teepain Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Lazurus said: Boeser Hughes 2nd rnd pick Dahlin Cozens 3rd rnd pick My proposal is better lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 On 11/17/2020 at 6:34 PM, Jimmy McGill said: On 11/17/2020 at 4:57 PM, Lazurus said: Boeser Hughes 2nd rnd pick Dahlin Cozens 3rd rnd pick Buffalo views this as a downgrade It is a matter of time for Buffalo. The name Eichel also has a great deal to do with a possible deal like this. Last year Buffalo missed the playin round by 3 points but they were 21 rst in goals for and 20th in PP percentage While Cozens might make the line up, Boeser has a record to add close to 30 goals if he does play with Eichel and the PP could improve with Hughes and BB. For Buffalo, a team that must win NOW, waiting 2 or 3 years for Cozens could be 2 years too long., If they did make this deal they get great marketing additions, both Boeser and Hughes are runner ups for the Calder and there is still a chance that the Canucks will be dealing with bad contracts limiting big upgrades in the standings so the exchange for a 2nd rnd pick could be a #25 or lower. For the Canucks it is a little bit like one step back to make two steps forward. The loss of Hughes is definitely offset with the addition of Dahlin and the team has had to deal with BB injuries so the addition of Cozens, while not as experienced or proven will have at least 2 years to improve before the Canucks have got all their ducks in a row, bad contracts off the books, it also staggers some contracts a little more and adds some immediate cap relief that can be used later. The immediate Buffalo benefits, added goals for on 5 on 5 and on the PP, established NHL players and they please their super star who is already been expressing how unhappy he is. The Canucks get, IMO, a superior defensive defenceman, not much change in the PP, cap relief for 5 years Actually it is very close to a win win trade, both teams improve for Buffalo, immediately, Vancouver the following season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 On 11/17/2020 at 8:57 AM, Lazurus said: Boeser Hughes 2nd rnd pick Dahlin Cozens 3rd rnd pick @Jimmy McGill Here is the trouble with your comment Jimmy.............."Buffalo sees this as a down grade" It is the proverbial argument of potential vs real life Dahlin vs Hughes is pretty much a saw off, right now..you give up a little offense for a little defense But cozens is unproven, where as Boser is proven and 2nd in Calder voting Yes, the pedigree is in Buffalo's favor, but the bird in the hand argument is in Vancouver's favor With Hall in Buffalo for how long? does Buffalo want to squander that opportunity? There are more stars in the lineup if Buffalo takes the deal IMO, Benning would pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Lazurus said: On 11/17/2020 at 6:34 PM, Jimmy McGill said: On 11/17/2020 at 4:57 PM, Lazurus said: Boeser Hughes 2nd rnd pick Dahlin Cozens 3rd rnd pick Buffalo views this as a downgrade 47 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: @Jimmy McGill Here is the trouble with your comment Jimmy.............."Buffalo sees this as a down grade" It is the proverbial argument of potential vs real life Dahlin vs Hughes is pretty much a saw off, right now..you give up a little offense for a little defense But cozens is unproven, where as Boser is proven and 2nd in Calder voting Yes, the pedigree is in Buffalo's favor, but the bird in the hand argument is in Vancouver's favor With Hall in Buffalo for how long? does Buffalo want to squander that opportunity? There are more stars in the lineup if Buffalo takes the deal IMO, Benning would pass Hall could be add a question mark but he is a one year guy being paid 8 million already, maybe want a raise and going to be 30 by the end of his next contract. Boeser on the other hand would get 8 mil a season for up to 6 years taking him to 30 yrs old and provide more cap certainty for them. That Benning would pass would definitely reveal the lack of confidence in drafting and of a plan for the future. Dahlin IMO is better suited for playoff hockey and in Vancouver he would get more PP opportunities than in Buffalo. One thing is a deal like this would change many fans opinion of his GM decisions to a more positive outlook. This type of trade would be inspiring. IMO it would be very hard to find another win win trade that could help both teams so much, Buffalo gains 40 more goals and Vancouver gets another superstar defenceman for 12 years or more. There just doesn't seem to be another team that could fit this well. You certainly couldn't do a deal with this much impact and fairness to both teams with just about any other team in the league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: @Jimmy McGill Here is the trouble with your comment Jimmy.............."Buffalo sees this as a down grade" It is the proverbial argument of potential vs real life Dahlin vs Hughes is pretty much a saw off, right now..you give up a little offense for a little defense But cozens is unproven, where as Boser is proven and 2nd in Calder voting Yes, the pedigree is in Buffalo's favor, but the bird in the hand argument is in Vancouver's favor With Hall in Buffalo for how long? does Buffalo want to squander that opportunity? There are more stars in the lineup if Buffalo takes the deal IMO, Benning would pass But Cozens is also a C with a ton of upside and Brock unfortunately has a bit of injury history. Most people in the NHL would give an edge to Dahlin as well based on size. I just don't see why Buffalo would do it tbh. Plus I think Boeser has been unfairly treated lately, the guys a gem, we're lucky to have him. Edited November 19, 2020 by Jimmy McGill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 On 11/17/2020 at 10:55 PM, teepain said: On 11/17/2020 at 4:57 PM, Lazurus said: Boeser Hughes 2nd rnd pick Dahlin Cozens 3rd rnd pick My proposal is better lol Boeser gaudette myers dahlin They could not afford that deal, not enough cap space and it would strip the Canucks too much. There is no depth on the farm to replace even Gaudette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: But Cozens is also a C with a ton of upside and Brock unfortunately has a bit of injury history. Most people in the NHL would give an edge to Dahlin as well based on size. I just don't see why Buffalo would do it tbh. Plus I think Boeser has been unfairly treated lately, the guys a gem, we're lucky to have him. I get where you are coming from, but until that potential is actually realized, it is not fact I would say...... Dahlin=/<Hughes Cozens<<<Boeser at this moment but long term Dahlin>/=HUghes Cozens>/=Boeser So, I guess, it is subjective at best.......but at this very moment......I think our 2 are better than their 2 Totally depends on the owners and GM's.................Like I said, I am not sure JB would do it, nor Buffalo for that matter IMO, of course! Edited November 20, 2020 by janisahockeynut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: I get where you are coming from, but until that potential is actually realized, it is not fact I would say...... Dahlin=/<Hughes Cozens<<<Boeser at this moment but long term Dahlin>/=HUghes Cozens>/=Boeser So, I guess, it is subjective at best.......but at this very moment......I think our 2 are better than their 2 Totally depends on the owners and GM's.................Like I said, I am not sure JB would do it, nor Buffalo for that matter IMO, of course! plus, I mean sending Boeser to Buffalo would just be cruel. He's a nice kid, lets not do that to him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teepain Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Would anyone do risto for myers 1 for 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckylager Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, teepain said: Would anyone do risto for myers 1 for 1? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckylager Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Buff wouldn't tho. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 On 11/19/2020 at 4:16 PM, Lazurus said: Hall could be add a question mark but he is a one year guy being paid 8 million already, maybe want a raise and going to be 30 by the end of his next contract. Boeser on the other hand would get 8 mil a season for up to 6 years taking him to 30 yrs old and provide more cap certainty for them. That Benning would pass would definitely reveal the lack of confidence in drafting and of a plan for the future. Dahlin IMO is better suited for playoff hockey and in Vancouver he would get more PP opportunities than in Buffalo. One thing is a deal like this would change many fans opinion of his GM decisions to a more positive outlook. This type of trade would be inspiring. IMO it would be very hard to find another win win trade that could help both teams so much, Buffalo gains 40 more goals and Vancouver gets another superstar defenceman for 12 years or more. There just doesn't seem to be another team that could fit this well. You certainly couldn't do a deal with this much impact and fairness to both teams with just about any other team in the league. BB can be offered 85% of 7.5 (don’t know why you keep saying 8 in your posts, and yes that’s allowed) or 6.375 and if they don’t feel that’s even fair enough - take him to arbitration. The worry about his next contract isn’t nearly as bad as it needs to be. Even with Covid and likely no revenue increases 6.375 might be a fair deal, if not then arbitration it is. He’s still and RFA if they start with that. Also they can structure a deal that only pays him 7.5 for one year, after that 5 or whatever he’s worth ... Still has two years to earn that raise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) On 11/21/2020 at 2:27 PM, IBatch said: BB can be offered 85% of 7.5 (don’t know why you keep saying 8 in your posts, and yes that’s allowed) or 6.375 and if they don’t feel that’s even fair enough - take him to arbitration. The worry about his next contract isn’t nearly as bad as it needs to be. Even with Covid and likely no revenue increases 6.375 might be a fair deal, if not then arbitration it is. He’s still and RFA if they start with that. Also they can structure a deal that only pays him 7.5 for one year, after that 5 or whatever he’s worth ... Still has two years to earn that raise. Maybe I read this wrong, from CP; my mistake was not counting that the amount of his last year was well over the 1 mil, I didn't take the time to read all the way through but I do see a Qualifying offer WILL BE the base salary of 7.5 mil,if they do not offer that much then he becomes a FA. I assumed there would be at least a 5% increase. If he is offered this much it will influence Miller and Horvat's contract demands to be paid similarly especially Horvat combined with Pettersson, Hughes and Demko and the flat cap, which is now even a possible cap reduction, would play havoc with so many making over 7.5 mil in key positions and having no draft picks or prospects to replace them if they are let go, like all the other FA's have been. LENGTH: 3 YEARS EXPIRY STATUS: RFA SIGNING TEAM: Vancouver Canucks VALUE: $17,625,000 C.H.% : 7.21 SIGNING DATE: September 16, 2019 SOURCE: CapFriendly SEASON CLAUSE CAP HIT AAV P. BONUSES S. BONUSES BASE SALARY TOTAL SALARY MINORS SALARY 2019-20 $5,875,000 $5,875,000 $0 $3,300,000 $700,000 $4,000,000 $4,000,000 2020-21 $5,875,000 $5,875,000 $0 $3,000,000 $3,125,000 $6,125,000 $6,125,000 2021-22 $5,875,000 $5,875,000 $0 $0 $7,500,000 $7,500,000 $7,500,000 TOTAL $17,625,000 $17,625,000 $0 $6,300,000 $11,325,000 $17,625,000 $17,625,000 The qualifying offer is calculated from the players base salary (NHL salary minus signing bonus), and at minimum must meet the seasons minimum salary requirements: 110% of the base salary if the base salary is less than or equal to $660,000 105% of the base salary if the base salary is greater than $660,000 or less than $1,000,000. However, this qualifying offer cannot exceed $1,000,000. 100% of the base salary if the base salary is equal to or greater than $1,000,000 Edited December 10, 2020 by Lazurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lazurus said: Maybe I read this wrong, from CP; my mistake was not counting that the amount of his last year was well over the 1 mil, I didn't take the time to read all the way through but I do see a Qualifying offer WILL BE the base salary of 7.5 mil,if they do not offer that much then he becomes a FA. I assumed there would be at least a 5% increase. If he is offered this much it will influence Miller and Horvat's contract demands to be paid similarly especially Horvat combined with Pettersson, Hughes and Demko and the flat cap, which is now even a possible cap reduction, would play havoc with so many making over 7.5 mil in key positions and having no draft picks or prospects to replace them if they are let go, like all the other FA's have been. LENGTH: 3 YEARS EXPIRY STATUS: RFA SIGNING TEAM: Vancouver Canucks VALUE: $17,625,000 C.H.% : 7.21 SIGNING DATE: September 16, 2019 SOURCE: CapFriendly SEASON CLAUSE CAP HIT AAV P. BONUSES S. BONUSES BASE SALARY TOTAL SALARY MINORS SALARY 2019-20 $5,875,000 $5,875,000 $0 $3,300,000 $700,000 $4,000,000 $4,000,000 2020-21 $5,875,000 $5,875,000 $0 $3,000,000 $3,125,000 $6,125,000 $6,125,000 2021-22 $5,875,000 $5,875,000 $0 $0 $7,500,000 $7,500,000 $7,500,000 TOTAL $17,625,000 $17,625,000 $0 $6,300,000 $11,325,000 $17,625,000 $17,625,000 The qualifying offer is calculated from the players base salary (NHL salary minus signing bonus), and at minimum must meet the seasons minimum salary requirements: 110% of the base salary if the base salary is less than or equal to $660,000 105% of the base salary if the base salary is greater than $660,000 or less than $1,000,000. However, this qualifying offer cannot exceed $1,000,000. 100% of the base salary if the base salary is equal to or greater than $1,000,000 Like I said they can offer him 85% of that still - which again is 6.375, it’s in the rules - and take him to arbitration. He’s not “guaranteed” 7.5 - it’s not an automatic. And the Canucks still retain his rights. You need to dig a little deeper yet. Seems fair to me. JB fought his agent tooth and claw. He wanted him to sign a long term deal. Good thing he didn’t right? What I’d suggest is just google his deal. Several sports writers covered the in’s and outs at the time and the information isn’t too hard to find. Edited December 10, 2020 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) On the flip side Buffalo is desperate 27 minutes ago, IBatch said: Like I said they can offer him 85% of that still - which again is 6.375, it’s in the rules - and take him to arbitration. He’s not “guaranteed” 7.5 - it’s not an automatic. And the Canucks still retain his rights. You need to dig a little deeper yet. Seems fair to me. JB fought his agent tooth and claw. He wanted him to sign a long term deal. Good thing he didn’t right? What I’d suggest is just google his deal. Several sports writers covered the in’s and outs at the time and the information isn’t too hard to find. I don't see that 85% and they can retain his rights. Are what you saying is 85% and then it is his choice? At 100% the team retains the right to match. As far as in the rules, I didn't find that in the CBA. You sure you didn't see it under age or limited games played stuff? From what I can read he is a free agent if not offered a qualifying offer, like Jake would have been this year. Actually Boeser's was a really good contract his agent created, really good money for a 3rd year player, well a player with only 140 NHL games, it got the team under the cap and at the time there would have been an expected 15 to 20% increase in the cap making 8 mil or so very manageable for a player of his level, he doesn't really carry the play or make others around him much better like Pettersson, Hughes or even Miller, Horvat doesn't really either but they are close to tier 2 or better star players. If Benning can keep in mind a flat cap or worse for the next 4 years or so then a Boeser type contract is very good for Hughes or Pettersson. With the realignment I wonder if Buffalo will feel the pressure to make even bigger moves, a very tough division. Edited December 10, 2020 by Lazurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 29 minutes ago, Lazurus said: On the flip side Buffalo is desperate I don't see that 85% and they can retain his rights. Are what you saying is 85% and then it is his choice? At 100% the team retains the right to match. As far as in the rules, I didn't find that in the CBA. You sure you didn't see it under age or limited games played stuff? From what I can read he is a free agent if not offered a qualifying offer, like Jake would have been this year. Actually Boeser's was a really good contract his agent created, really good money for a 3rd year player, well a player with only 140 NHL games, it got the team under the cap and at the time there would have been an expected 15 to 20% increase in the cap making 8 mil or so very manageable for a player of his level, he doesn't really carry the play or make others around him much better like Pettersson, Hughes or even Miller, Horvat doesn't really either but they are close to tier 2 or better star players. If Benning can keep in mind a flat cap or worse for the next 4 years or so then a Boeser type contract is very good for Hughes or Pettersson. With the realignment I wonder if Buffalo will feel the pressure to make even bigger moves, a very tough division. I will look later for the link and try to add. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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