Team identity and team PR slogan ‘Battle’ in question

[oldnews]

28 minutes ago, riffraff said:

Fair enough.

Last point I'll make on the matter - is that the fn league can't have it both ways.

 

Matt Martin jumps one of our rookies - guy who is 5'10" and 180 - 40 lbs smaller and 5 inches shorter than himself.

Our 'enforcer' vows to kill the fkr - in our tunnel, essentially in our dressing room.

The gongshow of a league takes the reported upon comments from media and has a meeting with Gudbranson to make sure he takes his gd salt peter.

 

They want to ballbust the team's old school hockey responses to incidents like this.  At the same time  as they continue to abdicate their responsibility.

 

Enabling, soft-soap responses from them time after time - fines to ingrates like Marchand, two games for intent to injure, nothing for Kadri blind-side hits to the Sedins, and on and on - and around the league as a whole - extreme leniency - and at the same time, attempting to tie the hands of players like Gudbranson.  I'm actually sick and tired of our management group shouldering the bulk of the bullshizz around this stuff.    And it has not gone un-noticed that despite the continued protesting, Benning has actually made this team arguably as tough as most in the league. 

 

This problem is clearly and squarely on the league, the Campbells, the DoPeS, who continue to make both a joke of the standard, but also a joke of the recognition of the impact of concussions on the players' lives.  The only real, possible and effective deterent is in the league's hands - and they are, wadr, a joke.

 

 

[messier's_elbow]

10 hours ago, DeNiro said:

This is honestly ridiculous logic.

 

So we may be without Pettersson for a week, so the only option now is to lose every game? 

 

Yep, forget about the development or pride of any other player...

A week? Hopefully ....We will be lucky if he’s back in the next 3 weeks. Concussions are the worst. I’ve had a few and could be a week or 2 months. Never know...

[189lb enforcers?]

Lots of virtuous posturing on the subject in here and elsewhere. 

 

If you think, then post, that scores are settled in hockey with firsts, then you didn’t play. Some guys settle scores by fighting, sure, but typically the response doesn’t translate into a fist fight.

 

After seeing Bambi drug off the ice, the team, yes the Team, should have responded with hyper physicality and, playing within the rules, run that team, especially it’s less physically capable players, out of the rink. 

 

It wasn't a matter of the team not taking on the culprit and fighting or harassing him. The disgust was due to the lack of ANYTHING resembling a grudge against the opponent, by the team, not from a lack of fighting. This is a myth and from what I’ve read in here, most posters who respect the fighting brand of hockey were not upset at just one or two Canucks, the scrappy ones, but the entire team, for not settling the score by returning the favour.

 

The Canucks did not uphold the ancient Code of do onto others... 

 

This debacle has nothing to do with goons, fighting and wins. It has to do with respect and valour, something this team lacks as an identity. They lack in ways that can’t be taught.

 

The excuse that the entire bench, coaches included, didn’t have their eyes on their star rookie as he was in the corner, says something about the team. If I have to explain that here...

 

Battle, you say? 

 

[riffraff]

18 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Last point I'll make on the matter - is that the fn league can't have it both ways.

 

Matt Martin jumps one of our rookies - guy who is 5'10" and 180 - 40 lbs smaller and 5 inches shorter than himself.

Our 'enforcer' vows to kill the fkr - in our tunnel, essentially in our dressing room.

The gongshow of a league takes the reported upon comments from media and has a meeting with Gudbranson to make sure he takes his gd salt peter.

 

They want to ballbust the team's old school hockey responses to incidents like this.  At the same time  as they continue to abdicate their responsibility.

 

Enabling, soft-soap responses from them time after time - fines to ingrates like Marchand, two games for intent to injure, nothing for Kadri blind-side hits to the Sedins, and on and on - and around the league as a whole - extreme leniency - and at the same time, attempting to tie the hands of players like Gudbranson.  I'm actually sick and tired of our management group shouldering the bulk of the bullshizz around this stuff.    And it has not gone un-noticed that despite the continued protesting, Benning has actually made this team arguably as tough as most in the league. 

 

This problem is clearly and squarely on the league, the Campbells, the DoPeS, who continue to make both a joke of the standard, but also a joke of the recognition of the impact of concussions on the players' lives.  The only real, possible and effective deterent is in the league's hands - and they are, wadr, a joke.

 

 

Wholeheartedly agree.  and good point (Benning toughness build) as an addition to your statement.

 

the leagues handling of it all has been mind boggling.

[189lb enforcers?]

3 minutes ago, riffraff said:

Wholeheartedly agree.  and good point (Benning toughness build) as an addition to your statement.

 

the leagues handling of it all has been mind boggling.

I think that the guy was caught in a situation that I’m sure we’ve all been in out there, where you are stronger and didn’t realize just how much weaker your opponent was until it was over. That thrown-down is tried every game, but rarely ends in such a decided and devastating result. 

 

What I mean is that it usually takes that much energy to push a guy down, but in this case, scrawny EP went down like a twig. I think he was surprised at how well it worked.

 

Did he expect to make dent in the ice with the kids head? I doubt it, but that’s the inherent problem with having a physically immature EP playing.

 

Just imagine EP in the playoffs, if you want to use refs and whatnot as an excuse and deflection from the obvious of his stature being a liability out there. 

 

The reason you don’t see that play result in injury much, despite the repeated efforts in most games, something many of you reading might begin noticing now, is because the opponents are typically matched in strength. 

 

The throwdown was excessive and required a response, for sure, but I don’t want Dmen to let up when they can cream a guy.

 

Creaming a star rookie takes a full measure of guts, but not if it’s the Canucks’ star rookie. 

 

 

[riffraff]

9 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I think that the guy was caught in a situation that I’m sure we’ve all been in out there, where you are stronger and didn’t realize just how much weaker your opponent was until it was over. That thrown-down is tried every game, but rarely ends in such a decided and devastating result. 

 

What I mean is that it usually takes that much energy to push a guy down, but in this case, scrawny EP went down like a twig. I think he was surprised at how well it worked.

 

Did he expect to make dent in the ice with the kids head? I doubt it, but that’s the inherent problem with having a physically immature EP playing.

 

Just imagine EP in the playoffs, if you want to use refs and whatnot as an excuse and deflection from the obvious of his stature being a liability out there. 

 

The reason you don’t see that play result in injury much, despite the repeated efforts in most games, something many of you reading might begin noticing now, is because the opponents are typically matched in strength. 

 

The throwdown was excessive and required a response, for sure, but I don’t want Dmen to let up when they can cream a guy.

 

Creaming a star rookie takes a full measure of guts, but not if it’s the Canucks’ star rookie. 

 

 

I agree the push down is not new to the nhl.

 

i didn’t like how obvious it was he ensured that eps head made it to the ice.  When “the move” finished, mathesons hands were near ice level.

 

i believe he knew full well how easy it would be to manhandle the smaller guy.

 

and he used his stick as a lever........

 

i don’t doubt you are aware of who on the ice you are going to be able to abuse before the warm up is over.

[Nucker 67]

Yes, it is reactionary, but for good reason. The motto this year is apparently "RELENTLESS" and yes, "BATTLE". Okay then. Relentless is what? Being passive?

 

The fact that Green had the gall to say not one Canucks player saw the hit, is a lie. This is Elias Pettersson, a gift from the Hockey Gods, a player every Canucks player should be watching out for. Yes, getting the win was nice, but it came at a great cost. Was it worth it for a non-playoff team? Now, the league knows the Canucks "stars" are open targets, and chances are the Canucks will not react. They've been instructed by their coach not to do anything when stuff like this happens. He says that's not how the game is played anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

24 minutes ago, riffraff said:

I agree the push down is not new to the nhl.

 

i didn’t like how obvious it was he ensured that eps head made it to the ice.  When “the move” finished, mathesons hands were near ice level.

 

i believe he knew full well how easy it would be to manhandle the smaller guy.

 

i don’t doubt you are aware of who on the ice you are going to be able to abuse before the warm up is over.

“You can’t hit what you can’t catch.”

 

- ya, until you finally do and then you make up for lost time!

- every checking player, ever. 

 

This is the way of Hockey. 

 

I dont disagree with you, obviously, but I don’t think he knew how light on his skates EP was until he hit the ice; how awesome of a slam that would be, which I why I say I think he was surprised.

 

Had he mandled EP previously to know how how light he was and thus easily he could pull-off such a display of physical dominance? I don’t recall. We won’t all agree on most things and it’s interesting hearing other respectable perspectives. 

 

These things happen fast. Unless you’ve done it, you can’t really say, but it doesn’t stop posters from weighing in on physical feats which they’ve never even remotely accomplished themselves, to judge others. Some humility goes a long ways there. 

 

By no means am I sticking up for the guy here, just the mechanics of the hit, the throw-down and the result.  I don’t want that kind of spirit to die in the new league, but I don’t want unsportsmanlike behaviour either.

 

Do we want Dmen to let-up and do we want to see an end to Dmen finally and gloriously catching slippery, little guys and brutally finishing off their checks??? No. 

 

Intimidation is a skill and a weapon of which Canadian Hockey owes most of its international success to. Without it, it’s the All Star Game, 82 times a year and people will get bored without the risk element, as we are already noticing. 

 

The Canucks didn’t respond because they weren’t watching out for EP. 

I can’t decide which is worse. 

[189lb enforcers?]

4 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Yes, it is reactionary, but for good reason. The motto this year is apparently "RELENTLESS" and yes, "BATTLE". Okay then. Relentless is what? Being passive?

 

The fact that Green had the gall to say not one Canucks player saw the hit, is a lie. This is Elias Pettersson, a gift from the Hockey Gods, a player every Canucks player should be watching out for. Yes, getting the win was nice, but it came at a great cost. Was it worth it for a non-playoff team? Now, the league knows the Canucks "stars" are open targets, and chances are the Canucks will not react. They've been instructed by their coach not to do anything when stuff like this happens. He says that's not how the game is played anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

To say nobody was carefully watching EP from the bench is disturbing. 

Says it all, really. 

[xereau]

 

Is all I ask.  Even though no one saw what happened on the ice, they knew something happened.  There should have been some kind of uptick in the board play after.  And there was not.  Concerning.

[189lb enforcers?]

What do they Battle for, if not for each other? 

 

Was there even an increase in hits after EP finished impersonating Bambi? 

 

The Canucks’ trademark is to find ways to lose respect from the hockey world.

 

Battle is likely the last word any rival team, player, media or fan would use to describe the Canucks. I think it’s beyond question at this point. 

 

 

[Nucker 67]

Makes me wonder if they'll let Quinn Hughes hang out to dry as well when he joins the team.  

[alt kilgore]

What still upsets me still is the excuse, "no one saw it"

 

Well, how many times do teams, teams with "battle", react to an obvious CLEAN hit?  (Especially on a star player, or rookie, and definitely if its both of those) Hint: A lot. 

 

So, sorry, I just don't buy the excuse..."but but but we didn't have 100 % proof that Matheson did anything wrong, no eye witnesses, so, our hands were tied. Nothing we could do"

 

BS.  Seeing their star, teenager, lying on the ice, as Matheson skates away with a guilty look on his face, should be more than enough 'evidence' to at least warrant a talking to.

[Nucker 67]

^^ and he needed help to even get off the ice and to the room. We saw nothing, they say. That's terrible message to send to star rookies. Earlier in the season he was taking cross checks to the back of the head. No retribution. How must he be feeling? His team doesn't have his back. Where's Tryamkin when they need him?

 

So sick and tired of this team being picked on and them being passive about it. 

[aGENT]

9 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Where's Tryamkin when they need him?

The same Tryamkin people got all offended about the team showing him Pronger video of?

[riffraff]

1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

“You can’t hit what you can’t catch.”

 

- ya, until you finally do and then you make up for lost time!

- every checking player, ever. 

 

This is the way of Hockey. 

 

I dont disagree with you, obviously, but I don’t think he knew how light on his skates EP was until he hit the ice; how awesome of a slam that would be, which I why I say I think he was surprised.

 

Had he mandled EP previously to know how how light he was and thus easily he could pull-off such a display of physical dominance? I don’t recall. We won’t all agree on most things and it’s interesting hearing other respectable perspectives. 

 

These things happen fast. Unless you’ve done it, you can’t really say, but it doesn’t stop posters from weighing in on physical feats which they’ve never even remotely accomplished themselves, to judge others. Some humility goes a long ways there. 

 

By no means am I sticking up for the guy here, just the mechanics of the hit, the throw-down and the result.  I don’t want that kind of spirit to die in the new league, but I don’t want unsportsmanlike behaviour either.

 

Do we want Dmen to let-up and do we want to see an end to Dmen finally and gloriously catching slippery, little guys and brutally finishing off their checks??? No. 

 

Intimidation is a skill and a weapon of which Canadian Hockey owes most of its international success to. Without it, it’s the All Star Game, 82 times a year and people will get bored without the risk element, as we are already noticing. 

 

The Canucks didn’t respond because they weren’t watching out for EP. 

I can’t decide which is worse. 

I agree with everything you said here.  I would think that in the ore game meeting the opposing teams have a talk about EP.  you see his face and physical specs up on the board and as a dman you’re licking your chops while the coach reminds you to as a team to finish your checks on this guy.

 

dman so battle practices all the time.

 

as you say a big part of this was an instance of boy meets man.  But i think what’s key is the stick placement between the legs which acted as lever.  Looked intentional to me and I doubt that as an nhl dman he has never employed this move before in prior levels.

 

most high end athletes have an awareness of body mechanics, weight vs strength.  It becomes muscle memory.

 

it was interesting this weekend after watching the game I spent a couple days on a huge stack of logs poaching for firewood.  14’-30’ all old fir and arbutus....heavy.  I was filtering out between 8” diameter and 16” diameter for easy splitting or no splitting.  I was standing on uneven and sometimes shifting logs (not too smart really but I was careful to check footings). Anyways once your dial in axis points and balancing it’s very easy to maneuver objects at least your own body weight even when not totally planted.  And that’s just average joe me.  An nhl dman could toss a 19 year old all day er’day.

[lmm]

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

Last point I'll make on the matter - is that the fn league can't have it both ways.

 

Matt Martin jumps one of our rookies - guy who is 5'10" and 180 - 40 lbs smaller and 5 inches shorter than himself.

Our 'enforcer' vows to kill the fkr - in our tunnel, essentially in our dressing room.

The gongshow of a league takes the reported upon comments from media and has a meeting with Gudbranson to make sure he takes his gd salt peter.

 

They want to ballbust the team's old school hockey responses to incidents like this.  At the same time  as they continue to abdicate their responsibility.

 

Enabling, soft-soap responses from them time after time - fines to ingrates like Marchand, two games for intent to injure, nothing for Kadri blind-side hits to the Sedins, and on and on - and around the league as a whole - extreme leniency - and at the same time, attempting to tie the hands of players like Gudbranson.  I'm actually sick and tired of our management group shouldering the bulk of the bullshizz around this stuff.    And it has not gone un-noticed that despite the continued protesting, Benning has actually made this team arguably as tough as most in the league. 

 

This problem is clearly and squarely on the league, the Campbells, the DoPeS, who continue to make both a joke of the standard, but also a joke of the recognition of the impact of concussions on the players' lives.  The only real, possible and effective deterent is in the league's hands - and they are, wadr, a joke.

 

 

The problem I see with the Canucks is that they always flirt with the boundries but almost never cross them.

Roger crossed the boundries in 82 and got a statue to prove it.

Most often though they back down just as they hit the line.

Burrows ultimately backed down from Auger instead of maintaining his position and it cost him for the rest of his career.

Torts backed down when the refs called Sestito for 9 minute penalties in back to back games. 

in the end Sestito looks the fool, aided by some TV blowhard, rather than pointing the blame back on the league.

IMO Torts should have pulled his goalie and let Anahiem score 25 goals, then the league looks stupid, but no, Torts backs down then gets himself suspended, the next game.

The Canucks look like they were the bad guys.

Roger had it right IMO because he showed the the refs up.

Again, or previously, Rome gets an unheard of suspension, not a peep from Gillis or Aqua or AV. Burke, Quinn or Neilson would have said something.

That is twice in 3 years the Canucks get unheard of penalties and each time they back down as if they deserved it,

 

I just watched a video of Domi/Probert fight when the league told them, "you fight you get 20 suspension", they fought 27 seconds into the game and both went on to long careers.  The Flyers pushed way over the top in the 70s and won 2 Cups, they never backed down and never apologised. 

The Canucks are patsies, they push a little bit, then back down, bow their heads and say, "sorry, sorry, spank my bum, I/we won't do it again".

 

[oldnews]

2 minutes ago, lmm said:

The problem I see with the Canucks is that they always flirt with the boundries but almost never cross them.

Roger crossed the boundries in 82 and got a statue to prove it.

Most often though they back down just as they hit the line.

Burrows ultimately backed down from Auger instead of maintaining his position and it cost him for the rest of his career.

Torts backed down when the refs called Sestito for 9 minute penalties in back to back games. 

in the end Sestito looks the fool, aided by some TV blowhard, rather than pointing the blame back on the league.

IMO Torts should have pulled his goalie and let Anahiem score 25 goals, then the league looks stupid, but no, Torts backs down then gets himself suspended, the next game.

The Canucks look like they were the bad guys.

Roger had it right IMO because he showed the the refs up.

Again, or previously, Rome gets an unheard of suspension, not a peep from Gillis or Aqua or AV. Burke, Quinn or Neilson would have said something.

That is twice in 3 years the Canucks get unheard of penalties and each time they back down as if they deserved it,

 

I just watched a video of Domi/Probert fight when the league told them, "you fight you get 20 suspension", they fought 27 seconds into the game and both went on to long careers.  The Flyers pushed way over the top in the 70s and won 2 Cups, they never backed down and never apologised. 

The Canucks are patsies, they push a little bit, then back down, bow their heads and say, "sorry, sorry, spank my bum, I/we won't do it again".

 

there may be some truth to that - but we're talking about two entirely different things.

[lmm]

4 minutes ago, oldnews said:

there may be some truth to that - but we're talking about two entirely different things.

not really, Martin/ Stetcher, how is that different from Sestito/Nolan? 

Martin/ Guber, how is that different from Domi/Probert?

 

the league does want it both ways,

Bruins break Raymond's back, give Rome the longest penalty ever in a cup final

Handed both games to the Cali teams, handcuff Gudbranson. (talking about it was Guber's mistake)

 

But the Canucks keep playing into their hand.  THey need a |Pat Quinn at the top and Bobby Clarke on the ice.

 

And stop apologising!!

[oldnews]

3 minutes ago, lmm said:

not really, Martin/ Stetcher, how is that different from Sestito/Nolan? 

Martin/ Guber, how is that different from Domi/Probert?

 

the league does want it both ways,

Bruins break Raymond's back, give Rome the longest penalty ever in a cup final

Handed both games to the Cali teams, handcuff Gudbranson. (talking about it was Guber's mistake)

 

But the Canucks keep playing into their hand.  THey need a |Pat Quinn at the top and Bobby Clarke on the ice.

 

And stop apologising!!

like I said, my entire point/post regarded the NHL's handling/discipline.

 

nothing to do with your viewpoint that the Canucks are 'patsies'. 

I think there's a measure of truth to your point, but it's a different issue entirely than what my post addressed.

 

we are/were talking about two different things.

I'm not apologizing.

you can apologize now lol.