-DLC- Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, JV77 said: Imo common sense and rationale tells me know one would ever intentionally run a stop to sign and cause and accident to kill people when you will be invoolved in especially when you could be the one seriously hurt or killed. You think I don't give two $&!#s when on a few times it has happened? Gtfo out I gurantee you have made errors driving as has any human. I don't care about intent. I'm sure he didn't MEAN to...but he did. And there was a stop sign missed in a big rig at highway speed that rammed a bus that had the right of way. Killed a bunch of kids. Again, how dare you do that last line....out of respect to the grieving families...this wasn't just an error. "Woops". No, I have not wiped out a bunch of kids who are now dead. For you to miss the significance of that means you're not seeing the big picture here. This was preventable it seems...and they should still be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 53 minutes ago, JV77 said: Imo common sense and rationale tells me know one would ever intentionally run a stop to sign and cause and accident to kill people when you will be invoolved in especially when you could be the one seriously hurt or killed. Why you keep on harping on intent is beyond me. Maybe that's the gist of your faulted argument. Quote You think I don't give two $&!#s when on a few times it has happened? You clearly weren't paying attention, were you? Now before you go into full idiot mode, understand that the statement was referring to the point that some people do flagrantly run signs and lights with little disregard for the rules of the road. N-o-t y-o-u. Ok? Is that clear? Quote Gtfo out I gurantee you have made errors driving as has any human. Grow up. I've never claimed to be a perfect driver, but having witnessed some pretty horrible stuff on the road, I am a very careful driver who does his best to drive safely. Certainly, I've come to a rolling stop at a sign, but have never fully blown through one at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV77 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: I don't care about intent. I'm sure he didn't MEAN to...but he did. And there was a stop sign missed in a big rig at highway speed that rammed a bus that had the right of way. Killed a bunch of kids. Again, how dare you do that last line....out of respect to the grieving families...this wasn't just an error. "Woops". No, I have not wiped out a bunch of kids who are now dead. I was comparing me driving and him making unintended errors. If you have made errors driving then get off the road as he said then....If you don't then how dare you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV77 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Why you keep on harping on intent is beyond me. Maybe that's the gist of your faulted argument. You clearly weren't paying attention, were you? No before you go into full idiot mode, understand that the statement was referring to the point that some people do flagrantly run signs and lights with little disregard for the rules of the road. N-o-t y-o-u. Ok? Is that clear? Grow up. I've never claimed to be a perfect driver, but having witnessed some pretty horrible stuff on the road, I am a very careful driver who does his best to drive safely. Certainly, I've come to a rolling stop at a sign, but have never fully blown through one at all. Well I am mostly just trying to convey that it was accident and wasn't intentional as people are making this out be a plotted murder. Obviously international or not running a stop is going to the issue and why it happened and he probably will be on the hook unless something comes up. We will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 The part you're missing here, JV77, is that a thorough investigation has been conducted and resulted in these charges being laid. Sure, they have to be proven in court...but this isn't just a bunch of CDC'ers on a witch hunt. Sure, we'll wait for the process to unfold as it should. But it's pretty obvious that speed and a failure to yield were factors here. So this "error" was a substantial one and, in assuming responsibility for a job that involves driving in these conditions, unacceptable. Mistakes by a trained professional on the job generally show negligence to some degree. No room for error in these situations. Lives were lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, JV77 said: Well I am mostly just trying to convey that it was accident and wasn't intentional as people are making this out be a plotted murder. Obviously international or not running a stop is going to the issue and why it happened and he probably will be on the hook unless something comes up. We will see. Not "plotted murder". Possible plotted shortcuts and inattentiveness that resulted in numerous fatalities. An accident that is preventable is something more, especially for those on the job who should know better...who have been trained accordingly. It's for that purpose...so that these "accidents" are prevented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV77 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: Not "plotted murder". Possible plotted shortcuts and inattentiveness that resulted in numerous fatalities. An accident that is preventable is something more, especially for those on the job who should know better...who have been trained accordingly. It's for that purpose...so that these "accidents" are prevented. All accidents are preventable....But still happen and always will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV77 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: The part you're missing here, JV77, is that a thorough investigation has been conducted and resulted in these charges being laid. Sure, they have to be proven in court...but this isn't just a bunch of CDC'ers on a witch hunt. Sure, we'll wait for the process to unfold as it should. But it's pretty obvious that speed and a failure to yield were factors here. So this "error" was a substantial one and, in assuming responsibility for a job that involves driving in these conditions, unacceptable. Mistakes by a trained professional on the job generally show negligence to some degree. No room for error in these situations. Lives were lost. Let the trial happen and don't have the "guilty until proven innocent" mentality, not how the system works in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 looking at a map ther's a good possibility that he had already been through this same intersection , may or may not have seen any traffic the first time , who knows ? on his way to carrot river to pick up his load he should have been familiar with this 2 way stop intersection with blinking amber lite, did he down play the significance of it because he didn't see traffic the first time thru? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 Just now, JV77 said: All accidents are preventable....But still happen and always will. Some require extra precaution...driving a big rig on the highway is an example. I can slam on the brakes and stop....he had to be more cautious in a vehicle that doesn't allow for that. Slow down as you enter an intersection. Duh. Especially a blind one with a flashing red... I wouldn't make that mistake....I'd think about things BEFORE I hit that intersection. Again...defensive driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, JV77 said: Let the trial happen and don't have the "guilty until proven innocent" mentality, not how the system works in Canada. I'm not convicting him...I'm here discussing it, that's all. The fact that he's been charged makes it a topic of discussion...awareness is generated and it's a good thing in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV77 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: I'm not convicting him...I'm here discussing it, that's all. The fact that he's been charged makes it a topic of discussion...awareness is generated and it's a good thing in the end. That's not what I was getting from you and your posts along with many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, JV77 said: That's not what I was getting from you and your posts along with many others. That's your deal....our "intent" is to discuss this. We aren't responsible for an innocent or guilty conviction. And we are allowed to have and express opinions. Accidents have varying degrees of preventability. This one appears to have had some factors that contributed to the crash that may have prevented it if done differently. We're not discussing this without some reason to do so...the crash didn't JUST happen and we're crucifying him. After a thorough investigation, charges have been laid. So there's something there and if it means drivers think twice about their actions because it is a topic of discussion, that's a good thing. Again, my concern is NOT for the driver at this point...it's for the victim's families. Time will tell for him but, in the meantime, there's enough there to be concerned about. If he's proven to be innocent, it's still a senseless tragedy that likely didn't have to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 18 minutes ago, JV77 said: Well I am mostly just trying to convey that it was accident and wasn't intentional as people are making this out be a plotted murder. Ok. Seriously? When did I ever state that this man intended to murder the people in the bus with his truck? Please tell me. I didn't. It was, if anything, gross negligence. Meaning that the driver, being someone operating essentially the largest and heaviest vehicles on the road, had a duty and definite responsibility to be as careful and safe as possible when he operated his vehicle, due to the outcome (which is completely obvious) of not doing so. Scanning the road ahead and looking for obstacles, dangerous conditions, and other vehicles is a responsibility of every driver on the road. Some are harder to see than others. Stop signs, unless obscured, are placed in points along the roadside that are completely obvious to spot. To not stop, indicates that either the driver didn't have their eyes on the road, or saw the sign and proceeded. 18 minutes ago, JV77 said: Obviously international or not running a stop is going to the issue and why it happened and he probably will be on the hook unless something comes up. We will see. As Deb said, this investigation has gone on for months. I don't believe that they would suggest a sentence based on opinion and not careful examination of the entire situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI5 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 “Guilty until proven innocent” Just cause the police is pursuing charges; doesn’t mean he’s guilty or that the charges will stick. Probably best for more facts to come out before passing judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 13 minutes ago, HI5 said: “Guilty until proven innocent” Just cause the police is pursuing charges; doesn’t mean he’s guilty or that the charges will stick. Probably best for more facts to come out before passing judgement. We discuss things here, it's what we do. A driver of a semi hit a bus full of kids and adults, killing many of them. Why should we have to be silent? We're not passing judgement, we're discussing what is being disclosed. There is never any harm in ongoing discussions about safety on the road. Even if he isn't found "guilty"....doesn't mean this should just quietly be swept under the rug. It's a good reminder for all to be vigilant on the road. This discussion is about much more than "the driver". Grieving families lost loved ones and that's worth discussing if even one person goes away being more mindful while behind the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 any company that has a contract agreement with teamsters DOES have safety standards (drive time/distance eligibility) for new drivers . any larger company has maintanace standands for the equipment and the driver's ,any company that has a gov, road maintainace contract IS running parallel to ISO standards ,meaning proper training has to be provided and backed up/proven thru audit,s this is something that these small time operators dont have ,theres some talk about more training . with this case should he be proved guilty he wont be, because he's being scapegoated , with the amount of charges I think their pretty confident. there is also talk of amendment of the licence issue process, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, chon derry said: any company that has a contract agreement with teamsters DOES have safety standards (drive time/distance eligibility) for new drivers . any larger company has maintanace standands for the equipment and the driver's ,any company that has a gov, road maintainace contract IS running parallel to ISO standards ,meaning proper training has to be provided and backed up/proven thru audit,s this is something that these small time operators dont have ,theres some talk about more training . with this case should he be proved guilty he wont be, because he's being scapegoated , with the amount of charges I think their pretty confident. there is also talk of amendment of the licence issue process, Exactly....this is more than just the driver being examined here. When these "accidents" happen, it's normal and expected that a thorough review be done. When charges are laid, even moreso. If he is found "innocent" I'm sure there is a can of worms that has been opened despite it all. Two truck family operations being run out of a backyard with name changes when they come under heat. This driver a family "friend"....were there steps being ignored here? It is a worthwhile discussion and, in the event, there was NO wrongdoing, it's still a reminder to everyone of the importance of not taking shortcuts. A moment can change lives forever. This trucking company will likely be more closely looked at too, or should be: Quote A trucking business “connected” to Adesh Deol Trucking Ltd., the company involved in the Humboldt Broncos crash that killed 16 people, has opened at the same Calgary address as Adesh Deol, Global News has learned. Alberta’s Ministry of Transportation confirmed that while Adesh Deol Trucking remains suspended, one of the drivers connected to the Calgary-based business is working with the new company. “Alberta Transportation is aware that a numbered company has been registered that is connected to the company involved with the Humboldt incident,” said John Archer, a spokesperson for Transportation Minister Brian Mason. “It is our understanding that one of the trucks and one of the drivers listed from Adesh Deol Trucking Ltd. are operating with this numbered company.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: Exactly....this is more than just the driver being examined here. When these "accidents" happen, it's normal and expected that a thorough review be done. When charges are laid, even moreso. If he is found "innocent" I'm sure there is a can of worms that has been opened despite it all. Two truck family operations being run out of a backyard with name changes when they come under heat. This driver a family "friend"....were there steps being ignored here? It is a worthwhile discussion and, in the event, there was NO wrongdoing, it's still a reminder to everyone of the importance of not taking shortcuts. A moment can change lives forever. This trucking company will likely be more closely looked at too, or should be: there is on average 25,000 driving job's available just in Canada on any given day , there's a lot of young people taking professional driving course's with the hopes of landing a job, anyone in a position to provide a truck for the road test ,more likely than not see's potential in the person to give them a job, its viewed ,not admitted that a prospective professional driver that has an inside track with the new job may well be somewhat deficient in skills but will pick them up along the way, this is more applicable to single vehicals ,dump trucks delivery trucks, but i'm sure its there in combination vehicals as well. i'm sure the 'look the other way ' approach to small testing infraction is something thats being tossed up in most MOT DIVISIONS IN CANADA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/broncoscrash/parents-of-humboldt-broncos-player-file-lawsuit/ar-AAzQTI6?ocid=spartanntp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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