Justin Trudeau apologizes for wearing brownface during 2001 event at school

[SabreFan1]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Again, not arguing the stupidity or the pattern (or the Schmuck  ) but:

 

blackface

 noun

black·face | \ ˈblak-ˌfās  \

Definition of blackface

 

: dark makeup worn (as by a performer in a minstrel show) in a caricature of the appearance of a black person

 

That's exactly what Trudeau did.  The Minstrel show is in quotes because it's being used as an example and not part of the definition.

Edited September 20, 2019 by SabreFan1

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

 

That's exactly what Trudeau did.  The Minstrel show is in quotes because it's being used as an example and not part of the definition.

Those are brackets, not quotes and no, it isn't. 

[bishopshodan]

4 minutes ago, Shift-4 said:

This is a black mark for JT right now.

This is a fun convo too..

 

I was in a band with a first nations lead singer. His band before was made up of mostly non-white players, they called their band Pale Face ( that name is yet another convo maybe?)

 

However, he was always pointing out the negative and positive references in the words we use.... 

'a black mark'....'pure white, ivory fresh'...'the dark side'....'join the light'...

 

You know, I could go on. But I am always aware of that since those days. Dark and black is used as a reference for evil and dirt. White is often used for purity, cleanliness and light. 

 

I am not saying it is a targeted thing. I understand that we humans are often afraid of the dark in our history....darkness hides the evil that goes bump in the night. 

White is the absence of stain when cleaning such as Ivory soap.

 

Yet, intentional or not, are there subliminal elements that should be taken into consideration?

[riffraff]

57 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

It's just sad to see.

 

I am against this rally cry about cultural appropriation. If you are doing it respectfully I don't see it as discrimination. Costumes, clothing, make up, arts ...whatever. I am also not lasering off the many different cultures that are represented in my extensive tattoos. 

 

What is sad to me is seeing all these daft political parties acting the same way.

 

I spoke with a hardcore conservative yesterday, a good man who runs a school for under privileged children. He started the convo laughing and pointing fingers at JT. He ended the conversation saying that he hopes a karaoke video he was in during a trip to Russia a long time ago never surfaces. It could affect his lucrative career. He admitted that he wished, not unlike himself, that his party wasn't running around beating this drum like he criticises the left for doing.

 

I wonder what the value of an apology is these days. We will find out I suppose. 

Imo an apology will bare more weight when it is personal ie between to parties with history.  A general apology to the masses will never be more than lip service rightly or wrongly.

 

that being said a general apology deserves the chance to grown in its legitimacy.  The proof will be in tangible changes.

 

its up to each of us to get over our egos to allow this.

 

i posted an anecdote in the “betrayal thread” about what an apology means to me if your interested.

[SabreFan1]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Those are brackets, not quotes and no, it isn't. 

Whoops.  Brain fart.  I misspoke.  We're both wrong.  They're parenthesis. 

 

And, yes it is separate from the definition.  That's why it's in parenthesis and not separated by a comma instead.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

Whoops.  Brain fart.  I misspoke.  We're both wrong.  They're parenthesis. 

 

And, yes it is separate from the definition.  That's why it's in parenthesis and not separated by a comma instead.

 

Quote

 

pa·ren·the·sis

/pəˈrenTHəsəs/

Learn to pronounce

noun

 

1. a word, clause, or sentence inserted as an explanation or afterthought into a passage that is grammatically complete without it, in writing usually marked off by curved brackets, dashes, or commas.

   • a pair of round brackets ( ) used to mark off a parenthetical word or phrase.

 

1. •  

     And nope, it still wasn't a 'caricature of a black person' either.

[SabreFan1]

Just now, riffraff said:

Imo an apology will bare more weight when it is personal ie between to parties with history.  A general apology to the masses will never be more than lip service rightly or wrongly.

 

that being said a general apology deserves the chance to grown in its legitimacy.  The proof will be in tangible changes.

 

its up to each of us to get over our egos to allow this.

 

i posted an anecdote in the “betrayal thread” about what an apology means to me if your interested.

 

Trudeau's problem is that he wants to be seen as a paragon of inclusion, acceptance, and tolerance.  When you know that you have a pattern of exactly opposite of that in your not too distant past, you have basically blown up your reputation.

 

In the last few years, he should have found a way to let people know that this was in his past and he now regrets it.  When you're just content in covering it up, your apologies after being discovered just sound very hollow.

 

As an outsider with no skin in the game of whether he falls or not, I'd be more worried about his poor judgement than I would be worried about getting an "outrage high".  That outrage high eventually will wear off for everyone.  Trudeau's poor judgement is the thing that will last.

[SabreFan1]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

1. •  

     And nope, it still wasn't a 'caricature of a black person' either.

Alright.  I've never called them brackets in my life but I'll give you that one. 

 

... and yes it was a caricature.  You see where this is going, right?  Yes it is, no it isn't, yes it is!  No it isn't! 

[Warhippy]

55 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

My favourite was

 

And just like that, Conservatives care about muslims

[SabreFan1]

Just now, Warhippy said:

My favourite was

 

And just like that, Conservatives care about muslims

I wish I saw that one!  I would have posted both. 

[DarthMelvin]

Everyone trying to change the world...one forum at a time lol

[Warhippy]

Just now, SabreFan1 said:

I wish I saw that one!  I would have posted both. 

I love how hypocritical both sides are being myself.  This is finally entertaining.

[aGENT]

10 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

Alright.  I've never called them brackets in my life but I'll give you that one. 

 

... and yes it was a caricature.  You see where this is going, right?  Yes it is, no it isn't, yes it is!  No it isn't! 

Costume =/= caricature. Arab (fictional one at that) =/= black person. But whatever floats your boat.

[SabreFan1]

Just now, Warhippy said:

I love how hypocritical both sides are being myself.  This is finally entertaining.

 

Like I said before, the outrage high will wear off soon enough but unfortunately Canada will still be left with a schmuck as PM.  That party needs to find a new leader after the election is over.

[SabreFan1]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Costume =/= caricature. Arab (fictional one at that) =/= black person. But whatever floats your boat.

Painting yourself totally black at least 3 times is a caricature.  You live in Canada so I know you've met middle easterners.

 

They are nowhere near this dark.  Even in B&W photos.

 

 

 

[riffraff]

16 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

 

Trudeau's problem is that he wants to be seen as a paragon of inclusion, acceptance, and tolerance.  When you know that you have a pattern of exactly opposite of that in your not too distant past, you have basically blown up your reputation.

 

In the last few years, he should have found a way to let people know that this was in his past and he now regrets it.  When you're just content in covering it up, your apologies after being discovered just sound very hollow.

 

As an outsider with no skin in the game of whether he falls or not, I'd be more worried about his poor judgement than I would be worried about getting an "outrage high".  That outrage high eventually will wear off for everyone.  Trudeau's poor judgement is the thing that will last.

Good point.

 

if JT  really wanted to spearhead this “inclusive” movement on a federal level he could have made mention of his past.  It would have done a lot to win over those who see him as a clueless trust fund baby as well as those who he is pandering too.

 

obviously it’s too forward thinking for a politician to do so.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

Painting yourself totally black at least 3 times is a caricature.  You live in Canada so I know you've met middle easterners.

 

They are nowhere near this dark.  Even in B&W photos.

 

 

 

Oh good now we're analyzing photos for 'just how dark' his costume makeup was...  Aladdin is a fictional Middle Eastern/Arabian character. Not black. This is no more 'blackface' than it is 'yellowface'.

[riffraff]

Just now, aGENT said:

Oh good now we're analyzing photos for 'just how dark' his costume makeup was...  Aladdin is a fictional Middle Eastern/Arabian character. Not black. This is no more 'blackface' than it is 'yellowface'.

Maybe black paint was on sale.

[SabreFan1]

1 hour ago, riffraff said:

Good point.

 

if JT  really wanted to spearhead this “inclusive” movement on a federal level he could have made mention of his past.  It would have done a lot to win over those who see him as a clueless trust fund baby as well as those who he is pandering too.

 

obviously it’s too forward thinking for a politician to do so.

 

It would have made for a moving speech/admission.  Something along the lines of, "In my not too distant past, I did some things that were insensitive and hurtful, but I've come to realize that instead of trying to hide what I've done, as the leader of Canada it's time I own up to my past."

Edited September 20, 2019 by SabreFan1

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

 

Like I said before, the outrage high will wear off soon enough but unfortunately Canada will still be left with a schmuck as PM.  That party needs to find a new leader after the election is over.

There's 2 or three options.  But they have to win first.

 

Sadly, he's still the better option of the two.