stawns Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 10 hours ago, DBronco said: Beagle is an integral cog in the Canucks team, he is not playing being AG. In fact, I'd bet AG is in Utica this year, until injuries hit 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 9 hours ago, luckylager said: Pfffft.. Worse than- Edler Tanev Hughes Stech Joulevi Biega ? Rob. Be honest with us and yourself. There's no way that's not the worst starting D lineup in the NHL. Good thing thing that WILL NOT BE our starting D. Last year at near the start of the year we got a worthy 25th overall ranking league wide on our defense. Not the worst but not far of either. Not sure what QH and Gudbransons full time replacement will do to our depth chart, but you have to think we will get a bump up closer to 20th...maybe even high teens. When you look at NSH, SJ and even some average defense on teams it’s obvious pretty quickly why the low rating. Edler and Tanev at 60% of the time doesn’t cut it as a first pairing and hasn’t for years, and it just goes downhill from there. We finished 9th from the bottom last year, three spots up from the year before, and that’s with Markstrom playing his best and adding EP....but also without the Sedins which and that’s something to be hopeful about. IF Benning can somehow manages to plug a big hole on the RHD and upgrade Hutton then maybe we move up to a bubble playoff defense and our goaltending plus our top 12 forward group which is looking at least middle of the pack now will get us into a wild card spot or even 3rd in our division. Otherwise we will be a lottery team again this year, probably in the 12-14 range... Long summer ahead of us, some chaf trimming to do which has already started by Benning not qualifying everyone. We need a little more, it’s nice to have depth but what we have upfront is still a bit too heavy. Need to somehow swap some of that into our defense and or prospect pool. Signing Gardiner or Myers for more then 6 I think we will regret long term but would definitely go a long way short-medium term. Garndiner could be Elders eventual replacement, Myers would arguably be our best RHD right away. Think WNP has no choice but to try and keep him now that Trouba is gone...other guys could also help us like Stralman or even McQuaid if we want to get bigger and meaner on the 3rd RHD pairing... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, stawns said: Beagle is an integral cog in the Canucks team, he is not playing being AG. In fact, I'd bet AG is in Utica this year, until injuries hit He almost certainly will given he’s not waiver eligible yet and we have too many roster forwards at the moment. Could change if LE is indeed on the way out, not re-signing Granlund helps too. Also AG doesn’t need to play center to make the team either so you never know..and he’s proven he can do well at the AHL level...we will see what training this summer has done for him at camp. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 11 hours ago, DBronco said: Great Job I see it slightly different, but generally a great job I do however see the following -Miller FL1 LW Baertschi FL3 LW -Eriksson over Motte -I struggle with our right wing and am urged to think Sutter as our 2nd RW -also Virtanen over Leivo in the FL3 and FL4 positions -Beagle over Gaudette - also add LW Ethan Keppen as our PFL3 -also think Carson Focht is below Linus Karlsson….. Also seeing Biega at RHD D3 makes me want to puke...………..but I think you are right In saying all the above, they are minor changes, by and large, and I would not argue too much with you on your placements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 9 hours ago, luckylager said: Pfffft.. Worse than- Edler Tanev Hughes Stech Joulevi Biega ? Rob. Be honest with us and yourself. There's no way that's not the worst starting D lineup in the NHL. Good thing thing that WILL NOT BE our starting D. Go have a look many team's rosters with unbiased eyes. Edler and Tanev are good. Stecher is good. Hughes will be great. OJ could be great and will certainly be good. Alex B is a placeholder. Sautner is a legit NHL player. Canucks don't have an elite top pair but they have enough in compare to many teams. I know it is a common malady of a portion of CDC to treat the Canucks as an inferior team but IF Edler and Tanev played 70 plus games each last year, good chance they are in the playoffs. I know that many want to continually place Vancouver in the bottom of the league but they are closer than most of those want to think. Pffft yourself..... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 10 hours ago, kingofsurrey said: Just can't see how JB expects TG to get wins with a set of D like this..... Good teams build from the back end out. Good teams are built in all sorts of ways. Even in Surrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastPast Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said: Go have a look many team's rosters with unbiased eyes. Edler and Tanev are good. Stecher is good. Hughes will be great. OJ could be great and will certainly be good. Alex B is a placeholder. Sautner is a legit NHL player. Canucks don't have an elite top pair but they have enough in compare to many teams. I know it is a common malady of a portion of CDC to treat the Canucks as an inferior team but IF Edler and Tanev played 70 plus games each last year, good chance they are in the playoffs. I know that many want to continually place Vancouver in the bottom of the league but they are closer than most of those want to think. Pffft yourself..... Yes, I think people underestimate how much benefit this team could reap simply from having league average health. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said: Good teams are built in all sorts of ways. Even in Surrey. Good teams build a solid spine. Goaltending / through D / through Centre ice..... Canucks D is in shambles....... I like our goaltending. I think JB was smart to upgrade our C position. Its like i just ordered a Big mac.... and the one i got in the bag is missing the special sauce..... WTF ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Good teams build a solid spine. Goaltending / through D / through Centre ice..... Canucks D is in shambles....... I like our goaltending. I think JB was smart to upgrade our C position. Its like i just ordered a Big mac.... and the one i got in the bag is missing the special sauce..... WTF ???? Ah, not it is not in "shambles". Edler and Tanev are quality NHL Dmen. Stecher has emerged as a very capable NHL Dman. Hughes could be great but will certainly be good. OJ could be very good and will most certainly be good. Do you even look at other teams? WTF? That is directed at you. Canucks at one more top 4 or 6 guy and their D is more than fine for an emerging team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: Ah, not it is not in "shambles". Edler and Tanev are quality NHL Dmen. Stecher has emerged as a very capable NHL Dman. Hughes could be great but will certainly be good. OJ could be very good and will most certainly be good. Do you even look at other teams? WTF? That is directed at you. Canucks at one more top 4 or 6 guy and their D is more than fine for an emerging team. Are you kidding me. Tanev and Edler are made of glass. Both will be lucky if they play 50 games this year... Stecher has emerged as a decent number 4-5 D man. Jewels and Hughes are just kids still trying to learn the NHL game... probably still 2-3 years away from being solid NHL defenders. After that our D is pure AHL quality..... Overall, our D is softer than the spreadable butter the Queen of Surrey buys in Superstore each week..... Is there a team in the NHL with worse D than the Canucks ? What team ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Are you kidding me. Tanev and Edler are made of glass. Both will be lucky if they play 50 games this year... Stecher has emerged as a decent number 4-5 D man. Jewels and Hughes are just kids still trying to learn the NHL game... probably still 2-3 years away from being solid NHL defenders. After that our D is pure AHL quality..... Overall, our D is softer than the spreadable butter the Queen of Surrey buys in Superstore each week..... Is there a team in the NHL with worse D than the Canucks ? What team ? I have no idea why I bother with you sometimes but I guess I find you so utterly at odds with logic, it is fun to engage. You don't measure team D in pro hockey but some twisted individual by individual player ranking, you go be results. In 2018-19 (stats you can Google if you like....), the NHL defensive stats that are most commonly used to assess how a team "defends" is based upon stats like shots allow and so forth. GAA and PK% are also used but a strong (or weak) goalie can have a huge roll there. Last year, in terms of shots allowed the rankings had the following teams allowing more shots than Vancouver: Washington Edmonton Dallas Pittsburgh Philadelphia Winnipeg Buffalo Anaheim Toronto Detroit NY Rangers Chicago Ottawa Using this and many other criteria (again, try Google), you will see the Vancouver team defense was ranked overall about 15th to 18th overall in the NHL. Roughly lower middle of the pack. I know this is inconvenient to your narrative but facts can be like that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said: I have no idea why I bother with you sometimes but I guess I find you so utterly at odds with logic, it is fun to engage. You don't measure team D in pro hockey but some twisted individual by individual player ranking, you go be results. In 2018-19 (stats you can Google if you like....), the NHL defensive stats that are most commonly used to assess how a team "defends" is based upon stats like shots allow and so forth. GAA and PK% are also used but a strong (or weak) goalie can have a huge roll there. Last year, in terms of shots allowed the rankings had the following teams allowing more shots than Vancouver: Washington Edmonton Dallas Pittsburgh Philadelphia Winnipeg Buffalo Anaheim Toronto Detroit NY Rangers Chicago Ottawa Using this and many other criteria (again, try Google), you will see the Vancouver team defense was ranked overall about 15th to 18th overall in the NHL. Roughly lower middle of the pack. I know this is inconvenient to your narrative but facts can be like that. Zepperini - those stats are meaningless when assessing our group of D. You have played more than enough hockey to realize that total shots against is more a reflection of team defense . Forwards and D. It also is very much related to style of offence a team employs. Not sure why i even bother debating with a guy that has zero logic in his posts and just relies on spamming the real debaters on this site.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said: Using this and many other criteria (again, try Google), you will see the Vancouver team defense was ranked overall about 15th to 18th overall in the NHL. Roughly lower middle of the pack. I know this is inconvenient to your narrative but facts can be like that. A year old but this ESPN article ranked our D group at 28th....... seems about right. I really think JB was on the new legalized green medicine the last few years and failed to pull off any kind of any upgrade for our D group. https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/24784519/nhl-ranking-all-31-teams-their-defenseman-group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 2 hours ago, kingofsurrey said: Zepperini - those stats are meaningless when assessing our group of D. You have played more than enough hockey to realize that total shots against is more a reflection of team defense . Forwards and D. It also is very much related to style of offence a team employs. Not sure why i even bother debating with a guy that has zero logic in his posts and just relies on spamming the real debaters on this site.... Defensive stats are meaningless when comparing defensive groupings between teams. Wow. OK. Please inform me, as apparently my life in the game has been insufficient training, as to how you compare defensive groupings across the NHL. Please enlighten! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 2 hours ago, kingofsurrey said: A year old but this ESPN article ranked our D group at 28th....... seems about right. I really think JB was on the new legalized green medicine the last few years and failed to pull off any kind of any upgrade for our D group. https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/24784519/nhl-ranking-all-31-teams-their-defenseman-group So ESPN ranking versus actual performance stats is what you are basing your opinion on. Further, you don't feel that Hughes and OJ are an upgrade. Wow on both. Again, if you only want to take on cherry picked stories versus actual results - why bother with the actual games (where the stats come from) and simply just follow narratives that won't get bogged down with the real world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I'd really like to see Pettersson Miller Boeser Baertschi Horvat Pearson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) On 6/26/2019 at 3:19 PM, Rob_Zepp said: So ESPN ranking versus actual performance stats is what you are basing your opinion on. Further, you don't feel that Hughes and OJ are an upgrade. Wow on both. Again, if you only want to take on cherry picked stories versus actual results - why bother with the actual games (where the stats come from) and simply just follow narratives that won't get bogged down with the real world? I agree that stats can be skewed any way you want and are based on the teams style of play. If a team spends more of their cap on Forwards than D they usually have a better chance of having their D show up lower in the rankings. If a team prefers to play a speed first or fore checking speed game where the forwards are up ice they will show their D as lower in the rankings. Hughes and OJ alone are not an Upgrade at this point. Both are very unproven long term. Hughes looked great last season in his 5 games or so. He certainly can skate but his defensive play has yet to be really challenged over a long season of games and travel. I am hopeful he can have an impact but QH defending on the road against larger NHL players still is a concern for me. Stecher struggles against the bigger players and I am sure QH will as well. But he sure does skate well. Juolevi has had a couple years more time to develop than Hughes and may be at an advantage to make a more immediate impact. He has been injured and to what extent that will limit his play this year we will have to wait and see. The defense still needs at least one addition that can play D. someone that can play against the bigger Forwards in our division and conference. I want someone that can compete with Kopitar in front of the net. Clear Getzlaf out when he wants to stand in front of our net. Move Thornton or any other big body on the penalty kill. Someone who can play a few more minutes so we dont have to play Edler 30 mins a game. I know many are not big on Myers, I would like us to at least have a sniff. There are others out there this year but Gardiner isnt my pick. We have enough D that play small as it is. We need Scott Stevens more than Paul Coffey at this point. Edited June 28, 2019 by mikeyman109 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 There is a shift in the NHL right now. Contenders from last year are scrambling to sign players, and not being able to afford them. They're losing some star players, which could affect their success this coming season. Some teams will be on the downswing. The Canucks are in a position of having a bit of extra cap space, young sensations joining the team from previous high picks (Pettersson, Hughes, Juolevi), and bringing in better quality veteran players (Miller and ?), so they are on the upswing. Playoffs are not out of the question. Markstrom was great last year and I hope he continues that. It is nice to know Demko is at the ready. I'm excited for next season. The Canucks won't be pushed around, and they'll be a little dangerous offensively. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 I would put Francis Perron and Lukas Jasek somewhere above Kole Lind and Will Lockwood. While I have high hopes for both Lind and Lockwood, I think that Perron and Jasek have shown more in their careers with their deployment in the AHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vannuck59 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 On 6/26/2019 at 12:30 AM, Elias Pettersson said: Hughes Myers Edler Tanev Nemeth Stecher This line up if we could fit it under the cap I would say yes to 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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