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The Defense of JB and co

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12 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

It will always be a retool (ever since JB got here) cause a rebuild (to me) is what the California teams are currently doing (or Colorado did) fight for a top 3 pick in a losing season

It's not so much the losing on purpose part but trade your assets. I want top 100 picks.

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19 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Cudo's to the OP who attempted a very ambitious post.  I tried it once myself and it's not easy.

 

I think it's true that if you isolate some of the moves that Benning made like the Sutter trade and Eriksson signing, that at the time, people were happy with them.  All you have to do is check out the comments at the beginning of each of their threads.  

 

To paraphrase the first page of the Sutter thread ....[Sutter was seen as a shutdown centre who could shelter Horvat.  People were predicting up to 50 points.  Sutter was the 3C on Pitt behind Crosby and Malkin and just wasn't playing with good players.  Even so, he put up 21-12-33 in his final year in Pitt.  Much better fit for the Canucks than Bonino (incidentally, Bones is 1 year older than Sutts)]

 

Eriksson.  ["Best right winger to ever play with the Sedins" "Will rejuvenate and extend their careers" People predicting 20-30 goals a year.  Comments were glowing and nobody had anything negative at all to say :lol: ......] from the first 2 pages of Loui's thread... 

 

I honestly think that fan's opinion of JB was torpedoed by the local media who didn't take to the way he came across.  JB isn't the most articulate to say the least while Gillis was very good at selling his vision.  The media still slags him when they can but I've always said that if you put anybody under the microscope, you will find warts

I do enjoy taking on the big topics.

I try to use what actually happened not what the media has spun for the fans.

You are absolutely right the Sutter and Eriksson trades where good at the time and people agreed with them. Some didn't like the term for Eriksson but that was the going term for that UFA class. If he had been good for 4 of those years the term would have been a mute conversation. Nobody predicted the sh!t show that he became and that is on Eriksson.

I honestly believe he came in and said I have my money and term and that is his personality. I honestly believe he doesn't give 2 sh!ts about this team his team mates or this fan base. The only way that I will ever change my mind on him is if he re-tires this season. He can even come out play the bigger person and say he is doing it for the players and management that has accepted his decline. If he did this I would regain my respect I had for him when he first signed with this team.

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6 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

It's not so much the losing on purpose part but trade your assets. I want top 100 picks.

What assets. Who is it you are talking about the players with NMC that JB didn't sign.

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Can we trade our 9th pick plus a prospect for Cernak? Or give our 9th plus schmidt or myers for seth jones? We need a 1st pair impact D that can play defense. Benning should do everything in his power to get that RHD.

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21 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Cudo's to the OP who attempted a very ambitious post.  I tried it once myself and it's not easy.

 

I think it's true that if you isolate some of the moves that Benning made like the Sutter trade and Eriksson signing, that at the time, people were happy with them.  All you have to do is check out the comments at the beginning of each of their threads.  

 

To paraphrase the first page of the Sutter thread ....[Sutter was seen as a shutdown centre who could shelter Horvat.  People were predicting up to 50 points.  Sutter was the 3C on Pitt behind Crosby and Malkin and just wasn't playing with good players.  Even so, he put up 21-12-33 in his final year in Pitt.  Much better fit for the Canucks than Bonino (incidentally, Bones is 1 year older than Sutts)]

 

Eriksson.  ["Best right winger to ever play with the Sedins" "Will rejuvenate and extend their careers" People predicting 20-30 goals a year.  Comments were glowing and nobody had anything negative at all to say :lol: ......] from the first 2 pages of Loui's thread... 

 

I honestly think that fan's opinion of JB was torpedoed by the local media who didn't take to the way he came across.  JB isn't the most articulate to say the least while Gillis was very good at selling his vision.  The media still slags him when they can but I've always said that if you put anybody under the microscope, you will find warts

Fans opinions of him have the benefit of 7 years of hindsight on the actual impact of his moves and decisions though. Comparing what people thought at the time vs what they think now is pretty apples and oranges. People adjust their opinions as new information becomes available. 

 

Benning's negative opinion among a portion of the fanbase is not the media's fault or anyone else's. It's his own fault.

 

If you wonder why the culture of the team is "but x happened otherwise we would have been competing for a cup" and similar excuses for the lack of competitiveness stretching several years now, look no further than the direction from the top. Its literally never Benning's fault to many. The buck stops with him though. He does sound like a guy who has no clue when he speaks to the media most of the time so I really don't blame the media for reporting the inconsistencies in what he says and what he does.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, DefCon1 said:

Can we trade our 9th pick plus a prospect for Cernak? Or give our 9th plus schmidt or myers for seth jones? We need a 1st pair impact D that can play defense. Benning should do everything in his power to get that RHD.

My thoughts on this matter is we need a 1st round pick but we don't need the 9th over all.

Trade with TBL for a defenceman and their first rounder for our 9th over all would make every one happy

Edited by Arrow 1983
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Just now, Arrow 1983 said:

My thoughts on this matter is we need a 1st round pick but we don't need the 9th over all.

Trade our draft pick to TBL for a defenceman and their first rounder for our 9th over all would make every one happy

Except maybe Tampa Bay lol

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Except maybe Tampa Bay lol

I got you

Why wouldn't TBL be happy.

They are going to lose one in the expansion draft if they don't do something and they can't take on cap space 

Edited by Arrow 1983
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Just now, Arrow 1983 said:

?????

Tampa is far more likely to try to keep their young D core in place. It would be cheaper for them to trade an asset to Seattle to guarantee they select a player they want to get rid of.

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Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

Tampa is far more likely to try to keep their young D core in place. It would be cheaper for them to trade an asset to Seattle to guarantee they select a player they want to get rid of.

We could do a trade with Colorado as well maybe for Devon Teows

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Just now, Arrow 1983 said:

What assets. Who is it you are talking about the players with NMC that JB didn't sign.

Shawn Matthias

Markus Granlund

Sven Baertschi (first time)

Brad Richardson

Dan Hamhuis (no trade to your point)

Ben Hutton (probably no return)

Josh Levio

Brandon Sutter (nmc? but who gave him that?)

Oscar Fantenberg

Tanner Pearson

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

My thoughts on this matter is we need a 1st round pick but we don't need the 9th over all.

Trade with TBL for a defenceman and their first rounder for our 9th over all would make every one happy

Yeah I think with this years draft being a crapshoot and lack of scouting due to pandemic, its best to give the 9th pick for a top NHL player similar to Miller trade. TB would probably need to replenish their prospect pool at some point to keep preserve their dominance and also helps them with cap space down the road. Maybe Canucks can give 9th overall, Joulevi and rights to Edler. 

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2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Tampa is far more likely to try to keep their young D core in place. It would be cheaper for them to trade an asset to Seattle to guarantee they select a player they want to get rid of.

There are multiple teams with protection issues Van isn't one of the (thank JB for that)

Not all the teams are going to be able to make moves with Seattle. Seattle isn't going to be a dumping ground. That fan base sees what Vegas has done they are going to want the same

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Just now, Arrow 1983 said:

We could do a trade with Colorado as well maybe for Devon Teows

Colorado is pretty much in the same situation as Tampa. But they are in better cap shape.

 

Neither Tampa or Colorado is likely looking at drafting higher in this crap shoot draft as a high enough priority to trade a good young asset to move up plus lose a good one to Seattle.

 

It makes far more sense to give up their late 1sts to Seattle to have them take an overpaid player they want to get rid of. Cutting out the middle man is cheaper.

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4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Tampa is far more likely to try to keep their young D core in place. It would be cheaper for them to trade an asset to Seattle to guarantee they select a player they want to get rid of.

Seattle could just tell them to give up a 1st and a 2nd in order to get McDonaugh. Or they could trade Cernak to us and get Juolevi, our 9th pick and rights to Edler in order to replace Cernak while keeping their 1st and 2nd to replenish their prospect pool. TB is at a good point to get great assets while most of their players have value and keep being dominant for years to come.

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1 minute ago, Arrow 1983 said:

There are multiple teams with protection issues Van isn't one of the (thank JB for that)

Not all the teams are going to be able to make moves with Seattle. Seattle isn't going to be a dumping ground. That fan base sees what Vegas has done they are going to want the same

First, the Canucks don't have protection problems because outside of a handful of players they have no one worth protecting. Hardly a YAY JB moment there.

 

Having said that, the Canucks are also not the only team who can try to take advantage of the protection issues of other teams.

 

Seattle will absolutely be willing to take on cap dump contracts if the right other assets are involved. I could see them make many deals like that if other GM's are wanting to do so.

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12 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Since 2003 Colorado has missed the playoffs 8 times. Since 2003 Vancouver has missed the playoffs 7 times. 
 

Since 2003 Colorado has won 8 playoff rounds including this year. Since 2003 Vancouver has also won 8 playoff rounds. 

Since 2009 Colorado has picked in the top 10 of the draft 7 times, with 1 player selected first overall and 1 player selected second overall. Since 2009 Vancouver has picked in the top 10 of the draft 6 times, with their highest pick being 5th overall. 

 

Obviously at this moment Colorado has a much more exciting team and has a chance at winning the Cup this year while Vancouver failed to make the playoffs. But if you go back 17 years the success of both teams up until this year is quite similar. Their draft trajectory is also quite similar with Colorado having the luxury of picking much higher in the draft on several occasions since 2009. 
 

I would say Vancouver is around 2 years behind Colorado. The make up of both teams looks similar if you look at the young core of players. MacKinnon makes Colorado a much better team but when he was Pettersson’s age he wasn’t dominating as he is right now. He won the Calder but so did Petey.  MacKinnon didn’t become dominant until his 5th year in the league. He also was a #1 overall pick.  Vancouver has never had the luxury of picking first overall. Nevertheless let’s see where Petey is at in his 5th year. I’m sure he will be a more exciting and better player than he is right now. 
 

At the end of the day the biggest difference for Colorado is they have been able to build a superior team around their young core. Benning hasn’t been able to do that yet. But he has been able to build his young core through the draft similar to Colorado. Let’s see what happens over the next two years. Maybe Benning will surprise us. 

 

How does your timeline look if you all the way back to 1996?  If you're gonna pull out an 18 year time period, you should have no issues extending that period a bit more to 25 years, no?

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1 minute ago, DefCon1 said:

Seattle could just tell them to give up a 1st and a 2nd in order to get McDonaugh. Or they could trade Cernak to us and get Juolevi, our 9th pick and rights to Edler in order to replace Cernak while keeping their 1st and 2nd to replenish their prospect pool. TB is at a good point to get great assets while most of their players have value and keep being dominant for years to come.

And even if Seattle did demand that value (they won't) why would Tampa really care about giving up low 1st and 2nd round picks to shed cap? They are competitive now.

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1 minute ago, Chris12345 said:

Shawn Matthias

Markus Granlund

Sven Baertschi (first time)

Brad Richardson

Dan Hamhuis (no trade to your point)

Ben Hutton (probably no return)

Josh Levio

Brandon Sutter (nmc? but who gave him that?)

Oscar Fantenberg

Tanner Pearson

 

 

Hamhuis NTC was there and gave JB a short list with a few days before trade deadline 

Sven was a good signing bad outcome 

Sutter even with out a NMC not going to get much

Pearson was re-signed not an asset lose

The rest get you maybe low round draft picks 3,4,5,6 rounders 

So what do you think the Canucks lost in those draft picks.

Most players drafted in those rounds don't make teams full time.

Yes there are exceptions but you are betting on very long odds.

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