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The Defense of JB and co

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After reading what I wrote I have found my conclusion.

 

It is my understanding of the re-tool re-build method that we have witness over these years.

 

JB had no choice. He couldn't tear it down. There was nothing to tear it down to (no one to fill those spots)  and nobody he could trade to make it seem like a tear down. So he let the natural progression of the team take place. The contracts he couldn't trade ran out. The core aged and got worse and the benefit was JB could do what he new best, draft young talent. Everything else was a means to ice a team and improve the prospect pool if possible with the little he had to work with all in the name of keeping us the fan engaged. 

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1 hour ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

I don't understand why you're trying so hard to craft an excuse for every single mistake he has made and yet give him full credit for everything he has done well.  When it comes to you explaining Benning you only have two answers: "this is why he's great!" or "that's not his fault!"

 

I do not like Jim Benning.  Never really have.  He has done very poorly in free agency.  He has done very well in drafting.  If he was truly as good as you suggest he is, then he would be lauded as one of the best GMs, and not one of the worst.  If he was as good as you say, then we would have one of the most successful and most entertaining hockey clubs out there.  You're a troll to compare us to the on-ice product of the Colorado Avalanche.  Our team is extremely top-heavy and painful to watch half of the time.

 

I could go on and on about Benning's poor asset management and poor vision.  But I'm sure you have an excuse for everything.  That act is exhausting and gets old quickly.

No one:

Arrow 1983: Jim Benning is actually a good GM

 

At this point JB defenders and haters won’t change their minds so why push it even more? I think Benning is awful too, we can’t change the past and he’s staying for the foreseeable future. Don’t need a new thread every day saying if he’s good or bad right?

 

But at the end of the day, excuses don’t make the playoffs 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Comeback_Kings said:

JB is going to retool all over again, this time with a young core.

It will always be a retool (ever since JB got here) cause a rebuild (to me) is what the California teams are currently doing (or Colorado did) fight for a top 3 pick in a losing season

Edited by ShawnAntoski
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2 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

I don't understand why you're trying so hard to craft an excuse for every single mistake he has made and yet give him full credit for everything he has done well.  When it comes to you explaining Benning you only have two answers: "this is why he's great!" or "that's not his fault!"

 

I do not like Jim Benning.  Never really have.  He has done very poorly in free agency.  He has done very well in drafting.  If he was truly as good as you suggest he is, then he would be lauded as one of the best GMs, and not one of the worst.  If he was as good as you say, then we would have one of the most successful and most entertaining hockey clubs out there.  You're a troll to compare us to the on-ice product of the Colorado Avalanche.  Our team is extremely top-heavy and painful to watch half of the time.

 

I could go on and on about Benning's poor asset management and poor vision.  But I'm sure you have an excuse for everything.  That act is exhausting and gets old quickly.

You say poor asset management what assets. What was he give worth anything that could have improved this team.

I think I will stick with the reality of the situation when judging JB abilities as a gm. 

If the Canucks had Made the playoffs let's say 4-5 times but lost in the 1st or second round would JB be a good or bad GM in your opinion.

The Guy has no chance to be considered as a good GM. By your types. It takes losing to rebuild actually it takes being really bad and picking top 5 to truly rebuild. Every cup Winner of recent times have a top 1st round draft pick. Crosby, Ovi, Stamkos, Kane, Teows, Malkin. MacKinnon. All cup contenders and Stanley cup winners have lost a lot.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Arrow 1983 said:

You say poor asset management what assets. What was he give worth anything that could have improved this team.

I think I will stick with the reality of the situation when judging JB abilities as a gm. 

If the Canucks had Made the playoffs let's say 4-5 times but lost in the 1st or second round would JB be a good or bad GM in your opinion.

The Guy has no chance to be considered as a good GM. By your types. It takes losing to rebuild actually it takes being really bad and picking top 5 to truly rebuild. Every cup Winner of recent times have a top 1st round draft pick. Crosby, Ovi, Stamkos, Kane, Teows, Malkin. MacKinnon. All cup contenders and Stanley cup winners have lost a lot.

 

 

Yeah, the Pittsburgh model - different draft rules (though) but same idea.

Edited by ShawnAntoski
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In defense of Jim Benning..actually that is about the only weak point.  Blueline is still a mess.  Relying still way too much on the supreme goaltending (from a guy that Benning drafted in a later round!) to bail them out.

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JB had a mandate to win now and retool on the fly while the Sedins were still active and under the LInden regime. 

 

Once that ended then the rebuild could really get going. Retooling on the fly is a fools game since the only tradable assets were draft picks but GMJB accepted the challenge and drafted extremely well and tried to restock the teams depth through signings and trades. Sure this didn't work given hindsight and all but movinf forward this team is in a greta position and is gaining the depth through the draft to become a contender for many years to come.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said:

JB had a mandate to win now and retool on the fly while the Sedins were still active and under the LInden regime. 

Well that part of the plan didn't work out well.:lol:  It stunk (piled on losses after that first season.  Worse records in years 2 to 4 than even under coach Tortorella).

Edited by NewbieCanuckFan
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2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Since 2003 Colorado has missed the playoffs 8 times. Since 2003 Vancouver has missed the playoffs 7 times. 
 

Since 2003 Colorado has won 8 playoff rounds including this year. Since 2003 Vancouver has also won 8 playoff rounds. 

Since 2009 Colorado has picked in the top 10 of the draft 7 times, with 1 player selected first overall and 1 player selected second overall. Since 2009 Vancouver has picked in the top 10 of the draft 6 times, with their highest pick being 5th overall. 

 

Obviously at this moment Colorado has a much more exciting team and has a chance at winning the Cup this year while Vancouver failed to make the playoffs. But if you go back 17 years the success of both teams up until this year is quite similar. Their draft trajectory is also quite similar with Colorado having the luxury of picking much higher in the draft on several occasions since 2009. 
 

I would say Vancouver is around 2 years behind Colorado. The make up of both teams looks similar if you look at the young core of players. MacKinnon makes Colorado a much better team but when he was Pettersson’s age he wasn’t dominating as he is right now. He won the Calder but so did Petey.  MacKinnon didn’t become dominant until his 5th year in the league. He also was a #1 overall pick.  Vancouver has never had the luxury of picking first overall. Nevertheless let’s see where Petey is at in his 5th year. I’m sure he will be a more exciting and better player than he is right now. 
 

At the end of the day the biggest difference for Colorado is they have been able to build a superior team around their young core. Benning hasn’t been able to do that yet. But he has been able to build his young core through the draft similar to Colorado. Let’s see what happens over the next two years. Maybe Benning will surprise us. 

 

nicely put

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2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Since 2003 Colorado has missed the playoffs 8 times. Since 2003 Vancouver has missed the playoffs 7 times. 
 

Since 2003 Colorado has won 8 playoff rounds including this year. Since 2003 Vancouver has also won 8 playoff rounds. 

Since 2009 Colorado has picked in the top 10 of the draft 7 times, with 1 player selected first overall and 1 player selected second overall. Since 2009 Vancouver has picked in the top 10 of the draft 6 times, with their highest pick being 5th overall. 

 

Obviously at this moment Colorado has a much more exciting team and has a chance at winning the Cup this year while Vancouver failed to make the playoffs. But if you go back 17 years the success of both teams up until this year is quite similar. Their draft trajectory is also quite similar with Colorado having the luxury of picking much higher in the draft on several occasions since 2009. 
 

I would say Vancouver is around 2 years behind Colorado. The make up of both teams looks similar if you look at the young core of players. MacKinnon makes Colorado a much better team but when he was Pettersson’s age he wasn’t dominating as he is right now. He won the Calder but so did Petey.  MacKinnon didn’t become dominant until his 5th year in the league. He also was a #1 overall pick.  Vancouver has never had the luxury of picking first overall. Nevertheless let’s see where Petey is at in his 5th year. I’m sure he will be a more exciting and better player than he is right now. 
 

At the end of the day the biggest difference for Colorado is they have been able to build a superior team around their young core. Benning hasn’t been able to do that yet. But he has been able to build his young core through the draft similar to Colorado. Let’s see what happens over the next two years. Maybe Benning will surprise us. 

 

The biggest mistake J.B. made was he thought he had more time with the retool/rebuild. He did not anticipate the Pettersson pick and the Hughes pick. That's why he overpaid and signed all those veteran players on the bottom 6 for lengthy contracts. He also thought that he had at least  6 years and therefore the Eriksson contract would not be an issue by the time the prospects can take over. 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

You say poor asset management what assets. What was he give worth anything that could have improved this team.

I think I will stick with the reality of the situation when judging JB abilities as a gm. 

If the Canucks had Made the playoffs let's say 4-5 times but lost in the 1st or second round would JB be a good or bad GM in your opinion.

The Guy has no chance to be considered as a good GM. By your types. It takes losing to rebuild actually it takes being really bad and picking top 5 to truly rebuild. Every cup Winner of recent times have a top 1st round draft pick. Crosby, Ovi, Stamkos, Kane, Teows, Malkin. MacKinnon. All cup contenders and Stanley cup winners have lost a lot.

Maybe you just don't understand what asset management is?  Every transaction has its opportunity cost.  When the Oilers draft McDavid, they chose to give up Eichel.  When they signed McDavid to that monster contract, they probably gave up a decent depth player to the cap.

 

Jim Benning acts like a scout.  In the summers, he sees players like Beagle, Roussel, Eriksson etc. and sees talented players.  I mean, that was poor scouting, but according to you that wasn't his fault either.  In the winters, he sees Tanner Pearson.  Do you know what most others saw?  Cap room, roster spots, and draft picks.  Benning has shown to be a pretty good drafter, and yet he almost never trades for draft picks.  Unless Pearson absolutely ramps it up and revives his career, he is NOT an indispensable player.  He was surely worth a second-round draft pick in a seller-friendly deadline.  Instead he chose to re-sign, which sacrifices both an extra draft pick and a chunk out of our limited cap room.

 

Benning works for an owner who obviously wants the team to make the playoffs each year.  You speak as though Benning intended to rebuild in September.  The bare minimum of a rebuild requires trading for draft picks at the deadline and showing some discipline in free agency to save cap room for the future core.  Benning has never done a rebuild.  "This is year 2 and by our 4th (2017-18) or 5th (2018-19) I expect that we are right there with the elite teams in the league." “The bottom line is our goal is win games and to be competitive to make the playoffs. That’s what we’re here for.” The second quote was from 2018.  Benning wishes we made the playoffs 4-5 times.  God knows he went into each season trying.

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3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Since 2003 Colorado has missed the playoffs 8 times. Since 2003 Vancouver has missed the playoffs 7 times. 
 

Since 2003 Colorado has won 8 playoff rounds including this year. Since 2003 Vancouver has also won 8 playoff rounds. 

Since 2009 Colorado has picked in the top 10 of the draft 7 times, with 1 player selected first overall and 1 player selected second overall. Since 2009 Vancouver has picked in the top 10 of the draft 6 times, with their highest pick being 5th overall. 

 

Obviously at this moment Colorado has a much more exciting team and has a chance at winning the Cup this year while Vancouver failed to make the playoffs. But if you go back 17 years the success of both teams up until this year is quite similar. Their draft trajectory is also quite similar with Colorado having the luxury of picking much higher in the draft on several occasions since 2009. 
 

I would say Vancouver is around 2 years behind Colorado. The make up of both teams looks similar if you look at the young core of players. MacKinnon makes Colorado a much better team but when he was Pettersson’s age he wasn’t dominating as he is right now. He won the Calder but so did Petey.  MacKinnon didn’t become dominant until his 5th year in the league. He also was a #1 overall pick.  Vancouver has never had the luxury of picking first overall. Nevertheless let’s see where Petey is at in his 5th year. I’m sure he will be a more exciting and better player than he is right now. 
 

At the end of the day the biggest difference for Colorado is they have been able to build a superior team around their young core. Benning hasn’t been able to do that yet. But he has been able to build his young core through the draft similar to Colorado. Let’s see what happens over the next two years. Maybe Benning will surprise us. 

 

I really like this comparison and how you laid out the similarities/differences.

 

I'm wondering if someone might do a similar comparison of Van/Col but focus on what picks each team had at available to them in since 2009, what their cap situation was at that time, and what contracts were on the books (and for how long)including contracts with NTC/NMC as I really do believe that although JB has been here for 7 years, at least 2 of those years were simply trying to restock what the previous regime gutted and/or get out from under some previously existing contracts .   

 

I wouldn't mind delving into that comparison myself but I simply don't have the time at the moment.....

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4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Since 2003 Colorado has missed the playoffs 8 times. Since 2003 Vancouver has missed the playoffs 7 times. 
 

Since 2003 Colorado has won 8 playoff rounds including this year. Since 2003 Vancouver has also won 8 playoff rounds. 

Since 2009 Colorado has picked in the top 10 of the draft 7 times, with 1 player selected first overall and 1 player selected second overall. Since 2009 Vancouver has picked in the top 10 of the draft 6 times, with their highest pick being 5th overall. 

 

Obviously at this moment Colorado has a much more exciting team and has a chance at winning the Cup this year while Vancouver failed to make the playoffs. But if you go back 17 years the success of both teams up until this year is quite similar. Their draft trajectory is also quite similar with Colorado having the luxury of picking much higher in the draft on several occasions since 2009. 
 

I would say Vancouver is around 2 years behind Colorado. The make up of both teams looks similar if you look at the young core of players. MacKinnon makes Colorado a much better team but when he was Pettersson’s age he wasn’t dominating as he is right now. He won the Calder but so did Petey.  MacKinnon didn’t become dominant until his 5th year in the league. He also was a #1 overall pick.  Vancouver has never had the luxury of picking first overall. Nevertheless let’s see where Petey is at in his 5th year. I’m sure he will be a more exciting and better player than he is right now. 
 

At the end of the day the biggest difference for Colorado is they have been able to build a superior team around their young core. Benning hasn’t been able to do that yet. But he has been able to build his young core through the draft similar to Colorado. Let’s see what happens over the next two years. Maybe Benning will surprise us. 

 

The only way we can be like COL is if EP does break out after getting a fair medium-long term deal, and in two years when we catch up to their cycle, we trade Horvat (Duchene) and QHs (Barrie) for team needs (theirs was Kadri and futures, ours will likely still be RHD and futures) and it works out.    That team is stacked now as a result of a full re-set.   Maybe it's Miller  and BB i don't know, but they re-set their rebuild.    The most likely scenario was always parts of this core and the next that would get this team back into contention.   

 

The other way is NOT being like COL and somehow having a couple more miracles to wrap this up over the next couple of seasons.   For sure that's the route we go for now, but if it doesn't work then yes, we could end up being like COL, have a new GM that has the balls and patience (by then it will be running very thin), to do something just like this.   Until then i don't think our rebuild is much like theirs.     Two different circumstances for one.     And to follow their path we'd be trading some of this core to go with Podz, EP and QHs.   By then Demko is half way done too.   

 

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