JM_ Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 45 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Facts? I’m yet to see you provide any facts that support your argument. I’ve first hand things I’ve accomplished in life. And you’ve listed what? Your brother you had a discussion with? Pat on the back to you. You’ve really lived. read the links I gave you a real, single example of min wage in Australia to counteract your treatise, didn't want to overwhelm you. I suppose all your accomplishments came with no assistance from anyone, right? self-made guy are we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 42 minutes ago, Dral said: raising the minimum wage by 50% is basically welfare at the expense of small business... (I'm talking about Ontario here)... and honestly I don't think someone who says "Do you want to supersize that?" actually deserves $15/hr... a lot of these minimum wage jobs don't deserve more money... if you want to earn more money, you need to work for it And people like SurreyKing like to work from the "principle" that no one "deserves" anything bad... except of course, life doesn't owe any of us anything well there is an argument for that - I do think if you are going to raise it that much small businesses need to get a break somewhere else, like lowering taxes and/or tax credits for job creation to balance things out. I much prefer the idea of a higher min wage to something like a guaranteed income. The min wage is at least based on actual work performed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: thats about what I'd expect to hear from a younger conservative, jesus thats cold hearted. About the expected response of a liberal, Jesus that's thin skinned hyperbolic misrepresentation of a statement. see how that works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 minute ago, riffraff said: About the expected response of a liberal, Jesus that's thin skinned hyperbolic misrepresentation of a statement. see how that works? nice to know I'm a "liberal" thanks for that. And he is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dral Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: well there is an argument for that - I do think if you are going to raise it that much small businesses need to get a break somewhere else, like lowering taxes and/or tax credits for job creation to balance things out. I much prefer the idea of a higher min wage to something like a guaranteed income. The min wage is at least based on actual work performed. That's even closer to welfare Tax payer money going to businesses to employ people for more money then they are worth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Just now, Jimmy McGill said: nice to know I'm a "liberal" thanks for that Is forsberg a conservative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Just now, Dral said: That's even closer to welfare Tax payer money going to businesses to employ people for more money then they are worth... well I guess we can keep paying more for all the consequences from the poverty cycle. We pay one way or the other, I prefer that people get a living wage and do some work for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 minute ago, riffraff said: Is forsberg a conservative? self proclaimed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said: self proclaimed And you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dral Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: well there is an argument for that - I do think if you are going to raise it that much small businesses need to get a break somewhere else, like lowering taxes and/or tax credits for job creation to balance things out. I much prefer the idea of a higher min wage to something like a guaranteed income. The min wage is at least based on actual work performed. Also, just out of curiosity, when you say "small businesses" do you include franchises in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dral Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: well I guess we can keep paying more for all the consequences from the poverty cycle. We pay one way or the other, I prefer that people get a living wage and do some work for it. So you seem to have missed my point entirely... that being, you don't solve the poverty cycle by throwing money at it... as evidenced by 50 years of trying to throw money at it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 19 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: read the links I gave you a real, single example of min wage in Australia to counteract your treatise, didn't want to overwhelm you. I suppose all your accomplishments came with no assistance from anyone, right? self-made guy are we? Your links don’t prove anything. I’m glad we can figure out that 61.8% of Ontario’s min wage earners are between 15-25. That 71.8% of Ontario’s min wage earners have not completed post secondary education. My favorite part “the majority of minimum wage earners are dependent working age children (a son or daughter living in a family home)” You sure proved me wrong. Haha swing and a miss. Suprised you missed all that. Must be all the life experience you have getting in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, riffraff said: And you? PC (federal) but my party was taken over by social conservatives like Forsberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownky Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 In theory, it bumps up wages in the mid range as well. The Aussies do well, I worked over there for a little bit a number of years ago. Yes, everything costs more, but they also make more. I was making $20 an hour at a reception desk of a hostel over there... I made $18 here as an IT guy. It wasn't even minimum wage - it was above, because minimum wage is 'easier' yet. Why go to school and do 'stuff', for $17 an hour when I could mcflip for $15? So the $17 / hr job has to go up to attract people away from the McFlip job. And so it goes on - or that's how it should work. There'll be short term growing pains no doubt, but it's not like the entire system will crumble because the big mac costs $.50 more. I'm fine with it. To be frank, "poor people" with more money is excellent for the economy. Poor people spend their money as they get it - it's why they're poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Your links don’t prove anything. I’m glad we can figure out that 61.8% of Ontario’s min wage earners are between 15-25. That 71.8% of Ontario’s min wage earners have not completed post secondary education. My favorite part “the majority of minimum wage earners are dependent working age children (a son or daughter living in a family home)” You sure proved me wrong. Haha swing and a miss. Suprised you missed all that. Must be all the life experience you have getting in the way. so you think those groups are people that have big choices in the labour market? you really have them blinders on buddy. I'd put you on ignore but its too funny. No friend. I think I have you pegged. You really don't have much experience... maybe running back to Calgary with your tail between your legs coloured your view of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, Dral said: So you seem to have missed my point entirely... that being, you don't solve the poverty cycle by throwing money at it... as evidenced by 50 years of trying to throw money at it... no, I got it. If you can show me how we "threw money at it" as a society for 50 years I'm open to looking at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dral Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 12 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: no, I got it. If you can show me how we "threw money at it" as a society for 50 years I'm open to looking at that. So the big thing is how incredibly debatable and debated the effects of welfare on poverty is... welfare is literally throwing money at the problem... what group of people in Canada and the US suffer from poverty the most? How do they actually get out of poverty... again, the 3 rules I posted earlier are what gets you out, not welfare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: so you think those groups are people that have big choices in the labour market? you really have them blinders on buddy. I'd put you on ignore but its too funny. No friend. I think I have you pegged. You really don't have much experience... maybe running back to Calgary with your tail between your legs coloured your view of life. What on earth are you smoking? You think I have the blinders on? Look at the numbers, you posted them. 68.1% of minimum wage earners are 15-24, while only 35.6% minimum wage earners are 25-64. Sure seems like the majority of people are able to pull themselves out of the minimum wage limit. Add in the fact that only 28.2% of people that finished post-secondary education fall back into minimum wage. Sure seems like people have a choice and smart choices means you make more than minimum wage. The evidence you posted supports this. It’s truly fascinating. At first you couldn’t stop going on about how you posted all the facts, but little did you know, those facts proved you wrong. Now that I point that out to you is become back pedaling and insults. P.S why do I have to run back to Calgary, I live in here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: What on earth are you smoking? You think I have the blinders on? Look at the numbers, you posted them. 68.1% of minimum wage earners are 15-24, while only 35.6% minimum wage earners are 25-64. Sure seems like the majority of people are able to pull themselves out of the minimum wage limit. Add in the fact that only 28.2% of people that finished post-secondary education fall back into minimum wage. Sure seems like people have a choice and smart choices means you make more than minimum wage. The evidence you posted supports this. It’s truly fascinating. At first you couldn’t stop going on about how you posted all the facts, but little did you know, those facts proved you wrong. Now that I point that out to you is become back pedaling and insults. P.S why do I have to run back to Calgary, I live in here how did they "prove me wrong"? you haven't explained at all why that 35% is still there. try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: how did they "prove me wrong"? you haven't explained at all why that 35% is still there. try again. The point is not to get all "adults" out of min wage jobs. Some are just fine being there, because they are not the primary breadwinner, and don't need the added stress of higher paying jobs nor acquiring the skills to deserve a better job. Take stay-at-home parents, after the kids move out. They don't have a great work resume, so an entry position for a few extra bucks is just fine while their spouse continues being the top earner. As an alternate and personal example, my wife has worked for a non-profit for years. She has a degree and plenty of employable office skills, but she doesn't need the stress. I make a good living, so she can take something simple that she can enjoy without having to worry about whether there's food on the table or a roof over our head. If you look closer at those numbers, you will see that women (who are more likely to be the stay-at-home parent) are more likely to work a min wage job than men. Some here persist in thinking that raising min wage will have some big impact on poverty. Since most of those working at or near min wage are not primary earners, changing those wages is not going to have as big an impact on poverty reduction. For the people who have settled into those jobs and are trying to make a living, why? Why not try harder, advance their own skills, and become more employable? That will make for a much better raise, and provide more employment options in case they ever get laid off, giving them a better chance at staying out of poverty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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