Psycho_Path Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) What I want to see from all these naysayers calling JB trash is the list of deals (trades and signings) that other GMs did that he should have/could have done with the assets he had. The only deal that I really don't like (and really didn't at the time either) was the Prust trade. Also want to add on to the sentiment of McCann's stats being inflated by playing with Crosby. You think he'd have even close to as many points if he was still with the Canucks? I'm also not too pleased that we let Gudbranson go, even though he wasn't really working out here. Then again, he hasn't done much in Pittsburgh yet either (1 point in 10 games, though a +5, which leads all defensemen on his team during that time). Edited March 19, 2019 by Psycho_Path Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 We can't protect both goal tenders in the expansion draft. Will they trade one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 minute ago, appleboy said: We can't protect both goal tenders in the expansion draft. Will they trade one? Have to trade one, and soon. Can’t wait for too long, or the market will be flooded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) i prefer not to look at the things that didn’t work out because, every gm has those. rather i prefer to look at the positive moves JB has made 1 draft picks; petey, boeser, virtanen, gaudette, demko, lind, macewen, juolevi, brisebois, lockwood, woo, tryamkin, dipietro and gadjovich. 2 trades; granlund, motte, sutter, baertschi, dahlen, pearson, leivo, and goldobin. 3 f.a. roussel, beagle, dorsett, hutton, stecher, sautner, chatfield, eriksson, gagner, teves and nilsson they didn’t all work out and too early to tell on others, but not a bad body of work on the rebuid. would billy joe jim bob have done a better job, maybe but he would have those, who wanted others to know that they could do a better job. the rebuild so far has; petey, boeser, bo and maybe leivo as top six forwards. need 2 more. 3rd and 4th lines are okay. hughes, juolevi, woo, stecher and brisebois. need 2 more. demko and dipietro. need 1 more. jim has improved the drafting team and brought good hockey people into the organization. is JB pertfect? no but he is sticking to the plan, him and linden set in place. building through the draft. it will take time for some of the young guys here to reach their true potential, that is why rebuilds take time. this is my opinion to go along side all the other opinions of us cdc gm's Edited March 19, 2019 by smithers joe 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 hour ago, appleboy said: We can't protect both goal tenders in the expansion draft. Will they trade one? Marky's not even under contract for the ED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 32 minutes ago, aGENT said: Marky's not even under contract for the ED. Are you suggesting they will just let him walk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, appleboy said: Are you suggesting they will just let him walk? Where did I say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: Where did I say that? So then we will assume that we will have them both signed if one is not traded. Sorry ,I am a little choked at the overall direction of this club right now. I don't mean to take it out on other fans. Edited March 19, 2019 by appleboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Just now, appleboy said: So then we will assume that we will have them both signed if one is not traded. I'd wager we trade one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 If we don't get the added talent that we need to build a contender through the draft then I feel we are toast. All Jim's trades have done is pi** away draft picks. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, appleboy said: If we don't get the added talent that we need to build a contender through the draft then I feel we are toast. All Jim's trades have done is pi** away draft picks. Again, besides the odd outlier, rebuilds are built predominantly on the backs of top 10-15 picks. How many of those has Jim 'pissed away' ? Exactly. You guys are losing your cheese over largely split hairs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Buy high - Sell low That seems to be Jim's MO. Not that he wanted that, but that is how it has, overall, worked out on the trade/free agent signings. That side of the business is dismissed by some because of his two drafting jackpots. Although even there he has had misses. He is a rookie GM, with not a lot of support. Look at the crowded front office of Toronto when they decided to go for pain. It smells of owner interference. The less actual hockey authorities to counter the owners wishes to have his cake and eat it too. Even Trevor's position, as President was cut and not replaced. The thing is, I don't even know if he has learned his lesson even now. Its almost too late to start stocking picks. We need more, but do we really want to tank another year? By the time any 18 year olds are ready to compete, Bo will be past his prime, so too Marky. And we will have missed making maximum use of Brock and Elias in their first productive years. I don't really care how this team gets back to being a contender just that it does. If JB's 5 level chess that I just can't see, will work, great! We will need a bit of luck though I can see that. Hopefully it will come at this years draft. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kanucks25 Posted March 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, aGENT said: You guys are losing your cheese over largely split hairs. Except they aren't split hairs because every asset counts when you have 30 (soon to be 31) other teams scratching and clawing to achieve the same goal that only is available once a year. It's naive and arrogant to think X doesn't matter when it's thrown away aloofly (like cap space or draft picks). There are other teams out there being a lot more responsible that you have to compete with. I know this will be met with "well what else could we have done?" or "how did X or Y hurt us" or "that's just hindsight" but IMO these are just lazy excuses. Edited March 20, 2019 by kanucks25 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Except they aren't split hairs because every asset counts when you have 30 (soon to be 31) other teams scratching and clawing to achieve the same goal that only is available once a year. It's naive and arrogant to think X doesn't matter when it's thrown away aloofly (like cap space or draft picks). There are other teams out there being a lot more responsible that you have to compete with. I know this will be met with "well what else could we have done?" or "how did X or Y hurt us" or "that's just hindsight" but IMO these are just lazy excuses. 10 hours ago, aGENT said: No GM is going to make 100% correct, hindsight safe moves. What people need to ask themselves is, is the general direction of the club good? Would tweaking a few (largely depth/periphery) moves, drastically alter that? And despite how correct people like to think they surely are, NOBODY can say for certain we're better off or not, without contributions from say Dorsette playing with some of our prospects vs the 3rd he cost. There's literally no way to calculate that. Nobody can win that 'argument' (if you can even call it one). IB4 someone comes in to inform me it's a discussion forum where people talk hockey blah, blah... In an alternate universe we likely have a couple more depth prospects, if we're lucky, maybe even one more decently impactful player like Gaudette vs years of sheltering for the likes of Horvat, Boeser, Hutton, Stecher etc to help their development. There's no way to calculate which is actually 'better' but it's pretty safe to say, the difference between the two methods is negligible enough that it's not worth new, weekly thread, 10+ pages of discussion. Sorry, it doesn't move the needle as much as you like to think it does and has costs you're not otherwise considering. I'm not the one declaring a one size fits all approach. Edited March 20, 2019 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 10 hours ago, aGENT said: There's literally no way to calculate that. 10 hours ago, aGENT said: but it's pretty safe to say, the difference between the two methods is negligible Sounds like you did some calculation there. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 hour ago, aGENT said: Again, besides the odd outlier, rebuilds are built predominantly on the backs of top 10-15 picks. How many of those has Jim 'pissed away' ? Exactly. You guys are losing your cheese over largely split hairs. Canucks have had a grand total of.... ZERO top 10-15 picks under Benning. How is he supposed to piss away what he never had? What championship rebuild was built predominantly on top 10-15 picks? What a nonsense argument. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generational.EP40 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, aGENT said: Again, besides the odd outlier, rebuilds are built predominantly on the backs of top 10-15 picks. How many of those has Jim 'pissed away' ? Exactly. You guys are losing your cheese over largely split hairs. Tbf you’re missing the point but just strictly to answer your response, of the 4 times we’ve had top10-15 picks, he’s missed twice (Virtanen, Juolevi) and struck gold twice (EP, Hughes). The other time being outside of that range you mention where he struck gold again with Boeser at 23. ...point being had JB had more ammunition in the past which he dealt away himself, we’d certainly have a couple more top prospects. You can’t downplay the value of these picks “losing your cheese” etc. Literally all it takes is 1 right pick to change the fortunes of a franchise just as EP has done. I get he’s at the top of the draft, but there’s still very effective players you get after as evident by Tryamkin, Gaudette, Madden, etc. Edited March 20, 2019 by Generational.EP40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generational.EP40 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: Canucks have had a grand total of.... ZERO top 10-15 picks under Benning. How is he supposed to piss away what he never had? What championship rebuild was built predominantly on top 10-15 picks? What a nonsense argument. I don’t think he literally meant between 10-15 overall, but top 10 or top 15 as in 1-10 or 1-15. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: Canucks have had a grand total of.... ZERO top 10-15 picks under Benning. How is he supposed to piss away what he never had? What championship rebuild was built predominantly on top 10-15 picks? What a nonsense argument. I'm guessing he meant 1-15 not literally between 10-15 (10,11,12,13,14,15). e/ too slow Edited March 20, 2019 by kanucks25 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Sounds like you did some calculation there. Seperate points there sugar plum. There's no way to calculate the value of sheltering, mentorship etc provided by vets vs picks of players who we have no idea the team would have taken in those spots. But based on statically averages we could, optimistically, assume a couple more depth prospects and if we're lucky, another Gaudette or so, based on the few picks we are even down (which itself is overblown). Your lot like to make like the rebuild would be all but done by now if only we'd kept those few extra picks, when it's highly improbable they would have been anywhere near that impactful. The probable difference isn't worth the vitriol. And again, ignores the positive impact of maintaining a veteran presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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