bree2 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, stawns said: He has progressed steadily so far in his career and always in the bottom 6. IMO he is ready for a top 6 spot and he's a more complete player than Boeser, imo. Again, it's because BB is a good player that he is the most likely candidate for a deal. The return would be substantial and they have the depth to cover the loss. Ultimately it comes down to the fact that they aren't going to be able to sign him anyway.......not without sacrificing depth and becoming the leaves, so why not deal him when his value is high. Jake had an okay year, not super special. it is laughable to think he is ready for top 6 yet. he plays good and then he becomes lazy and just stands around on the ice, i don't call that a complete player, no i think that Coach Green knows exactly where Jake belongs on the ice. Boeser will always be a better player than Jake. Boeser 3 years playing , and Jake 5 years playing!!! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 11 minutes ago, stawns said: He has progressed steadily so far in his career and always in the bottom 6. IMO he is ready for a top 6 spot and he's a more complete player than Boeser, imo. Again, it's because BB is a good player that he is the most likely candidate for a deal. The return would be substantial and they have the depth to cover the loss. Ultimately it comes down to the fact that they aren't going to be able to sign him anyway.......not without sacrificing depth and becoming the leaves, so why not deal him when his value is high. Also the return would not be a substantial as you think. If we’re in such cap trouble like fans think why would anyone give us fair value for Boeser? They wouldn’t. This is actually the worst time to trade him if we were going to. Wait till we clear up some space and he has a more productive season goal wise, then we could see what teams are willing to offer. I don’t see Benning spending much in entertaining offers anyways. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 The upcoming cap crunch has more to do with re-signing Petey and Hughes than it does with overpaying UFA's. Also, the cap recapture penalty on Luongo didn't help either. The fact is Benning has been so good in drafting that he now has to save the money to be able to pay these young superstars. Adding Toffoli has also meant that he has an abundance of riches on the right side which will allow him to trade a young asset for help on defence. Without the drafting of two superstars and without the Toffoli trade we wouldn't be in a cap crunch at all. We could keep Brock and not have to worry about saving $15 million+ in cap space for next year to re-sign Petey and Hughes. Trading Brock makes sense if we can add a key piece to the right side of defence that we currently don't have. Or we can pick up a first round pick to offset the Miller trade. Miller and Toffoli add a huge presence to this team. Basically, they make up our first line and make Petey a better player. Adding Toffoli who is a better fit with Petey allows us to potentially trade Boeser to strengthen other areas of the team. Without Toffoli in the mix we wouldn't even be looking at trading Brock, so potentially trading Brock has nothing to do with Benning overpaying on UFA's. It has everything to do with being so successful in our drafting and trading for a legit right winger who can play on the top line with Petey and who needs to get paid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: All BB does is score goals......but if you’re only going to have one solid skill, that’s the one to have in hockey. He just has to stay healthy. Virtanen is simply the more versatile player at this point (imho). What no one wants to answer is how they pay BB on his next contract without hitting the rest of the team. Even at his QO, they will have to downgrade in many areas and depth and balance wins Cups. If they don't move him and he continues to falter as he has done for two seasons now, then what? You have a player with little trade value and a massive payday coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Also the return would not be a substantial as you think. If we’re in such cap trouble like fans think why would anyone give us fair value for Boeser? They wouldn’t. This is actually the worst time to trade him if we were going to. Wait till we clear up some space and he has a more productive season goal wise, then we could see what teams are willing to offer. I don’t see Benning spending much in entertaining offers anyways. They're not in cap trouble yet, but when they have to qualify BB at $7m+, they're in big trouble. They have depth at wing, so why not move the guy they won't be able to pay in two years and strengthen other areas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Just now, stawns said: What no one wants to answer is how they pay BB on his next contract without hitting the rest of the team. Even at his QO, they will have to downgrade in many areas and depth and balance wins Cups. If they don't move him and he continues to falter as he has done for two seasons now, then what? You have a player with little trade value and a massive payday coming. Will be interesting how Benning handles the situation when the big two ELCs contract end (EP and Hughes). That’ll eat up a good chunk of the freed up space when LE and Luongo’s (and others) cap hits are off the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Adding Toffoli has also meant that he has an abundance of riches on the right side which will allow him to trade a young asset for help on defence. Just remember they only have Toffoli till the end of this season, no one knows where he plays next season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Just now, gurn said: Just remember they only have Toffoli till the end of this season, no one knows where he plays next season. That's the x factor for sure. You don't move BB unless you've got TT locked down 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Also the return would not be a substantial as you think. If we’re in such cap trouble like fans think why would anyone give us fair value for Boeser? They wouldn’t. This is actually the worst time to trade him if we were going to. Wait till we clear up some space and he has a more productive season goal wise, then we could see what teams are willing to offer. I don’t see Benning spending much in entertaining offers anyways. Ideally if we can fit him under the cap the best time to trade Brock would be prior to the expansion draft. Next year he can play on the second line with BO and Pearson. Without the pressure of being on the #1 line he could potentially produce at a higher level, maybe even hitting 30 goals. If that happens I am sure we can trade him for a top 4 right handed Dman or at the very least get a top first round pick in return. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: All BB does is score goals......but if you’re only going to have one solid skill, that’s the one to have in hockey. He just has to stay healthy. Virtanen is simply the more versatile player at this point (imho). And he has declined significantly since his rookie year. He likely wouldn't have hit 20 this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 minute ago, gurn said: Just remember they only have Toffoli till the end of this season, no one knows where he plays next season. Well if we don't re-sign Toffoli then obviously we would have enough cap space to keep Brock. Benning would never trade Brock unless Toffoli was re-signed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: Ideally if we can fit him under the cap the best time to trade Brock would be prior to the expansion draft. Next year he can play on the second line with BO and Pearson. Without the pressure of being on the #1 line he could potentially produce at a higher level, maybe even hitting 30 goals. If that happens I am sure we can trade him for a top 4 right handed Dman or at the very least get a top first round pick in return. The problem is you can't trade him without having a replacement player and TT is probably the best fit. However, they won't be able to keep both Boeser and Toffoli next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 minute ago, stawns said: And he has declined significantly since his rookie year. He likely wouldn't have hit 20 this year. Think it’s all related to health issues. His biggest stumbling block. Much like OJ ( though obviously not to the same extent). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Also the return would not be a substantial as you think. If we’re in such cap trouble like fans think why would anyone give us fair value for Boeser? They wouldn’t. This is actually the worst time to trade him if we were going to. Wait till we clear up some space and he has a more productive season goal wise, then we could see what teams are willing to offer. I don’t see Benning spending much in entertaining offers anyways. And if they wait, who replaces Boeser? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said: Think it’s all related to health issues. His biggest stumbling block. Much like OJ ( though obviously not to the same extent). No argument here. If they don't move him and his decline continues they're in a very bad spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Just now, stawns said: The problem is you can't trade him without having a replacement player and TT is probably the best fit. However, they won't be able to keep both Boeser and Toffoli next season. Yes I agree. It's one or the other. Ideally you'd want to trade Brock when his value is higher but we may not have a choice if we re-sign both Markstrom and Toffoli given the cap will be flat this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Just now, stawns said: They're not in cap trouble yet, but when they have to qualify BB at $7m+, they're in big trouble. They have depth at wing, so why not move the guy they won't be able to pay in two years and strengthen other areas? As I’ve already stated we’ll have 25 million off the books by that point. Cap space will not be an issue by then. What fans should really be debating right now is whether we want to lock Markstrom into a long term 6 million dollar deal. When in the last 10 years only one goalie has won the cup over the age of 30. Or do we want to re-sign an injury prone Tanev to a long term deal just when he’s nearing the end of his prime? These are the tough decisions Benning should be looking at, not whether to trade one of our best offensive players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Just now, DeNiro said: As I’ve already stated we’ll have 25 million off the books by that point. Cap space will not be an issue by then. What fans should really be debating right now is whether we want to lock Markstrom into a long term 6 million dollar deal. When in the last 10 years only one goalie has won the cup over the age of 30. Or do we want to re-sign an injury prone Tanev to a long term deal just when he’s nearing the end of his prime? These are the tough decisions Benning should be looking at, not whether to trade one of our best offensive players. They simply don't have the depth at those positions to lose anyone. Obviously on d they don't and though Demko has had spurts of excellent play, he is clearly not ready to be an NHL starter on a team on the rise. The wing is the only place they can make a sacrifice, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, stawns said: And he has declined significantly since his rookie year. He likely wouldn't have hit 20 this year. He had 16 in 57 games, a 23 goals in 82 game pace in a down year, coming back from injury, with a dying father to worry about. Way too soon to talk about diminishing returns, imo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yes I agree. It's one or the other. Ideally you'd want to trade Brock when his value is higher but we may not have a choice if we re-sign both Markstrom and Toffoli given the cap will be flat this year. My argument is that evidence is telling us that his value might only continue to decline. He's yet to hit 70 games in a season and if he has another season with injuries, he's basically worth nothing as a chip. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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