PhillipBlunt Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 12 hours ago, hatedkid666 said: So youre saying with reaves in the lineup that ovechkin/niskanen thing wont happen? Okay lmao Once again, you miss the larger picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, aGENT said: As @drummerboy already eluded to (and I already explained to you elsewhere), 'top D' make $7m+ in today's cap dollars, not $4-5m. $4-5m is 2nd pair territory, right where Gudbranson, strangely enough, fits in. And I don't take 'offense' to your prediction, I think you simply lack an understanding of present day player valuations as they relate to the current cap, inflation etc. I also think you slightly undervalue what Gudbranson brings as an NHL player. So you can spare me your lecture on the salary cap, thanks. Gudbranson is a 3rd pairing D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Safe to say that if JB cannot get Guddy under contract by mid January he could be the hottest trade bait for any contender. If he does resign trade Edler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 9 hours ago, drummerboy said: Keep in mind our 'top d' are making 2,3,4 mill less than other teams top D. We don't have that superstar taking up 8 mill on the blue line, so we have room. There isn't a huge gap between our top 2 and the next 2. 4.5-5 isn't a crazy number for a solid top 4 guy who brings what Guddy does. Agree with everything except the last statement. Guddy, when on his game, brings physicality. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. When he's not on his game, he brings nothing to the table that we couldn't get in any physical defenseman paid a third of the price. I don't believe he is a top 4 guy... he's a complimentary player on any pairing. I know we all had high hopes for him, but honestly I'd rather have Sbisa at 3.5m than Guddy at 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Where'd Luongo? said: Gudbranson is a 3rd pairing D. Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 30 minutes ago, aGENT said: Nope. That's where Travis Green has him. Are you saying you know better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Just now, Where'd Luongo? said: That's where Travis Green has him. Are you saying you know better? *Baumgartner And we don't actually have a 1st, 2nd or 3rd pair and all of our D have moved around pairings and partners with injuries, games etc. So again, nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: *Baumgartner And we don't actually have a 1st, 2nd or 3rd pair and all of our D have moved around pairings and partners with injuries, games etc. So again, nope. They also "say" there isn't a first line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, Where'd Luongo? said: They also "say" there isn't a first line. There isn't. Some nights Sutter's line plays more minutes than Horvat's. Does that make them the first line or more importantly in this discussion, individually, '1st line players'? There's an important distinction here. On a team full of #2, #3, #4 and #5 D, do their minutes make MDZ an NHL #1D? Does it make Stecher an NHL #7D? Gallant played Gudbranson the most minutes in FLA during their playoffs a few years ago, does that make him a #1D? Nope, nope and nope. Guys don't get paid based on their place on a team's depth chart or ice time. At least no solely. They get paid based on their comparables league wide. I'm not sure why people have so much trouble with this concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, aGENT said: There isn't. Some nights Sutter's line plays more minutes than Horvat's. Does that make them the first line or more importantly in this discussion, individually, '1st line players'? There's an important distinction here. On a team full of #2, #3, #4 and #5 D, do their minutes make MDZ an NHL #1D? Does it make Stecher an NHL #7D? Gallant played Gudbranson the most minutes in FLA during their playoffs a few years ago, does that make him a #1D? Nope, nope and nope. Guys don't get paid based on their place on a team's depth chart. They get paid based on their comparables league wide. I'm not sure why people have so much trouble with this concept. Guys definitely get paid baced on their place on a depth chart. That's a major factor in how they are valued. To address your second point, yes MDZ is OUR #1D. On some other teams he would not be. As for where the lines sit for TOI: 1 - Baer - Bo - Boes = ATOI of 16.75 2 - Gran - Sutter - Dors = ATOI of 16.23 3 - Sedin - Sedin - Erik = ATOI of 14.07 4 - Vanek - Burm - Gagn = ATOI of 13.00 I'm over it. Feel how you want to feel, but here is the reality of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Where'd Luongo? said: Guys definitely get paid baced on their place on a depth chart. That's a major factor in how they are valued. As for where the lines sit for TOI: 1 - Baer - Bo - Boes = ATOI of 16.75 2 - Gran - Sutter - Dors = ATOI of 16.23 3 - Sedin - Sedin - Erik = ATOI of 14.07 4 - Vanek - Burm - Gagn = ATOI of 13.00 It's a factor. It's not a sole indicator. And again, we're not presently built in as a 'traditional' team. We basically have two 2nd lines, two 3rd lines and three 2nd pairs (or thereabouts). ATOI also is a rather simplistic manner of looking at it/doesn't factor in game match ups/doesn't factor in injuries. It also still ignores my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 minute ago, aGENT said: It's a factor. It's not a sole indicator. And again, we're not presently built in as a 'traditional' team. We basically have two 2nd lines, two 3rd lines and three 2nd pairs (or thereabouts). ATOI also is a rather simplistic manner of looking at it/doesn't factor in game match ups/doesn't factor in injuries. It also still ignores my point. What do you mean we have two 2nd lines and 3 2nd pairs? I thought we had none. ATOI is the easiest way to see who gets to play the most, meaning who the coach wants on the ice longer, meaning who the coach thinks can help win the most, meaning the 1st line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 18/11/2017 at 1:34 PM, coastal.view said: we need a pool of interested teams to which a trade for gud can be considered i doubt he will be prepared to sign a new contract with the canucks for salary and term that makes sense for this team if he fills a specific need / role on a playoff team that could enhance his trade value so the canucks need to keep all their options open that would be pure stupidity. he is, easily, the Canucks best dman, and likely the next captain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Where'd Luongo? said: What do you mean we have two 2nd lines and 3 2nd pairs? I thought we had none. ...and now you're trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: ...and now you're trolling. Here is wikipedia's definition: Types of line[edit] The first line is usually composed of the best offensive players on the team. Teams heavily rely on this line, which generates the bulk of the team's scoring. These players often see the highest number of minutes among forwards in a game and are usually part of the team's starting lineup. PS I'm not trolling, you just refuse to accept truth. I've backed up my arguments in each post with hard facts, not soft snowflakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Where'd Luongo? said: Gudbranson is a 3rd pairing D. Guddy is a guy who can dominate a series defensively and physically wear down the other teams top line. As for proof, ask the NYI’s Willie Mitchell and Roberto Loungo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, Where'd Luongo? said: Here is wikipedia's definition: Types of line[edit] The first line is usually composed of the best offensive players on the team. Teams heavily rely on this line, which generates the bulk of the team's scoring. These players often see the highest number of minutes among forwards in a game and are usually part of the team's starting lineup. PS I'm not trolling, you just refuse to accept truth. I've backed up my arguments in each post with hard facts, not soft snowflakes. So according to your 'truth' and 'hard facts', Dorsett is now a top 6 forward. Cool I think we're done here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, aGENT said: So according to your 'truth' and 'hard facts', Dorsett is now a top 6 forward. Cool I think we're done here... Well he plays on our second line doesn't he. He is also tied for second most goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Where'd Luongo? said: Well he plays on our second line doesn't he. He is also tied for second most goals. Yup. Clearly a top 6 forward, you've got me convinced. He'll surely be making $5m+ on his next contract. Am I doing it right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 minute ago, aGENT said: Yup. Clearly a top 6 forward, you've got me convinced. He'll surely be making $5m+ on his next contract. Am I doing it right now? Yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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