Coronavirus outbreak

[old guy]

9 minutes ago, coho8888 said:

What did you think got our infections down in June to single digits?

Every cold and flu virus that has ever been has followed the same trajectory. You get an initial spike for a few weeks followed by a decline. The same thing happened in jurisdictions that locked down or didn't lock down, your emotional reaction notwithstanding.

[skategal]

23 minutes ago, old guy said:

It's the only thing that is actually scientific and was previously understood as such. All this lockdown, masks, and distancing stuff is just knee-jerk hocus-pocus on the advice of very conflicted people like Fauci that was just conjured as a speculation or a hope-and- a- prayer approach. It has certainly not ever been demonstrated to have value and requires leaps of faith that gives some people comfort. It's a false security and in the long run will have no effect on total infections or deaths.

The question is, what will happen now in the future with every cold or flu virus that comes along. Are we now going to permanently alter the nature of society and human interaction into something not just economically damaging but also very deleterious to human emotional and psychological health.

My understanding is that there is no science at this point that supports the concept of herd immunity with COVID 19.  There have been several examples where people had the virus, recovered and have now been reinfected which raises the question of how long if at all people have immunity after illness.  One of the factors of concern in developing a suitable vaccine.  

[coho8888]

11 minutes ago, old guy said:

Every cold and flu virus that has ever been has followed the same trajectory. You get an initial spike for a few weeks followed by a decline. The same thing happened in jurisdictions that locked down or didn't lock down, your emotional reaction notwithstanding.

And we go round and round again.  Now we are comparing Covid to colds and the Flu.  Great.  We have been in Phase 3 now for a month and a half.  Infections are going up (not just total but the positivity rate).  

 

Please stop dispensing this advice.  You are not an expert.  You are not an epidemiologist working on a vaccine or working on the front lines.  I am not an expert either but I have enough common sense to listen to those that are that are actually working on this virus.  

[coho8888]

19 minutes ago, old guy said:

Every cold and flu virus that has ever been has followed the same trajectory. You get an initial spike for a few weeks followed by a decline. The same thing happened in jurisdictions that locked down or didn't lock down, your emotional reaction notwithstanding.

Oh just an initial spike?  I guess some states in the US have had multiple initial spikes too eh?  

[old guy]

There is another absurdity in this that makes one want to give a long agonized scream while pointing the face in the direction of heaven. Apart from the issue of nursing home deaths and how many were or were not covid deaths there is another reality which can't be emphasized enough. It is the fact that for 98% of the people who come in contact with the virus they will have either no symptoms or not much more than a couple of days of sniffles. So not only is this not the second coming of the plague but for most infected people it is an extremely mild cold, if that, much milder than the average cold circulating every year. And yet there is a continued effort to generate hysteria around new cases. New cases are not an issue and will decline on their own schedule regardless of what we do.

So many continue to believe the hype instead of what their own eyes can see. Where are all the people you know who are dying all around you? Where are the hospitals filling to overflowing with sick covid infected patients? It's not happening! It hasn't happened!  It won't happen!

 

The damage to the economy will be ongoing and won't be fully manifested until sometime down the road. Living standards will be affected. South of the border, once stimulus money stops, there will be thousands of people including entire families that previously had a comfortable existence that will be homeless. This is the greatest policy stupidity I have witnessed in my life and it is worldwide. My turn to say "heaven help us"!

 

[old guy]

8 minutes ago, coho8888 said:

Oh just an initial spike?  I guess some states in the US have had multiple initial spikes too eh?  

No, different areas of the country just got their initial spike at different times. Then there is also the appearance of a follow-up spike when increased testing revealed what wasn't revealed before. And then there is the media playing every angle to keep the narrative going.

[old guy]

31 minutes ago, skategal said:

My understanding is that there is no science at this point that supports the concept of herd immunity with COVID 19.

The trajectory of virus infection rates is something that has been understood and accepted in regard to behaviour of cold and flu viruses in the past. Whether you want to consider it science or not, it has been understood.

[bishopshodan]

7 minutes ago, old guy said:

Where are all the people you know who are dying all around you?

I personally know two people that have died. 

Thanks for coming out.

 

BTW, I don't see hype and hysteria. Just normal folk trying to share info and get through this.

The only hysteria I notice is the anti maskers, they are all stressed out, for what reason I couldn't tell you. 

 

 

[old guy]

Just now, bishopshodan said:

BTW, I don't see hype and hysteria.

What? All the stories in the news. All the government policy reactions. The shut down for weeks of so many businesses. Bans on gatherings. Bans on church. Bans on funerals. Suggested or mandated masks and social distancing. On-and-on. Some people demanding even more of such and some politicians threatening more of such along with harsher penalties. But you don't see hysteria. Whether you consider it justified or not, it definitely is hysteria.

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, old guy said:

What? All the stories in the news. All the government policy reactions. The shut down for weeks of so many businesses. Bans on gatherings. Bans on church. Bans on funerals. Suggested or mandated masks and social distancing. On-and-on. Some people demanding even more of such and some politicians threatening more of such along with harsher penalties. But you don't see hysteria. Whether you consider it justified or not, it definitely is hysteria.

No I don't see it.

I can see you haven't really noticed but we are facing a global pandemic. I think Canada is doing really well regarding hysteria. 

[old guy]

Just now, bishopshodan said:

I can see you haven't really noticed but we are facing a global pandemic.

The question is a pandemic of what. We have had pandemics every year forever as cold and flu viruses make their ways around the world infecting millions. The point I made earlier seems to go past you as it does so many. For the vast majority of people infected this is actually a very mild virus. That's why so many who have tested positive and been forced into quarantine have emerged hale and healthy and often without even feeling sick along the way. There is good evidence to suggest that the nursing home deaths attributed to covid are grossly exaggerated. The flu pandemic of 1968 caused about twice the deaths on a per capita basis and the one in 1958 about three times the deaths. If you realize that there are pandemics every year then it's not such a scary word.

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, old guy said:

The question is a pandemic of what. We have had pandemics every year forever as cold and flu viruses make their ways around the world infecting millions. The point I made earlier seems to go past you as it does so many. For the vast majority of people infected this is actually a very mild virus. That's why so many who have tested positive and been forced into quarantine have emerged hale and healthy and often without even feeling sick along the way. There is good evidence to suggest that the nursing home deaths attributed to covid are grossly exaggerated. The flu pandemic of 1968 caused about twice the deaths on a per capita basis and the one in 1958 about three times the deaths. If you realize that there are pandemics every year then it's not such a scary word.

Despite telling you about the two people I know that have passed away, what should concern you is the side affects and long lasting issues people that have 'recovered' are experiencing. They are still learning about this virus. 

Maybe if your points are 'going past you as it does so many'....Have you considered this...maybe its you? maybe you're wrong? 

Do you diversify where you get your info? or are you stuck in the modern aliment of confirmation bias? 

[old guy]

regarding exaggerated covid deaths:

 

Once again, the CDC provides the best case for ending ongoing lockdowns and restrictions. Over the weekend, the mortality data was updated to show that only 6% of deaths related to COVID-19 occurred without other preexisting conditions. In 94% of cases, those who have died with COVID-19 had between two and three preexisting conditions on average.

 

 

It has become policy in many hospitals to test for COVID-19 on admission. Patients coming in with severe chest pain are tested, even if they have no symptoms of the virus. Because of the CARES Act, there are plenty of financial incentives for them to list COVID-19 on a patient’s chart—doing so results in higher levels of reimbursement at a time when hospitals are seeing less traffic due to fear of the virus. Early in the pandemic, some COVID-19 diagnoses were not even confirmed by tests. This led to a large-scale reclassification of deaths in places like New York.

The New York Times Does Accidental Journalism on COVID-19 Testing

Hopefully, some diligent researcher will do what has been done for testing generally, as reported by The New York Times. Testing the samples from deaths listed as COVID-19 since the pandemic began for the ability to replicate and cause an infection would give us a much better idea of when COVID-19 actually contributed to a death. In an interview this morning, Dr. Scott Barbour indicated from his observations at hospitals where he practices that the death count for COVID-19 could be as low as 50% of the current numbers.......

 

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/stacey-lennox/2020/08/31/new-data-from-the-cdc-shows-6-of-deaths-are-due-to-covid-19-alone-n867807

[skategal]

Great, another person to block.  Uneducated viewpoints spreading false and misleading information, just what we need.  

[RUPERTKBD]

Here's a sampling of the headlines on PJ Media:

 

Here's Where Rioters Learn Their Hate: Watch 'Trainer' Say 'All' White People Are 'Racists,' 'Not Human'

 

Rochester Diners Terrorized by BLM, and the Restaurant Sides With the Rioters?

 

DENNIS PRAGER: Leftists Blame America. Decent People Blame Themselves.

 

Antifa/BLM Rioters Now Screaming ‘Death to America’

 

There's also an ad banner at the bottom of the page that says: Join PJ Media is the fight against the radical left

 

Totally unbiased source....

[old guy]

2 hours ago, coho8888 said:

What did you think got our infections down in June to single digits?  Magic? What prevented us from having our hospitals overrun?

So you think the mandated restrictive policies did it. That's a blind belief. A more rational approach would be to compare different states in the US where some had draconian mandates while others no restrictions at all. The ones with no or mild restrictions actually did better. Not saying that was the reason but it negates your assertion.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

"The Covid-19 death toll could be 50% less"

 

According to some "doctor" in the source that the old guy posted.

 

Thing is, you'd still have to explain, exactly how those extra deaths occurred.   Why, in the middle of summer over 1000 Americans were not dieing of Covid-19 a day, but something else killed them.  That it was 100% that something else that did the deed.  You'd need to explain what those something elses were.

 

Good luck with that one.

[coho8888]

3 minutes ago, old guy said:

So you think the mandated restrictive policies did it. That's a blind belief. A more rational approach would be to compare different states in the US where some had draconian mandates while others no restrictions at all. The ones with no or mild restrictions actually did better. Not saying that was the reason but it negates your assertion.

Its pretty hard debating with someone that looks at an empty white board and says its blue.

 

So I won't bother wasting my time anymore.  Take care and have some care for those that are trying to avoid getting infected.  If you choose not to wear a mask, keep your distance out of respect for others.  

[kingofsurrey]

8 minutes ago, coho8888 said:

Its pretty hard debating with someone that looks at an empty white board and says its blue.

 

So I won't bother wasting my time anymore.  Take care and have some care for those that are trying to avoid getting infected.  If you choose not to wear a mask, keep your distance out of respect for others.  

I have no problem when people post rubbish like he is.  I don't need to block him.  I can just ignore him.

I do respect his right for his opinions and his posts really haven't been directly insulting any other poster.

His ideas are insulting in the disregard for the health of fellow citizens.....  but i recognize he has the right to his own opinion, however misguided it may be.

Ignoring him is for sure the way to go. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by kingofsurrey

[old guy]

4 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

"The Covid-19 death toll could be 50% less"

 

According to some "doctor" in the source that the old guy posted.

 

Thing is, you'd still have to explain, exactly how those extra deaths occurred.   Why, in the middle of summer over 1000 Americans were not dieing of Covid-19 a day, but something else killed them.  That it was 100% that something else that did the deed.  You'd need to explain what those something elses were.

 

Good luck with that one.

It's not so hard and has already been explained. People in nursing homes were dying of the usual causes throughout. Earlier, covid did hasten the death of the more fragile and was also falsley given credit for a number of deaths. That's why when you stretch the numbers out over several months that early blip in deaths disappears in the longer perspective and all cause mortality is within the normal range. People will continue to die in nursing homes from the usual causes and when the next winter cold or flu comes along there will be an upward blip for 2-3 months in the death rate. It happens every year.