[Discussion] Canucks should fire Benning and hire Jeff Gorton as GM in the off-season

[wallstreetamigo]

21 minutes ago, joe-max said:

We shouldn't forget that the "overpaid" veterans (Sutter, Beagle, Edler, Roussell, Pearson) played a big role in what was one of the more successful post seasons in franchise history last year. Even Eriksson contributed (a bit).

None of those guys were huge difference makers in the playoff results last year. Demko and Markstrom along with the teams top players carried the water there.

 

The fact that is one of the most successful playoffs in Canucks history is more a reflection of just how poorly this team has been constructed, coached, and managed for a long time.

[FaninMex]

3 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The Oilers had veterans in their lineup. They just had young players at the top of their lineup playing more minutes than they should and crappy vets who couldnt move the needle for their team. Sound familiar?

 

Saying Gaudette will be in Europe is an assumption based on a dislike for the player. Our bottom 6 has about 6 guys who are "energy guys". Winning teams have some skill in their bottom 6 either offensively or defensively. They dont have all guys who play dump and change.

 

Unless Benning is gone, the cap space will very likely be filled with more sub par glue players and this core will get no window to be competitive.

I do not have a dislike for any player. Hockey does not make me emotional like some. I like the strategy in hockey as I like board games like Axis and Allies and such. Roll the dice and run with it. 

I understand what winning teams have. I also understand that in a year or so we will be losing some guys like Beagle. So, if we can get them now they can bond and grow with the team. Getting something for Gaudette is better than nothing. It is a personal prediction based on what I have been saying / seeing from the start of this season. I have many posts throughout the season pointing at big flaws in his game.

 

Your assumption is similar to mine and is based on your opinion solely. I disagree with you and have countered everything you have said. So, to end with another assumption. I think you will be even more upset when Benning is here next year but mildly happy when some of the coaching staff are gone. My prediction for whatever it is worth.

 

 

[FaninMex]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

None of those guys were huge difference makers in the playoff results last year. Demko and Markstrom along with the teams top players carried the water there.

 

The fact that is one of the most successful playoffs in Canucks history is more a reflection of just how poorly this team has been constructed, coached, and managed for a long time.

They were big in our post season. I have NHL.com and rewatched the games. Whatever Roussel said to Reeves that got him that penalty got under their skin. It was the start of the turn around. I strongly believe that we could have won the series if the BLM protests hadn't cancelled the game. We had gotten under their mojo and we were in their heads. That extra day allowed them to recover mentally. They cracked easily and we saw it when the Vegas coach said what he did about Demko.

 

This year for the first 10-12 games it was the overpaid bottom six that carried the team because the top 6 didn't bother to show up.

[joe-max]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

None of those guys were huge difference makers in the playoff results last year. Demko and Markstrom along with the teams top players carried the water there.

 

The fact that is one of the most successful playoffs in Canucks history is more a reflection of just how poorly this team has been constructed, coached, and managed for a long time.

That's oversimplifies and dismisses so many facets that contribute to team success on this level. Especially in the playoffs the line between winning and losing is thin. They could have easily lost one more game to the Wild or the Blues. Would they have won a game 5/7? Who knows?

 

Would Pettersson and Hughes have been able to do their thing if not for Beagle and Sutter taking some of the tough matchups? Would Bo have had the energy and freedom to dance through the Blues if not for his defensively responsible wingers? Did Edler's and Meyer's work in front of the net not contribute to Demko seeing most of the shots? Did Roussell and Beagle's presence in the room not help the youngsters in their first NHL playoffs? Edler had 7 points and was +5, Sutter had 6 in a very defensive role. Pearson, Beagle and Roussel scored 7 goals combined. In the playoffs, where every goal is important, that's something.

 

Saying that any cheap free agent veteran/waiver wire pickup/cap dump would have worked as well is pure speculation and highely unlikely. I'm not saying that all these players are incredibly helpful right now and that their contracts are fantastic, but they are not useless plugs either. Apart from one of them maybe...

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, FaninMex said:

I do not have a dislike for any player. Hockey does not make me emotional like some. I like the strategy in hockey as I like board games like Axis and Allies and such. Roll the dice and run with it. 

I understand what winning teams have. I also understand that in a year or so we will be losing some guys like Beagle. So, if we can get them now they can bond and grow with the team. Getting something for Gaudette is better than nothing. It is a personal prediction based on what I have been saying / seeing from the start of this season. I have many posts throughout the season pointing at big flaws in his game.

 

Your assumption is similar to mine and is based on your opinion solely. I disagree with you and have countered everything you have said. So, to end with another assumption. I think you will be even more upset when Benning is here next year but mildly happy when some of the coaching staff are gone. My prediction for whatever it is worth.

 

 

I am not upset at all. Its very likely Benning and the coaches will still be here next year. That doesnt mean I think thats the right course to take or that the risk of it is too high that he will keep doing the same things he has always done.

 

He cant draft his way out of what he has built. By the time he does, this core will either be too expensive to keep or will have moved on for their own reasons.

 

Regarding Gaudette, his actual numbers other than points were just fine. He wasnt converting chances at the same clip as last year but he was still generating them. 

 

I find it interesting that two arguments for Benning are that he drafts well and he prioritizes character when drafting.

 

Yet now people are saying Gaudette, Virtanen, and Tryamkin are selfish prima donnas, as well as McCann previously. All of those players are now effectively gone for very little in return and people are sayibg Benning made the right choice. If that is true, how exactly does that support him drafting well and getting good character again?

 

 

[FaninMex]

10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I am not upset at all. Its very likely Benning and the coaches will still be here next year. That doesnt mean I think thats the right course to take or that the risk of it is too high that he will keep doing the same things he has always done.

 

He cant draft his way out of what he has built. By the time he does, this core will either be too expensive to keep or will have moved on for their own reasons.

 

Regarding Gaudette, his actual numbers other than points were just fine. He wasnt converting chances at the same clip as last year but he was still generating them. 

 

I find it interesting that two arguments for Benning are that he drafts well and he prioritizes character when drafting.

 

Yet now people are saying Gaudette, Virtanen, and Tryamkin are selfish prima donnas, as well as McCann previously. All of those players are now effectively gone for very little in return and people are sayibg Benning made the right choice. If that is true, how exactly does that support him drafting well and getting good character again?

 

 

I have never said that.

If that was the case why would he get Roussel.

 

I remember as the Grizzlies were leaving town the GM laughing / stating that you cannot win with a bunch of nice guys on the team. So, there is that I guess.

[Odjick the Warrior]

11 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

Yet now people are saying Gaudette, Virtanen, and Tryamkin are selfish prima donnas, as well as McCann previously. All of those players are now effectively gone for very little in return and people are sayibg Benning made the right choice. If that is true, how exactly does that support him drafting well and getting good character again?

 

 

Also since 2016 draft Judd Brackett was running the amateur scouting department so guys like Rathbone and DiPietro were all Judd Brackett picks, in fact a 1/3 of the team next season could be Judd Brackett picks specially if the cap room is minimal then they are going to need all their rookies or prospects to start producing. 

[wallstreetamigo]

For all those out there who credit Benning for Boston becoming a powerhouse through his drafting, check out what Jeff Gorton did there as interim GM for a meager 3 months:

 

 

[wallstreetamigo]

He traded up to get Marchand iirc with two lower picks

[Odjick the Warrior]

Gorton is a good GM in making trades, drafting and basically constructing a team in the cap era and for him to be available specially with the owner James Dolan saying he stocked the team full of talent on his interview with Larry Brooks 

https://nypost.com/2021/05/06/james-dolan-chris-drury-the-right-guy-to-lead-the-rangers/

[King Heffy]

On 5/8/2021 at 1:16 AM, wallstreetamigo said:

He traded up to get Marchand iirc with two lower picks

That definitely solidifies the theory that he has absolutely no integrity or respect for the sport.

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

That definitely solidifies the theory that he has absolutely no integrity or respect for the sport.

You do know Marchand was drafted before he played in the nhl, right?

[wallstreetamigo]

And despite the hate he gets, Marchand is a great hockey player.

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

You do know Marchand was drafted before he played in the nhl, right?

Yeah, but to trade up to take that subhuman piece of garbage really says something about Gorton's character.

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, King Heffy said:

Yeah, but to trade up to take that subhuman piece of garbage really says something about Gorton's character.

Ya, it says he picked an impact top line player in the 3rd round.

[wallstreetamigo]

Marchand is a rat but no one can deny he is an impact player.

[wallstreetamigo]

If Marchand was a Canuck, everyone here would love him.

[King Heffy]

Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

Marchand is a rat but no one can deny he is an impact player.

Yes, but he's still an absolute disgrace to the sport.  Character matters, and Gorton being ok with drafting that waste of oxygen, along with refusing to stand behind his owner when Dolan called out the NHL for its corruption, says a lot about Gorton's manhood, or lack thereof. 

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

Yes, but he's still an absolute disgrace to the sport.  Character matters, and Gorton being ok with drafting that waste of oxygen, along with refusing to stand behind his owner when Dolan called out the NHL for its corruption, says a lot about Gorton's manhood, or lack thereof. 

Marchand, when drafted, was not the rat he is now, nor had he made the Canucks crazy or crying like bitches, which is the reason people here hate him.

 

Honestly, I hate the guy but he is a great player.

[King Heffy]

Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

Marchand, when drafted, was not the rat he is now, nor had he made the Canucks crazy or crying like bitches, which is the reason people here hate him.

 

Honestly, I hate the guy but he is a great player.

Not even Canuck specific, unless you can't tell the difference between Ryan Callahan and an ice cream. Marchand's mother owes the hockey world an apology for giving his dad the time of day.