mpt Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 10 hours ago, debluvscanucks said: True enough. But he/she has a life to ponder with....those kids and innocent victims do not so, if this was due to reckless driving or inattentiveness, it's the families that need the support first and foremost..... I can't imagine how painfully crushing this is. I don't think I could do it.... Ve;ry true. However sending someone to prison when he isn’t a threat to society for making a mistake isn’t a good idea. Send people to prison when they are a risk to society. If he is guilty of anything then ban him from driving, dont send him to prison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummer4now Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, mpt said: Ve;ry true. However sending someone to prison when he isn’t a threat to society for making a mistake isn’t a good idea. Send people to prison when they are a risk to society. If he is guilty of anything then ban him from driving, dont send him to prison IMO it depends on if it was of no fault of his own like mechanical issues with the truck or other unforeseeable circumstances, but if he was criminally in the wrong like not paying attention or under the influence, etc.. then he should be striped of his license for life and thrown in jail for sometime, that and the trucking company being financially responsible for hiring a inexperienced driving and placing him in harsh driving conditions usually suitable for more experienced drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 8 hours ago, drummer4now said: IMO it depends on if it was of no fault of his own like mechanical issues with the truck or other unforeseeable circumstances, but if he was criminally in the wrong like not paying attention or under the influence, etc.. then he should be striped of his license for life and thrown in jail for sometime, that and the trucking company being financially responsible for hiring a inexperienced driving and placing him in harsh driving conditions usually suitable for more experienced drivers. I disagree, if it was an accident and he didnt do it on purpose then you shouldn’t go to jail. How is jail going to make him a better person in the end. We already have enough screwed up people. Send people to jail who are threats to society thats the purpose of jail. Wrecking another life doesn’t help anyone. If he’s an incompetent driver, stop him from driving, jail time for an accident (unless he did it on purpose) serves no purpose. Think about it this way, with your logic, if you were driving going 10 km over the limit like almost everyone does, hit black ice slip into oncoming traffic and hit someone head on killing them. The police then come to your house strip you from your children and throw you in jail making it almost impossible for you to ever find a job nearly as good as the one you had for something you had no actual intention of trying to harm anyone. Him losing his license, paying garnished wages to ICBC for the impending lawsuit for the rest of his life, and living with the thought of him killing that many people is enough punishment for anyone that didn’t do something on purpose. How does throwing him in jail achieve any benefit to anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 9 hours ago, mpt said: Ve;ry true. However sending someone to prison when he isn’t a threat to society for making a mistake isn’t a good idea. Send people to prison when they are a risk to society. If he is guilty of anything then ban him from driving, dont send him to prison Our penalties for crimes are based on precedent, no? This driver ran a stop sign, and killed 16 people. His punishment sets the bar for future drivers, who run stop signs and injure or kill people. This guy goes to prison for life. Anyone who is driving with dangerous disregard for others should be harshly punished. If their actions injure, or kill others, they are off to prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 10 hours ago, mpt said: Ve;ry true. However sending someone to prison when he isn’t a threat to society for making a mistake isn’t a good idea. Send people to prison when they are a risk to society. If he is guilty of anything then ban him from driving, dont send him to prison 2 hours ago, mpt said: I disagree, if it was an accident and he didnt do it on purpose then you shouldn’t go to jail. How is jail going to make him a better person in the end. We already have enough screwed up people. Send people to jail who are threats to society thats the purpose of jail. Wrecking another life doesn’t help anyone. If he’s an incompetent driver, stop him from driving, jail time for an accident (unless he did it on purpose) serves no purpose. Think about it this way, with your logic, if you were driving going 10 km over the limit like almost everyone does, hit black ice slip into oncoming traffic and hit someone head on killing them. The police then come to your house strip you from your children and throw you in jail making it almost impossible for you to ever find a job nearly as good as the one you had for something you had no actual intention of trying to harm anyone. Him losing his license, paying garnished wages to ICBC for the impending lawsuit for the rest of his life, and living with the thought of him killing that many people is enough punishment for anyone that didn’t do something on purpose. How does throwing him in jail achieve any benefit to anyone? Jail isn't supposed to rehabilitate...it's a punishment for breaking the law. The part I've highlighted? You are throwing in a completely different scenario...that WOULD be an accident. The investigation looked at road conditions and many other things (see the list) and it was deemed that he was criminally responsible (I believe he blew through the stop sign...not sure about excessive speed or other factors). IN a big rig. Likely at highway speeds. He didn't slide on black ice according to this investigation....he did something that warranted criminal charges. We'll find out more details later, however, you've thrown out a comparison that is different than what actually reportedly happened. So what if the families are out and about and run into him....knowing his inattentiveness wiped out their kid and many others. I'm thinking of justice for them, NOT what's best for him. That seems fair. He robbed people of their lives and, tragic "accident" or not, there are consequences to that if he contributed to it in any way (which, it seems he did). If it was an "accident' purely based on factors out of his control, he wouldn't have been charged. You can't barrel down the highway in a double trailer rig recklessly and without regard for safety. And, if you do and it causes death, there are consequences. I'm not saying throw him in jail for life...but he definitely needs to be punished for his actions. Those lost lives deserve that. This isn't just about what's best "for him".....those families lost what was best for them. And that needs to be settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 I find it very difficult to muster any sympathy for the driver. Hs criminal negligence has torn apart the lives of so many families. This case should be used to send a clear and direct message to all drivers that their negligence has the potential to kill people and land them in jail for years. Yes, there are many people who do what this driver did and get away with it. They are simply lucky. One day that luck will wear out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedestroyerofworlds Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 An option instead of jail time could be conditional sentence. For the next 3, 5 , 10 , whatever years he cannot get any criminal charges. If he does then off to jail. A little perspective. The lady (impaired by alcohol) who hit a little girl (killed) and her aunt while they were off the road feeding a horse was sentenced to 2.5 years. I don't see this guy getting years and years more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Alflives said: Our penalties for crimes are based on precedent, no? This driver ran a stop sign, and killed 16 people. His punishment sets the bar for future drivers, who run stop signs and injure or kill people. This guy goes to prison for life. Anyone who is driving with dangerous disregard for others should be harshly punished. If their actions injure, or kill others, they are off to prison. For intent. Sending someone to jail when they didn’t intend to do any harm doesn’t benefit anyone in society. By your logic next time someone slips in walmart and breaks their leg on a wet floor, charge the negligent store employee who didn’t clean it up well enough with assault. When people make accidents without intent to do harm, punishing them by jail does nothing to protect society. Its not like he’s a rapist or murderer. Life time ban of driving and garnishing of lifetime wages from the insurance company makes a lot more sense to me as reasonable punishment. The end must justify the means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 minute ago, mpt said: For intent. Sending someone to jail when they didn’t intend to do any harm doesn’t benefit anyone in society. By your logic next time someone slips in walmart and breaks their leg on a wet floor, charge the negligent store employee who didn’t clean it up well enough with assault. The driver disregarded a stop sign, and killed 16 people as a consequence. He’s done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said: Jail isn't supposed to rehabilitate...it's a punishment for breaking the law. The part I've highlighted? You are throwing in a completely different scenario...that WOULD be an accident. The investigation looked at road conditions and many other things (see the list) and it was deemed that he was criminally responsible (I believe he blew through the stop sign...not sure about excessive speed or other factors). IN a big rig. Likely at highway speeds. He didn't slide on black ice according to this investigation....he did something that warranted criminal charges. We'll find out more details later, however, you've thrown out a comparison that is different than what actually reportedly happened. So what if the families are out and about and run into him....knowing his inattentiveness wiped out their kid and many others. I'm thinking of justice for them, NOT what's best for him. That seems fair. He robbed people of their lives and, tragic "accident" or not, there are consequences to that if he contributed to it in any way (which, it seems he did). If it was an "accident' purely based on factors out of his control, he wouldn't have been charged. You can't barrel down the highway in a double trailer rig recklessly and without regard for safety. And, if you do and it causes death, there are consequences. I'm not saying throw him in jail for life...but he definitely needs to be punished for his actions. Those lost lives deserve that. This isn't just about what's best "for him".....those families lost what was best for them. And that needs to be settled. Jail isn’t supposed to be punishment for breaking the law. Its supposed to remove people from public that are a risk to society. If he’s not driving a car, he’s not a risk. If jail was punishment for breaking the law then everyone whom commits a crime goes to prison; that doesn’t happen. The only ones that go to jail are the people that deem a threat to society. If assaulters and thieves don’t go to jail in our country, then someone who accidentally hurts someone shouldn’t go to prison, when others whom purposefully commit crimes don’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Alflives said: The driver disregarded a stop sign, and killed 16 people as a consequence. He’s done. From driving, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 3 hours ago, mpt said: Him losing his license, paying garnished wages to ICBC for the impending lawsuit for the rest of his life, and living with the thought of him killing that many people is enough punishment for anyone that didn’t do something on purpose. How does throwing him in jail achieve any benefit to anyone? The other thing I must add is that he DID DO something on purpose, which was drive a big rig without the proper care and attention required. That was a decision he made...to not pay close attention to the road. Especially someone "new"....it was his responsibility to be extra cautious, alert and aware and ..... he didn't stop at a stop sign. Obviously, in looking at the carnage, likely at a good rate of speed to blow apart a bus. Those passengers didn't stand a chance as he blindsided them. How does NOT adequately punishing him benefit anyone? This benefits the families of the deceased who will get justice for this moment of recklessness that stripped them of their family member. It wasn't a matter of "woops...sorry" here...this was a significant loss of life he created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, mpt said: From driving, I agree. This murderer should not be driving even a golf cart while in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Just now, Alflives said: This murderer should not be driving even a golf cart while in prison. Murder is defined as the purposeful cessation of life. There is no indication that he ran into the bus on purpose; hence why this isn’t murder. So the next time someone runs a stop sign and gets a 150 dollar ticket they should go to prison? Its the same driving error. Murder is murder, running a stop sign is running a stop sign, rape is rape, theft is theft. The same crime needs to be punished the same way every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, mpt said: Jail isn’t supposed to be punishment for breaking the law. Its supposed to remove people from public that are a risk to society. If he’s not driving a car, he’s not a risk. If jail was punishment for breaking the law then everyone whom commits a crime goes to prison; that doesn’t happen. The only ones that go to jail are the people that deem a threat to society. If assaulters and thieves don’t go to jail in our country, then someone who accidentally hurts someone shouldn’t go to prison, when others whom purposefully commit crimes don’t. Not true. Fraudsters, tax evaders etc. go to jail. It is for people who break the law and, depending on the severity of the crime, etc., is meant to not only serve as a deterrent but to detain the person and make them "do the time". Reflect. Lose daily privileges and freedom for awhile so they have served a punishment. Just like the victims of the crash did when their lives were stripped from them in a moment of recklessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 minute ago, mpt said: Murder is defined as the purposeful cessation of life. There is no indication that he ran into the bus on purpose; hence why this isn’t murder. So the next time someone runs a stop sign and gets a 150 dollar ticket they should go to prison? Its the same driving error. Murder is murder, running a stop sign is running a stop sign, rape is rape, theft is theft. The same crime needs to be punished the same way every time. And hence the president of law in this case needs to be set. Lock up this murderer for life. There is no defence for what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, mpt said: So the next time someone runs a stop sign and gets a 150 dollar ticket they should go to prison? Its the same driving error. Murder is murder, running a stop sign is running a stop sign, rape is rape, theft is theft. The same crime needs to be punished the same way every time. OMG, seriously??? If they kill a bunch of people, yes. And the same crime doesn't always result in the same punishment... If you punch someone in a fight, it's an assault. If they die, it's suddenly much more serious. You're undermining these lives here. There was significant loss of life here. This guy was driving a huge rig and on the job. It's different. He had a responsibility to do so in a safe manner. He didn't. The outcome does matter....when people die, then it's a whole bigger issue. Sure, luck plays into that. And he had some very bad luck when he chose to drive in this manner and it resulted in fatalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI5 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Someone in the gym was tellin me they apparently used the wrong guys picture on the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 minute ago, debluvscanucks said: Not true. Fraudsters, tax evaders etc. go to jail. It is for people who break the law and, depending on the severity of the crime, etc., is meant to not only serve as a deterrent but to detain the person and make them "do the time". Reflect. Lose daily privileges and freedom for awhile so they have served a punishment. Just like the victims of the crash did when their lives were stripped from them in a moment of recklessness. Tax evaders don’t go to jail; there is 44 billion dollars in tax evaders in Canada which the government does nothing to enforce except monetary penalities including interest. Fraudsters are doing harm to society with purposeful intent. Yes its unfortunate that lots of people had their lives stripped apart and families destroyed, destroying another life doesn’t make the world any better, and doesn’t provide any justice to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 Quote Attempt to evade or defeat paying taxes: Upon conviction, the taxpayer is guilty of a felony and is subject to other penalties allowed by law, in addition to (1) imprisonment for no more than 5 years, (2) a fine of not more than $250,000 for individuals or $500,000 for corporations, or (3) both penalties, plus the cost ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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