of his financial teaching, but I have no trouble filtering it out and focus on the important (IMO) stuff.

 

Regarding debt, the short of it is all common sense: start off by saving a little for rainy days, then get rid of all non-mortgage debt, get rid of all credit cards, then save enough for a lot of rainy days.  Work on a budget.  No leases, no new cars, don't buy anything you haven't saved up for.  Lots of "suffering" involved in those years, but when you are out of debt, and not taking any on, your life changes dramatically.  There's more to his plan (home buying, retirement, etc.) but no need to go into it here.

 

Some people think that having a car payment is just a normal part of life.  Investing that car payment instead can be the difference of retiring 10+ years earlier.  

[Bo053]

8 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

hard to say... there's no hate quite like NDP hate of Clark so it could get ugly... but we're a long way from that. The NDP could pull it off, a 5th term is very hard to get for any gov't. 

Latest I heard is the NDP was up 10 points, but they were supposed to win last time too and got destroyed so who knows.

[Warhippy]

22 minutes ago, Bo053 said:

wonder how many riots there will be from Canucks fans when the Canucks  don't win, seems to be their go-to move now.

agree with us or we'll break stuff and hurt people.

Hmmm...FTFY

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Bo053 said:

Latest I heard is the NDP was up 10 points, but they were supposed to win last time too and got destroyed so who knows.

i think its going to come down to the wire. One saving thing imo is Horgan really doesn't come across as a bright man so maybe that will limit the damage  

 

“Even though the lead for the NDP has increased, we still see the Liberals (strong) in the rest of B.C., and we still know that among South Asians and among the Chinese population it breaks much more towards B.C. Liberals on economic policy. So we can’t discount those things, even with that size of the lead at this point,” Maggi said in a telephone interview.

“This one is going to be tough to call right to the end … It seems to be a see-saw battle.”

 

http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/b-c-election-2017-ndp-jumps-to-double-digit-lead-on-lower-mainland-surge-two-weeks-before-voting-day

[Warhippy]

9 minutes ago, Kragar said:

On the personal debt issue, Dave Ramsay has the answer.  Dunno if you get to hear much of him up in Canada, but his underlying concepts are not US-law specific, and is something everyone should hear.  Downside for me: he is a Christian, and it's part of his financial teaching, but I have no trouble filtering it out and focus on the important (IMO) stuff.

 

Regarding debt, the short of it is all common sense: start off by saving a little for rainy days, then get rid of all non-mortgage debt, get rid of all credit cards, then save enough for a lot of rainy days.  Work on a budget.  No leases, no new cars, don't buy anything you haven't saved up for.  Lots of "suffering" involved in those years, but when you are out of debt, and not taking any on, your life changes dramatically.  There's more to his plan (home buying, retirement, etc.) but no need to go into it here.

 

Some people think that having a car payment is just a normal part of life.  Investing that car payment instead can be the difference of retiring 10+ years earlier.  

After my accident and our 2nd kid, I wasn't making anything but our bills didn't magically stop.  We ended up eating in to our savings and taking on debt

 

At our peak we were debt servicing due to car, her student loan, credit card line of credit etc to the tune of $1278 a month.

 

We are now down to under $700 a month and free falling because I loathe owing money to anyone.  I was making almost $130k a year before I got hurt so servicing that and paying regular monthly expenses wasnt an issue.  After I got hurt and was on the pittance I was eligible for from WCB and disability I couldn't frigging believe the hurdles we jumped week to week just to pay bills and fend of creditors.

 

She was in school I was on my 2nd major surgery.  almost 0 income coming in.  This is how a lot of people in BC are living right now and we keep hearing how great things are.  It's ridiculous.  Most people don't have the ability to pay down their debt, they stay afloat barely.  I started a business the second I could just to avoid this.

 

It's frightening how so many people can blindly eat things up when they are spoon fed crap just because they refuse to accept an alternative that might go against their beliefs or because it might hurt in the interim.

[Kragar]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

After my accident and our 2nd kid, I wasn't making anything but our bills didn't magically stop.  We ended up eating in to our savings and taking on debt

 

At our peak we were debt servicing due to car, her student loan, credit card line of credit etc to the tune of $1278 a month.

 

We are now down to under $700 a month and free falling because I loathe owing money to anyone.  I was making almost $130k a year before I got hurt so servicing that and paying regular monthly expenses wasnt an issue.  After I got hurt and was on the pittance I was eligible for from WCB and disability I couldn't frigging believe the hurdles we jumped week to week just to pay bills and fend of creditors.

 

She was in school I was on my 2nd major surgery.  almost 0 income coming in.  This is how a lot of people in BC are living right now and we keep hearing how great things are.  It's ridiculous.  Most people don't have the ability to pay down their debt, they stay afloat barely.  I started a business the second I could just to avoid this.

 

It's frightening how so many people can blindly eat things up when they are spoon fed crap just because they refuse to accept an alternative that might go against their beliefs or because it might hurt in the interim.

Damn... good luck, sir.  Lots on that plate, for sure.

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Damn... good luck, sir.  Lots on that plate, for sure.

It's all time.  For me the worst part is seeing my 2 daughters miss out on expensive extra curricular activities.  We do swimming lessons etc, but things like dance, gymnastics etc that cost hundred(s) per month for travel outfits and more are out of it for at least another 14 months.

 

We look at it as though

Car payment

Student Loan

Credit

Line of Credit

Business Credit

 

Those are our big debt issues ATM.  We've almost $100k saved for a home purchase and for every one of those we cross off is another $125 to $340 a month back in our pockets.  14 more months of suffering and we're golden

 

The rest of the country by and large by the numbers isn't so lucky.  Amazingly, if I can suffer not investing back in to my business for 8 months we can basically nix half of that 4 months earlier.  It's all about living within your means.  Not wracking up debt and claiming you don't have any.  Much like this government has done for so long.

Avoiding bills is not paying off debt or bills.  It is kicking the can down the road for another person to deal with

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

It's all time.  For me the worst part is seeing my 2 daughters miss out on expensive extra curricular activities.  We do swimming lessons etc, but things like dance, gymnastics etc that cost hundred(s) per month for travel outfits and more are out of it for at least another 14 months.

 

We look at it as though

Car payment

Student Loan

Credit

Line of Credit

Business Credit

 

Those are our big debt issues ATM.  We've almost $100k saved for a home purchase and for every one of those we cross off is another $125 to $340 a month back in our pockets.  14 more months of suffering and we're golden

 

The rest of the country by and large by the numbers isn't so lucky.  Amazingly, if I can suffer not investing back in to my business for 8 months we can basically nix half of that 4 months earlier.  It's all about living within your means.  Not wracking up debt and claiming you don't have any.  Much like this government has done for so long.

Avoiding bills is not paying off debt or bills.  It is kicking the can down the road for another person to deal with

 

sorry to hear about the hard time you've had, but what makes you think the NDP aren't going to ring up more debt? If thats a key thing for you I think you're going to be very disappointed. 

 

 

[Kragar]

7 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

It's all time.  For me the worst part is seeing my 2 daughters miss out on expensive extra curricular activities.  We do swimming lessons etc, but things like dance, gymnastics etc that cost hundred(s) per month for travel outfits and more are out of it for at least another 14 months.

 

We look at it as though

Car payment

Student Loan

Credit

Line of Credit

Business Credit

 

Those are our big debt issues ATM.  We've almost $100k saved for a home purchase and for every one of those we cross off is another $125 to $340 a month back in our pockets.  14 more months of suffering and we're golden

 

The rest of the country by and large by the numbers isn't so lucky.  Amazingly, if I can suffer not investing back in to my business for 8 months we can basically nix half of that 4 months earlier.  It's all about living within your means.  Not wracking up debt and claiming you don't have any.  Much like this government has done for so long.

Avoiding bills is not paying off debt or bills.  It is kicking the can down the road for another person to deal with

Not enough plusses for all that truth and wisdom.

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Not enough plusses for all that truth and wisdom.

I grew up dirt poor.  If you didn't have it you earned it.  If you didn't have enough for it you saved.  If you wanted it badly you'd sacrifice or put money down on it and pick it up when you had the rest.  I've a credit card with a $3k limit.  A business card with a $7k limit and a store specific use only, every $5k we knock my wifes card down we set a new limit to it (visa HATES us right now) our kids get $200 a season for clothing or books and most of their clothes we find at parents meet ups and are gently used.

 

It sucks.  Two professionals with degrees//trades should not have to struggle so hard in a province with so much.  But bills do not just go away no matter what gets in the way whether it's life, labour, accidental injury or idiocy.

 

I wish more people would live within their means.  But since they won't

 

I have to hope the feds or province(s) will enact some kind of protectionist legislation to protect our properties, food, farms and businesses from predatory buyers the moment it all tanks.

[Heretic]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

BC Rail

Hospital scam

Campbells drunk driving

Triple delete

Pay to Play

Mt Polley donations

Double Dipping

 

The list goes on and on.  The very fact you refuse to accept that the Liberal party is guilty of some seriously shady actions while in office shows that you're literally not willing or unable to have a proper conversation about it.

 

Also, that "donation" to the NDP was made int he exact same manner as the donations to the Liberal party.  So if you've issue with the NDP taking money than.....why the double standard?

Don't forget how an entire generation of kids went through the depleted and most under funded public school system in the country thanks to Christy "famlies 1st my @ss" Clark .

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Heretic said:

Don't forget how an entire generation of kids went through the depleted and most under funded public school system in the country thanks to Christy "famlies 1st my @ss" Clark .

Hey man stop that

 

It is and always was families first.

 

Just...her family, not yours or mine, hers.  Noted by how the moment she entered her son in to private school that massive amounts of money went from fair public education to private education.  Which...is rather a slap in the face when her sons tuition was $25,000 a year.  

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Kragar said:

Not enough plusses for all that truth and wisdom.

Yes, and a little no. I'm also self-employed but I also carry some income insurance, not a ton but enough to get through a year of hell if something happens. Christy Clark, just like Horgan if he wins, are not responsible for my choices. 

[Kragar]

4 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

Yes, and a little no. I'm also self-employed but I also carry some income insurance, not a ton but enough to get through a year of hell if something happens. Christy Clark, just like Horgan if he wins, are not responsible for my choices. 

I'm not clear what you are disagreeing with.  Whether you save enough to self-insure, or purchase income insurance, I think either are being suitably responsible.  I don't see how the government enters into that scenario.

 

Question, though... how does that last statement stand up against your support for high minimum wage laws?  Seems a little contradictory to me.

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, Kragar said:

I'm not clear what you are disagreeing with.  Whether you save enough to self-insure, or purchase income insurance, I think either are being suitably responsible.  I don't see how the government enters into that scenario.

 

Question, though... how does that last statement stand up against your support for high minimum wage laws?  Seems a little contradictory to me.

what i'm disagreeing with is the idea that the NDP or any gov't for that matter is going to swoop in and make things better for working people or self-employed folks. Maybe marginally, but you are the one with the most control over what happens in your career, unless you're really unlucky. So thats why I'm bringing up the option of getting a little insurance if you are self-employed, hopefully if there's any self-employed people on this site they'll have a look at that option. No matter what gov't is in power, ICBC, WorkSafe, etc  is going to leave you wanting.

 

I support a much higher minimum wage for a bunch of reasons, it would be the single biggest thing to lift people out of poverty, it is based on real work done so the GDP gets a boost, more people pay taxes and you don't incentivize people to stay home, and people with part time jobs can actually make a real living. Not sure how thats contradictory to suggesting self-employed people get a bit of income insurance. Manulife has a great plan. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kragar]

1 minute ago, S'all Good Man said:

what i'm disagreeing with is the idea that the NDP or any gov't for that matter is going to swoop in and make things better for working people or self-employed folks. Maybe marginally, but you are the one with the most control over what happens in your career, unless you're really unlucky. So thats why I'm bringing up the option of getting a little insurance if you are self-employed, hopefully if there's any self-employed people on this site they'll have a look at that option. No matter what gov't is in power, ICBC, WorkSafe, etc  is going to leave you wanting.

 

I support a much higher minimum wage for a bunch of reasons, it would be the single biggest thing to lift people out of poverty, it is based on real work done so the GDP gets a boost, more people pay taxes and you don't incentivize people to stay home. Not sure how thats contradictory to suggesting self-empliyed people get a bit of income insurance. Manulife has a great plan. 

Agree 100% on the first paragraph.

 

For the second, the contradiction in no way refers to insurance, and you did well to protect yourself that way.  The contradiction does refer to government being responsible for your choices and yet people depending on government to raise wages on low-skilled jobs that they decided to try to live off of.  Higher wages are great.  Government imposing it on business for arbitrary reasons is not.  Arguably, it is better to welfare/guaranteed basic income, and maybe that was your point to much of your 2nd paragraph, but that wasn't my point.  I just believe minimum wage hikes are wrong in their own regard, and would prefer to see proper market forces at work.

 

To be fair, I also believe proper market forces need to be at work in the other direction too, and get government out of the business of favoring certain corporations as well.

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Agree 100% on the first paragraph.

 

For the second, the contradiction in no way refers to insurance, and you did well to protect yourself that way.  The contradiction does refer to government being responsible for your choices and yet people depending on government to raise wages on low-skilled jobs that they decided to try to live off of.  Higher wages are great.  Government imposing it on business for arbitrary reasons is not.  Arguably, it is better to welfare/guaranteed basic income, and maybe that was your point to much of your 2nd paragraph, but that wasn't my point.  I just believe minimum wage hikes are wrong in their own regard, and would prefer to see proper market forces at work.

 

To be fair, I also believe proper market forces need to be at work in the other direction too, and get government out of the business of favoring certain corporations as well.

At some point though to have a stable society like ours you have to have a safety net, and wage standards are part of that imo. The thing with wages is they get back into the economy in better ways than welfare payments, thats really the difference for me. One raises up GDP and pays taxes the other doesn't and isn't incentivized to work.

[Kragar]

1 minute ago, S'all Good Man said:

At some point though to have a stable society like ours you have to have a safety net, and wage standards are part of that imo. The thing with wages is they get back into the economy in better ways than welfare payments, thats really the difference for me. One raises up GDP and pays taxes the other doesn't and isn't incentivized to work.

Wages are clearly better than welfare payments, I agree with you there.  I just don't believe that the GDP improves much, if at all as a result, due to business failing that cannot handle the added load. So many in favor of high min wages think it's just the big bad corps out there and they can handle the costs, but that is not the case, especially in Canada.  A large majority of people in Canada work for small businesses, and it is harder for them to handle big wage hikes.  As a result, those businesses either fold, raise prices (and risk losing business), cut back on hiring or hours, or automate where they can.  Those last two are particularly bad for the min wage worker, and the raised prices aren't good for them either.

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Wages are clearly better than welfare payments, I agree with you there.  I just don't believe that the GDP improves much, if at all as a result, due to business failing that cannot handle the added load. So many in favor of high min wages think it's just the big bad corps out there and they can handle the costs, but that is not the case, especially in Canada.  A large majority of people in Canada work for small businesses, and it is harder for them to handle big wage hikes.  As a result, those businesses either fold, raise prices (and risk losing business), cut back on hiring or hours, or automate where they can.  Those last two are particularly bad for the min wage worker, and the raised prices aren't good for them either.

well, the NDP has put out positions wanting to force companies of any size to have to join a union, so imagine that joy for small companies vs. a higher minimum. 

 

The Aussies seem to be doing fine with the $17-18 wage, and I just think creating the societal benefit that way via work is better overall than Mulcair writing a cheque. Pick your poison.