BC to raise minimum wage to $15.20 by 2021

[Gurn]

4 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Math problem for mr.econ @kingofsurrey

 

A business owner makes $110/hr profit and has 7 employees currently each making $10/hr.  That means the owner is taking home $40/hr. (which roughly equals to the owner making 80k a year, that's a reasonable business)  What happens to that guys business, when the gov't forces the min wage to now be $15/hr?

 

 

 

I think you are confusing profit and gross income. Here you state the owner is making a $110/profit and 7 employees are making $10 per hour.

This would mean the business is creating the owners profit of $110/hr  after   the $70 per hour labour cost is taken out of gross income. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

5 hours ago, gurn said:

I think you are confusing profit and gross income. Here you state the owner is making a $110/profit and 7 employees are making $10 per hour.

This would mean the business is creating the owners profit of $110/hr  after   the $70 per hour labour cost is taken out of gross income. 

Sure. I was giving a hypothetical example in which I pretty sure we all understood the point of. But yes if we were providing a accounting statement, gross income would be the correct term. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

10 hours ago, Dral said:

please share whatever it is your smoking....

Haha have you not had such a good experience at the McDonald’s drive thru that you thought to yourself. I need to go back to that fast food store?  

 

Notice McDonald’s doesn’t even guarantee a smile anymore. It’s becuase they understand people are going there for the experience. They are going there for their cheap burgers. McDonald’s was struggling really bad until they came up with there value menu. People want to save on $.  So McDonald’s needs to keep their cost as low as possible. Raising min means they need to cut more costs aka introducing touch screen cashiers = less employees 

 

the two main focusses among businesses is price and service/quality. If your providing the best service you people are willing to pay a bit higher of a price.  But we are starting to see more and more of a focus on price being the main target. We are seeing online retailers wipe out brick and mortar despite having next to no employee engagement. Why? Because they can keep there expenses really low. They don’t need to pay the high rent in busy traffic locations for there warehouses and the don’t need to hire sales staff. It gives them an advantage on price. 

 

The reason why walmart is so successful is because they really understood this and came up with the best way to reduce expenses. They chose buying power and logistics.  Because they buy products at such a large value they get it at a huge discount. Then their shipping to stores is best in the world. I’ve been to their Canadian shipping center where all the products comes and they decide and ship out from there. It’s top notch. 

 

Big companies have these advantages over small companies becuase of their scale. So when min wage goes up those big companies can absorb the hit where the small business can’t. They either need to cut hours or raise prices. But raising prices means they lose business as people will ultimately chose the cheapest price and in the end Canadian business owners shut their doors. 

 

Raising min wage is a extreme simplistic approach to giving people more but it’s not reality. There’s a cause and effect of raising min wage and unemployment. Every 10% wages go up results in a 8% cut on jobs. 

 

It’s humorous listening to KOS talk as he’s purely emotional decision based. He doesn’t understand money. On one hand he expects high quality of life for everyone and then on the other he wants Canada to stop drilling oil. The guy lives in the clouds believing money just magically falls from the sky. When we run out we can just pray to the magic unicorn for more. 

 

Anyway that was a long rant. 

[kingofsurrey]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Haha have you know had such a good experience at the McDonald’s driver through that you thought to yourself. I need to go back to that drive through?  

 

Notice McDonald’s doesn’t even guarantee a smile anymore. It’s becuase they understand people are going there for the experience. They are going there for their cheap burgers. McDonald’s was struggling really bad until they came up with there value menu. People want to save on $.  So McDonald’s needs to keep their cost as low as possible. Raising min means they need to cut more costs aka introducing touch screen cashiers = less employees 

 

the two main focusses among businesses is price and service/quality. If your providing the best service you people are willing to pay a bit higher of a price.  But we are starting to see more and more of a focus on price being the main target. We are seeing online retailers wipe out brick and mortar despite having next to no employee engagement. Why? Because they can keep there expenses really low. They don’t need to pay the high rent in busy traffic locations for there warehouses and the don’t need to hire sales staff. It gives them an advantage on price. 

 

The reason why walmart is so successful is because they really understood this and came up with the best way to reduce expenses. They chose buying power and logistics.  Because they buy products at such a large value they get it at a huge discount. Then their shipping to stores is best in the world. I’ve been to their Canadian shipping center where all the products comes and they decide and ship out from there. It’s top notch. 

 

Big companies have these advantages over small companies becuase of their scale. So when min wage goes up those big companies can absorb the hit where the small business can’t. They either need to cut hours or raise prices. But raising prices means they lose business as people will ultimately chose the cheapest price and in the end Canadian business owners shut their doors. 

 

Raising min wage is a extreme simplistic approach to giving people more but it’s not reality. There’s a cause and effect of raising min wage and unemployment. Every 10% wages go up results in a 8% cut on jobs. 

 

It’s humorous listening to KOS talk as he’s purely emotional decision based. He doesn’t understand money. On one hand he expects high quality of life for everyone and then on the other he wants Canada to stop drilling oil. The guy lives in the clouds believing money just magically falls from the sky. When we run out we can just pray to the magic unicorn for more. 

 

Anyway that was a long rant. 

Sorry never read it.

[kingofsurrey]

McDonalds is a good case study

 

Some background reading for you first though...

 

You want fries with your poverty wages and exploited McDonald's workers?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/15/poverty-wages-exploited-workers-mcdonalds-protests

[Dral]

22 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

McDonalds is a good case study

 

Some background reading for you first though...

 

You want fries with your poverty wages and exploited McDonald's workers?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/15/poverty-wages-exploited-workers-mcdonalds-protests

Sorry, never read it...

 

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

28 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Sorry never read it.

I thought you put me on ignore?

 

ahh so you’re a phony too. Hey everyone this guys a phony. 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

McDonalds is a good case study

 

Some background reading for you first though...

 

You want fries with your poverty wages and exploited McDonald's workers?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/15/poverty-wages-exploited-workers-mcdonalds-protests

 

has McD's actually reduced their total number of employee's since doing this? 

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

44 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

has McD's actually reduced their total number of employee's since doing this? 

 

In overall numbers today. Nope. But that has more to do with McDonald’s total growth and expansion as a whole. It also had to do with the machines not being deployed to all stores yet. I think only 14k have been sent out so far. By 2020 the are deploy 350,000 more. And then it’s only a matter of time before they find a way to automate that making of the food. 

 

Walmarts has been in the self checkout for a while now and they shown a huge reduction in employee costs but are really feeling the heat from amazon and online retail. Amazons new grocery store only needs 6-10 employees. 

 

Furtunes last report was 6.5-7 million retail jobs will be lost to automation in the next 10 years. 73% of those jobs are women. Unless we see a change from people’s focus on price to being willing to pay a bit extra for quality service. Jobs are going to be lost.

 

Min wage definitely isn’t the sole blame on this, as automation is going to happen no matter what. But raising it only forces company to speed up the process. It’s a future problem that we don’t have the answer too but somethings that we really need to start considering. 

[riffraff]

29 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

In overall numbers today. Nope. But that has more to do with McDonald’s total growth and expansion as a whole. It also had to do with the machines not being deployed to all stores yet. I think only 14k have been sent out so far. By 2020 the are deploy 350,000 more. And then it’s only a matter of time before they find a way to automate that making of the food. 

 

Walmarts has been in the self checkout for a while now and they shown a huge reduction in employee costs but are really feeling the heat from amazon and online retail. Amazons new grocery store only needs 6-10 employees. 

 

Furtunes last report was 6.5-7 million retail jobs will be lost to automation in the next 10 years. 73% of those jobs are women. Unless we see a change from people’s focus on price to being willing to pay a bit extra for quality service. Jobs are going to be lost.

 

Min wage definitely isn’t the sole blame on this, as automation is going to happen no matter what. But raising it only forces company to speed up the process. It’s a future problem that we don’t have the answer too but somethings that we really need to start considering. 

I was in mcchucks last week.....just getting a coffee ftr.

 

anyways there is a mcds app you can get which allows you to order ahead via the interwebs....one less human interaction right there.

[riffraff]

2 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

McDonalds is a good case study

 

Some background reading for you first though...

 

You want fries with your poverty wages and exploited McDonald's workers?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/15/poverty-wages-exploited-workers-mcdonalds-protests

The real hard reality is that there shouldn't be McDonald's.

 

ill go so far as to say that it is irresponsible to support this company in any way.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

19 minutes ago, riffraff said:

I was in mcchucks last week.....just getting a coffee ftr.

 

anyways there is a mcds app you can get which allows you to order ahead via the interwebs....one less human interaction right there.

Yeah Starbucks also started doing that too

[JM_]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Min wage definitely isn’t the sole blame on this, as automation is going to happen no matter what. But raising it only forces company to speed up the process. It’s a future problem that we don’t have the answer too but somethings that we really need to start considering. 

Not for anything needing an aspect of service to it. You can automate a lot of things but if the business still needs a human involved then getting good people is still the major hurdle imo. 

 

Amazon is trying out a new model of no checkout at all, but unless the price is drastically lower than No Frills or something like that it's only going to appeal to those that can afford convenience in the first place. The news I've seen on that is not about them going for low price brands to support that. The folks doing the stocking and monitoring still need to be there too, and Amazon is going to have to be competitive in wages to make that work. 

[Dral]

22 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Not for anything needing an aspect of service to it. You can automate a lot of things but if the business still needs a human involved then getting good people is still the major hurdle imo. 

 

Amazon is trying out a new model of no checkout at all, but unless the price is drastically lower than No Frills or something like that it's only going to appeal to those that can afford convenience in the first place. The news I've seen on that is not about them going for low price brands to support that. The folks doing the stocking and monitoring still need to be there too, and Amazon is going to have to be competitive in wages to make that work. 

I'm not convinced people go to mcdonalds for the service.... and I'm also not convinced that mcdonalds needs anything more then a warm body...

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, Dral said:

I'm not convinced people go to mcdonalds for the service.... and I'm also not convinced that mcdonalds needs anything more then a warm body...

but thats ok, its actually a great job for a kid and the management training has a good reputation.

 

My wife and I tried one of these things a few weeks ago and picked the table delivery service option, I dunno, worked for me. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Not for anything needing an aspect of service to it. You can automate a lot of things but if the business still needs a human involved then getting good people is still the major hurdle imo. 

 

Yeah but entry level jobs are the easiest to be automated. They don’t require a high skill set and when people start demanding mandatory,above market value wages for those jobs, companies looks to automation for efficiency and reduce costs. 

 

 

Quote

Amazon is trying out a new model of no checkout at all, but unless the price is drastically lower than No Frills or something like that it's only going to appeal to those that can afford convenience in the first place. The news I've seen on that is not about them going for low price brands to support that. The folks doing the stocking and monitoring still need to be there too, and Amazon is going to have to be competitive in wages to make that work. 

For a business to be successful you need to have an advantage over your competition. It’s either through price or service. In order to keep profit margins high and product prices low, you need to be as efficent as possible and reduce all expenses. The biggest expense tends to be wages. Amazon can pay those 6 employees 20$ an hr and still see savings on wage expenses. Because they are hiring a 1/4 of the staff their competition has to.  Yes that means 25% of their work force gets a high wage. But the other 75% are now looking for work. 

 

And when there’s a surplus in labor companies can then start picking and choosing who they hire on qualifications, essentially cutting out the entry level jobs. When my future kids turn 16-18. Good luck for them finding part time work in what will be a ultra competitive market. 

 

We are starting to see solutions to this with social media companies like twitch, or Uber and skip the dish. These jobs Bi-pass paying minimum wage as they label themselves independent contractors and in most cases they end up getting less, nevertheless those business are growing and people are signing up to work for them. 

 

 

In in the past raising min wage would typically result in inflation and a raise in prices to counteract. But in today we have other solutions.  Automation is exciting but it’s also a very scary future. Raising minimum wages puts us in high gear towards that.

 

That’s why terms like manditory living expense is being brought up a lot. 

It’s not because raising wages brings more people out of poverty. It’s putting us down a path to do the opposite. It will take a small percentage or the lower class and put them into the middle class, and then dump the rest right in to poverty, with much harder barriers in the way to try and climb out. 

[Dral]

12 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Yeah but entry level jobs are the easiest to be automated. They don’t require a high skill set and when people start demanding mandatory,above market value wages for those jobs, companies looks to automation for efficiency and reduce costs. 

 

 

For a business to be successful you need to have an advantage over your competition. It’s either through price or service. In order to keep profit margins high and product prices low, you need to be as efficent as possible and reduce all expenses. The biggest expense tends to be wages. Amazon can pay those 6 employees 20$ an hr and still see savings on wage expenses. Because they are hiring a 1/4 of the staff their competition has to.  Yes that means 25% of their work force gets a high wage. But the other 75% are now looking for work. 

 

And when there’s a surplus in labor companies can then start picking and choosing who they hire on qualifications, essentially cutting out the entry level jobs. When my future kids turn 16-18. Good luck for them finding part time work in what will be a ultra competitive market. 

 

We are starting to see solutions to this with social media companies like twitch, or Uber and skip the dish. These jobs Bi-pass paying minimum wage as they label themselves independent contractors and in most cases they end up getting less, nevertheless those business are growing and people are signing up to work for them. 

 

 

In in the past raising min wage would typically result in inflation and a raise in prices to counteract. But in today we have other solutions.  Automation is exciting but it’s also a very scary future. Raising minimum wages puts us in high gear towards that.

 

That’s why terms like manditory living expense is being brought up a lot. 

It’s not because raising wages brings more people out of poverty. It’s putting us down a path to do that opposite. It will take a small percentage and put them into the middle class and dump lower class right in to poverty which much harder barriers in the way to try and climb out. 

No no - people will be HAPPY because of this... and happy people work harder

[JM_]

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Yeah but entry level jobs are the easiest to be automated. They don’t require a high skill set and when people start demanding mandatory,above market value wages for those jobs, companies looks to automation for efficiency and reduce costs. 

 

 

For a business to be successful you need to have an advantage over your competition. It’s either through price or service. In order to keep profit margins high and product prices low, you need to be as efficent as possible and reduce all expenses. The biggest expense tends to be wages. Amazon can pay those 6 employees 20$ an hr and still see savings on wage expenses. Because they are hiring a 1/4 of the staff their competition has to.  Yes that means 25% of their work force gets a high wage. But the other 75% are now looking for work. 

 

And when there’s a surplus in labor companies can then start picking and choosing who they hire on qualifications, essentially cutting out the entry level jobs. When my future kids turn 16-18. Good luck for them finding part time work in what will be a ultra competitive market. 

 

We are starting to see solutions to this with social media companies like twitch, or Uber and skip the dish. These jobs Bi-pass paying minimum wage as they label themselves independent contractors and in most cases they end up getting less, nevertheless those business are growing and people are signing up to work for them. 

 

 

In in the past raising min wage would typically result in inflation and a raise in prices to counteract. But in today we have other solutions.  Automation is exciting but it’s also a very scary future. Raising minimum wages puts us in high gear towards that.

 

That’s why terms like manditory living expense is being brought up a lot. 

It’s not because raising wages brings more people out of poverty. It’s putting us down a path to do the opposite. It will take a small percentage or the lower class and put them into the middle class, and then dump the rest right in to poverty, with much harder barriers in the way to try and climb out. 

 

curious... have you ever hired anyone? 

 

[kingofsurrey]

14 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

curious... have you ever hired anyone? 

 

No, he works front till at McDonalds .....

[ForsbergTheGreat]

18 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

curious... have you ever hired anyone? 

 

Yeah. Ive owned two business. A painting business that i started in the summers during university. And a framing business. I did right after University for a year until I got a job that put my degree to good use. I’ve had to hire many different people.