Provincial Election Thread

[mpt]

1 hour ago, Heretic said:

A liberal minority is a pretty ineffective government, so this picture really means nothing.

[kingofsurrey]

I like a

[kingofsurrey]

Who to vote for is the question ????

 

It will be a tough election for voters. I wonder if it will be a record set for voters that prefer to spoil their votes....

 

There must be a better way forward than the choices we have in this election...

 

 

[KoreanHockeyFan]

21 hours ago, Heretic said:

What if you're happy with a Liberal minority?

[Heretic]

29 minutes ago, KoreanHockeyFan said:

What if you're happy with a Liberal minority?

[aGENT]

On 22/04/2017 at 7:50 PM, Heretic said:

I agree. Anyone that doesn't want the Liberals should just vote Green.

[Heretic]

Here's someone's opinion on Clark and the Liberal party.

 

 

 

http://ipolitics.ca/2017/04/20/b-c-belongs-to-resource-companies-clarks-just-the-paid-caretaker/

 

B.C. belongs to resource companies. Clark's just the paid caretaker.

 

Unless Christy Clark’s bulldozer hits a ditch, the Liberal party’s power in British Columbia will probably grow. Just like the provincial debt, the horrid finances of BC Hydro and the evolution of Vancouver into a vast private club for the super-rich.

All this is supported by the nonsense view that Christy posing beside hulking dump trucks once every few years vanquishes all — including any zany notion of standing up for the environment. Even from a distance, surveying B.C. politics is like watching a python swallow a peacock.

What has politics become in British Columbia — and just about everywhere else in western democracies these days? A series of lies usually presented as a ‘plan’. The plan always includes tax cuts, expressions of ‘respect’ for taxpayers’ money, smaller government and vows to return power to the people. This is called ‘vision’ in countries preoccupied by the Shopping Channel. Behind it all? Redistributing public wealth to “them that brung ya to the dance.”

Since election periods are so painfully short for the most part, the bull$&!#ting and obfuscation usually can be pulled off before the fact-checkers swoop in and do any real damage. In the post-truth world of contemporary politics, it’s debatable whether the facts matter any more. As both Trump and Trudeau seem to have realized, politics is more pop-culture than policy these days.

It doesn’t matter which ocean your navy is actually in; the public is always at sea. Nor is there anything wrong with congratulating a newly minted dictator, as Trump did this week with Turkey’s tyrant. It’s all about membership in the club.

After the phoney sales pitch, all that’s left is the demonization of the opponent. In B.C., big money helps turn real people who care about real issues like the environment into “militant climate crusaders”. It goes without saying (we’re told) that the sole purpose of these tree-huggers is to make sure no one in the province ever works in the resource industry again. If you criticize the one per cent who crack the whip over the rest of us too vigorously, you are diagnosed as suffering from Clark (or Harper, or Trump) Derangement Syndrome. Tweets have turned our brains into bumper-sticker processors.

No wonder Christy Clark didn’t take Richard Branson up on his offer to ride naked on his back while kitesurfing. All she really needs is that painted-on smile and a hard hat to persuade British Columbians that they are just one mega-project away from Nirvana — whether that means bringing war to the Peace River Valley or blowing out a salmon nursery off Lelu Island.

B.C. under Christy Clark and the Liberals is run like a crooked casino. Money seeps from the pores of the corporate kleptocracy and flows uphill, downhill and in through the back door — all to the Liberal Party.

The Liberals just had to pay back $174,000 in illegal donations. Even a charity tried to get in on greasing the Grits. Clark also had to give up thousands of dollars her own party gave her to “top up” her salary as premier. A mere $195,000 a year wasn’t apparently enough for her. (Guess where that extra fifty grand came from? Hint: it wasn’t the tooth fairy.)

In B.C., it comes down to cold, hard cash — lots of it. There are virtually no financial limits on political donations and seemingly no limit on out-bound government contracts in B.C. — the eternal quid pro quo of a profession where money is mother’s milk.

Mining companies send so many donations Clarkward that it’s hardly a surprise that no one has even been fined over the disastrous Mount Polley spill, let alone charged. You remember that one: Millions of metric tonnes of toxic mine tailings flowing into the pristine, rainbow trout-sustaining waters of Quesnel Lake — which also happens to be the water supply for the residents of Likely, B.C.

Just before the writ dropped for the May 9, 2017 election, the Clark government gave Mount Polley Mining Corporation, owned by Imperial Metals, the green light to re-pollute Lake Quesnel with 24 million cubic metres of “treated” mining waste from the Mount Polley spill. Murray Edwards, the billionaire owner of Imperial Metals, provided the hospitality on his yacht for Rona Ambrose’s January 3-14 Caribbean holiday off St. Barthes.

In B.C., it comes down to cold, hard cash — lots of it. There are virtually no financial limits on political donations and seemingly no limit on out-bound government contracts in B.C. — the eternal quid pro quo of a profession where money is mother’s milk. It’s done in Newfoundland, Quebec, Ontario, Saskatchewan and even in Ottawa by the Sunny Ways guys.

But BC’s pay-as-you-play system is surely the height of chutzpah. The New York Times was so appalled by the naked power of money in Clarkland, it depicted a place not normally on its radar as rollickingly corrupt — a kind of Somalia on Canada’s west coast. (For the record, Somalia has owned the distinction of being the world’s most corrupt country for ten years running, according to the Corruption Perceptions Index.)

Clark’s corporate cave-ins have not been without consequences that might still come back to haunt her in this election. The B.C. Supreme Court is looking into her dodgy ethics in taking money from companies with vested interests in provincial government assessments, like the Trans-Mountain pipeline project already approved by Justin Trudeau. Advocacy groups believe Clark’s green light for Trans Mountain was influenced by hefty political donations to the Liberal party by companies like U.S.-based Kinder Morgan. According to The Tyee, that could decide the issue against the government in four Burrard Inlet ridings.

And then there is the mounting toll Clark’s high-roller policies have taken on ordinary people, particularly in BC’s largest city. I asked Vancouver resident and writer DG Thiel why she thought Christy Clark should undergo a career path change:

“There’s a forced migration going on in B.C. A government-led resettlement. As I look out onto English Bay on a clear spring morning I count the tankers at the mouth of False Creek Inlet, sitting like birds of prey. They will soon outnumber the blue heron who nest in the trees at the entrance of Stanley Park. I’ve lost my home to them.

“I feel disquieted by a growing rage that spills out of memories — as black and thick as the oil-soaked sea birds in my hands two short years ago. No official count was made of the dead that littered the rocks of our beaches — 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Jericho, Kits, Locarno and Spanish Banks. There was no funeral for them. I feel the pain of being unable to save them and the sorrow that comes from resignation.

“I’ve marched, I’ve shouted with tens of thousands railing together against the destruction of our land, our water, our air. I’ve stood on the picket lines at Burnaby Mountain in peaceful, tearful protest. I’ve called my MP demanding action.

“I can’t protect them, so I’m leaving. I have to save myself and my family. My bags will soon be packed. I will trudge alongside countless thousands of other British Columbians who’ve turned their back on this town because they can’t buy a condo, or rent a flat, in this city of construction cranes. They’ve lost their homes too.

“In the end, none of it mattered. We were all CCed. Carbon copied after the fact by Christy Clark. Our voices have not been heard. Our tears have not mattered. We are no longer stewards of our land. Our province is being shaped by multinationals and developers. Clark’s posse.”

Someone might be able to say it better. Frankly, I don’t know how.

 

[Heretic]

32 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I agree. Anyone that doesn't want the Liberals should just vote Green.

My only concern about the Greens is how many are "paper" candidates.

 

Example:

 

"

Greens' Barthel a 'paper candidate' in Port Moody-Coquitlam for B.C. election

Green candidate said on Facebook that he is "just a 'paper candidate'" and was "not expected to actively campaign.""

 

http://www.tricitynews.com/news/greens-barthel-a-paper-candidate-in-port-moody-coquitlam-for-b-c-election-1.13493094

 

[Ryan Strome]

1 hour ago, Heretic said:

My only concern about the Greens is how many are "paper" candidates.

 

Example:

 

"

Greens' Barthel a 'paper candidate' in Port Moody-Coquitlam for B.C. election

Green candidate said on Facebook that he is "just a 'paper candidate'" and was "not expected to actively campaign.""

 

http://www.tricitynews.com/news/greens-barthel-a-paper-candidate-in-port-moody-coquitlam-for-b-c-election-1.13493094

 

Same thing as the ndp in Alberta and wouldn't you know they won a protest vote.

 

 

[Ryan Strome]

In all honesty I can't see the greens doing any worse than those two ridiculous parties, ndp and B.C liberals.

 

 

[Sapper]

Now more than ever I am convinced that BC Liberal supporters are beyond a special kinda of stupid. Christy Clark on the news tonight was going after the NDP for their commitment to eliminate the MSP plans that the BC Liberals have doubled... and how they were going to pay for it.

 

Now hold on a minute lol - the Liberals heading into the election said the same thing. You have to be a special kinda of stupid to support them at this point. Christy is not coming clean with how they plan to pay for it. All of her attack adds are about her own party yet she knows that BC Liberal supporters are dumb enough to keep buying the nonsense.  An intelligent person would have recognized that when the right wing media calls you out - its probably time to stop the nonsense http://theprovince.com/opinion/columnists/mike-smyth-in-response-to-ndps-deceit-liberal-minister-spouts-alternative-facts

 

But knowing that her support base is a special kind of stupid she doubled down again with the same line...... Hopefully enough BC Liberal supporters wake up and understand how badly they have been misled and vote for change.....

[Ryan Strome]

13 minutes ago, iwtl said:

Now more than ever I am convinced that BC Liberal supporters are beyond a special kinda of stupid. Christy Clark on the news tonight was going after the NDP for their commitment to eliminate the MSP plans that the BC Liberals have doubled... and how they were going to pay for it.

 

Now hold on a minute lol - the Liberals heading into the election said the same thing. You have to be a special kinda of stupid to support them at this point. Christy is not coming clean with how they plan to pay for it. All of her attack adds are about her own party yet she knows that BC Liberal supporters are dumb enough to keep buying the nonsense.  An intelligent person would have recognized that when the right wing media calls you out - its probably time to stop the nonsense http://theprovince.com/opinion/columnists/mike-smyth-in-response-to-ndps-deceit-liberal-minister-spouts-alternative-facts

 

But knowing that her support base is a special kind of stupid she doubled down again with the same line...... Hopefully enough BC Liberal supporters wake up and understand how badly they have been misled and vote for change.....

Great argument. Calling people stupid. Well done.

[Sapper]

6 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Great argument. Calling people stupid. Well done.

What would you call them?  read the article and watch global news tonight. Christy is doubling down on the attack over MSP premiums despite being called out for using alternate facts and hiding from coming clean herself on the MSP issue. When the NDP does stupid things I am more than happy to call them stupid - being stupid is not something that only impacts specific political parties. In this case - at this time - the example fits. A true leader would own their mistake and misinformation and move on. By doubling down and not having her supports push back ... well what would you call those supporting this?

[prix57]

Don't recall is this was already mentioned by anyone notice how ex news anchors, reporters, etc tend to always run for BC Liberals?  So far I have seen Steve Darling and Jas Johal.  I also hear that Bill Good is also a hard core BC Liberals supporter, how long till he decides to seek office.

[Rush17]

On 19/04/2017 at 0:41 PM, apollo said:

First and foremost, I want change and end to Clark era. 

 

I definitely side with Green, however I'm worried a vote for the Greens means Liberals win again. So I may end up voting NDP. 

I'm likely voting Green.  yeah we should always vote for what we truly want.  don't worry about other people's vote.  you get yours. use it as it feels.  one vote rarely ever makes or breaks an election.   but collectively those one votes determine the outcome. 

 

my 3 biggest areas of concern are:  health care (wait times are broken), housing prices, and a higher minimal wage. (cost of living is outrageous).

 

either someone fixes 2 and 3 or I may be forced to leave the province.   hopefully we get some change.  I'm Considering NFP but I need to really look at their platforms in more depth and get a feel for the individuals running. 

[aGENT]

11 hours ago, Heretic said:

My only concern about the Greens is how many are "paper" candidates.

 

Example:

 

"

Greens' Barthel a 'paper candidate' in Port Moody-Coquitlam for B.C. election

Green candidate said on Facebook that he is "just a 'paper candidate'" and was "not expected to actively campaign.""

 

http://www.tricitynews.com/news/greens-barthel-a-paper-candidate-in-port-moody-coquitlam-for-b-c-election-1.13493094

 

That's bound to happen when you don't have deep corporate pockets supporting candidates.

 

Not saying that to dismiss your (valid in that instance) concern but it's a clear symptom of a presently poorly functioning system. And it's only gong to change one way...

[Rush17]

On 22/04/2017 at 7:50 PM, Heretic said:

who determines which party is worth voting for.  it's an election not a dictatorship.   these types of images only further clouds the pond.  the people that make these are just mad their team doesn't have enough votes to win.

[clam linguine]

Did you ever wonder why the NY Times would be interested in Christy?  There is only one reason. BC is the conduit for Canadian oil to compete with foreign oil. The Saudi candidates are Green and Orange. (Sure, Canadian oil isn't a huge threat to OPEC, but they have more influence than they have targets)

 

The liberals lead our poll because of votes from displaced Canuck fans living in Alberta. Don't worry pinkos...they won't actually be voting in the election. Can't wait for the forthcoming Green prosperity. Vote Green...then pack your bags.  lol

[Sapper]

Today in the news Christy is tripling down on BC Liberal alternate facts. On their website they continue to go after the NDP over MSP premiums. The expectation is that you get amnesia over the facts that they have said the same thing and she is hiding from her leadership responsibilities to reveal how they would do it. In their releases they have had some ex fed finance people publish a review of what the BC Liberals say is the NDP budget if they win. Again the expectation is that people will skip over pesky details such as "the items are not part of the NDP platform" ... folks can read the news link just above from M.Symth....

 

Again .... what can you really call people buying into this? To quote the article" just a bunch of alternative-facts garbage "

 

Also a new crisis is the BC Liberal acknowledgment of massive tax increases they imposed. with doubling the MSP premiums. They are attacking the NDP fear mongering that they will roll it into taxes. Now wait a moment - that's an acknowledgement that it is a tax already.. when the BC Liberals doubled the MSP that means an additional Billion dollars in taxes. Its ok for her to be the lead Dipper? The BC Liberals cut business taxes to the point that there was not enough left for social programs. To pay for that they added a billion more in personal taxes that are not avoidable for anyone living in BC. Heck even those to young to work or too old to work gotta pay the msp.

BC liberals are A okay with massive taxes for some. The BC Liberals are fighting to save corporate tax cuts with everything they have. It is time for the BC Liberals to take  stand - to come clean - to be honest and tell voters what they cut , will cut , what further taxes , closures and family hurting privatization schemes do they have hidden ..... to keep corporate tax cuts in place no matter what. The BC Liberal ( Dipper ) party has got to come clean - they must force their party leader to lead, and let voters know the details so they can make informed decisions.

 

Got to admit that a party that taxes us to the ground does an excellent job of having their supporters ignore that and if you think about it - their complete partly line this election is every reason why they shouldn't be returned to office.

 

So maybe Stupid was a bit harsh - I am feeling very sorry for BC Liberal supporters who actually stop listening to the alternate facts nonsense. It must be like waking up and realizing that you have been well played.

 

Don't get me wrong - anyone wanting to support the liberals with the acceptance of their tax and spend policies etc ---- have at it. Those supporting her based on alternate facts and a trump style double down when wrong ..... well yah - your the ones that the shoe fits.

If I was a BC Liberal supporter I would be livid with these tactics and use of alternate facts and be demanding she stops and comes clean with the plan to eliminate MSP premiums and why they doubled them while cutting deeper on business taxes. Or do BC Liberal supporters love being taxed that much?

 

 

[Warhippy]

Clark promising a debt free BC for our kids...is it a load ?  Why yes, yes it is

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-liberals-promise-to-not-leave-debt-for-our-kids-is-misleading-1.4083312

 

At nearly every campaign stop, B.C. Liberal Leader Christy Clark tells her supporters her government will "make sure we don't leave our children with a debt."

But a CBC Fact Check shows that, according to economists, Clark's comments are misleading.

"Even if we are as charitable as possible to the underlying assumption the premier is making, it is untrue," said Rob Gillezeau, associate professor of economics at the University of Victoria.

"The province has debt on the books. The fiscal plan has debt accumulation on the books, so there is no way that statement is going to be true," said Gillezeau. 

 

B.C.'s overall provincial debt is forecast to hit $47 billion by 2020, according to public accounts. There's another $30 billion in debt when you count Crown corporations such as BC Hydro, and TI Corp. — what is known as self-supporting debt because they generate their own revenue. 

But that is not the debt Clark is talking about.

"It's obviously debt that the public will face regardless. Whether it's directly under a corporation, it doesn't really matter for purposes of whether the public has debt. It's sheltered under a Crown corporation," said Gillezeau, 

 

 

B.C.'s overall "high debt burden" and BC Hydro's growing liabilities prompted a warning of a possible downgrade by Moody's credit analysts in January.

"The anticipated increase in debt continues to pressure the province's rating, since it raises the contingent liability of British Columbia," said the report, which ultimately upheld the provinces AAA rating.

That rating affects how many tax dollars go to servicing the debt.

B.C.'s debt-to-GDP ratio, which measures the province's ability to pay its debts, is expected to stay relatively constant at 16 per cent, which is better than most provinces, according to a Royal Bank analysis.

 

Libs to pay 'operational debt' only

The B.C. Liberals' platform says they are only promising to pay off operating debt, a detail Clark often leaves out. That is the day to day costs of running hospitals, schools, and government services.

 

Even with operating debt paid, B.C.'s overall debt is forecast to balloon to $77.6 billion by 2020.

"We're thinking about the future, putting money aside for our children in a savings account, making the electricity supply our kids will need, building the infrastructure our kids will need, paying off the debt, so they don't have to, said Clark in defence of Site C on April 19.

"She should say operating debt. It is incorrect to say there will be no debt. They are actually adding debt year after year. .. we're still going to have to pay that off, said Lindsay Tedds, associate professor, School of Public Administration, University of Victoria.

"The Liberals are totally spinning this one."

 

Tedds said the NDP is also promising to pay of the operating debt and Clark should specify she's not talking about overall debt every time she brings up the softened version of her old 2013 campaign slogan: "Debt Free B.C." 

Grandchildren will pay Site C debt

BC Hydro is also expected to spend another $20 billion on infrastructure, adding to the provincial debt and has told the B.C. Utilities Commission it will take 70 years to pay off Site C, starting when it's built in 2024.

 

"It goes beyond our kids," said Tedds, pointing out that voters' children, grandchildren and even great-grandchildren could be paying for the taxpayer-funded project until 2094.

 

TI Corp, the Crown corporation created to build the $3.4-billion Port Mann Bridge and highway expansion, will also be borrowing to build a $3.5-billion bridge to replace the Massey Tunnel.

 

All that, plus BC Hydro's growing debt, could see the province carrying an estimated $97 billion in debt.

"This is debt for my kids and it is debt for her kids. That is debt that has to be paid off by future taxpayers," said Tedds

 

"Maybe there is an aspirational goal they are shooting for in the long run, but when Christy Clark is finished being premier, British Columbia will have debt," said Gillezeau.

===============================================================================

 

One of the most remarkable things is when you dig in to things, people on the Liberal side of the fence in Bc continue to claim the NDP borrow and increase taxes or fees and plunge BC in to debt.

Except, when you look at the story and many just like it.  For almost 20 years, the BC liberals have increased taxes, fees and borrowed heavily to build projects while increasing our debt to unheard of levels.