The Defense of JB and co

[Arrow 1983]

Disclaimer To me how you get there doesn't matter as long as you get there. Having the willingness to develop and play the youth when they are ready. 

 

There is an ongoing theme happening in post that I have notice rebuilds have taken a long time and no rebuild is the same. Yes Tor said they where going to tear it down and rebuild and they did. But then it begs the question was the Tavares signing counter productive to that method of rebuild. Sounds to me they said one thing and did the other. JB said they would retool on the fly and try to make the playoffs and they didn't change from that method

In the Canucks circumstances the method changed because of what actually happened. The signings and trades that JB did didn't workout. My point in my last thread  was that JB was able to fall back on what he knew best Drafting and has now drafted a team who I believe is a future Cup contender.

He was and still remains the best decision by FA for this team. Hire a experienced hockey guy who would try and make the playoffs but if it didn't work the organization would still have the right guy to be able to draft the right players which for the most part 80% I would argue has.

 

At no point did JB come into this team and say he was going to tear it down and rebuild. At no point did he tear it down and rebuild. More importantly the reality of the situation is that no GM could have come in to this organization and tear it down. JB was Handcuffed by all the NMC and NTC on the books. He had 2 guys that would have never excepted a trade the Sedins who could have brought the most value in return to the team. He was left with a team that had one prospect Horvat and no one else to take the place of any aging stars. He had Kesler a leader of the core at the time wanting out for no doings of JBs. On top of all else he had an owner who wanted to make the playoffs.

 

So he did what he had to do. He was forced to trade Kesler to Ana (there might have been one other team that Kesler allowed) and got a decent return on, considering the circumstances. That Kesler trade lead to Sutter who is still on this team (Kesler is retired) and Sutter at the time was an up and coming 2nd line center who just didn't for some reason fulfill his potential (check his Pitt stats from 2014-15 prior to coming here and his age when we acquired him) I think people forget that this trade on paper looked like a slam dunk for the Canucks. It looked like they were re-acquiring Kesler at a younger age.

 

He was Hired in 2014 and signed a starting goaltender in Ryan Miller. Brought in a top 6 winger in Vrbate brought in toughness with Dorsett and took a chance on a young guy in Linden Vey. They made the playoffs and lost in the first round. Miller worked out Vrbata as well and Dorsett well he was playing well till he got injured.

 

So he kept on trying to make the playoffs

 

He signed one of the best UFAs of his draft class at the time (Eriksson).

 

He signed a top 6 forward in Thomas Vanak.

 

Can JB be faulted for Dorsetts injury. Then he tried to replace him with Ferland and now he is injured. Can he be blamed for his injury. Some might say he was concussion prone to those I ask you, do you not think that JB and the organization didn't get clearance from Ferlands doctor and the team doctors. Is JB suppose to be a medical expert as well.

 

Can JB be blamed that Eriksson fell off a cliff. At the time of this signing, Eriksson was a top 6 forward and many call him one of the best 2 way wingers in the league at the time. Some said the contract might come back on them in the final year or 2 but nobody predicted what actually happen to Eriksson. The truth is nobody knows what happen to that whole class of UFAs. 

 

Can JB be faulted that Sutter who was 25 years old well playing with Pitt got 21g 12a and never realized his potential as a 2nd line center.

 

Can JB be faulted for Rousel who on most nights refuses to bring toughness and for great portions of games is invisible.

 

JB has always stuck to his plan to make the playoffs every year and circumstances has made him rely on his experience at the draft table. Moreover, it is the coaching and accountability in the dressing room that needed to be addressed. It is finally being addressed that those that don't produce don't dress and it is Green that is bringing that culture to the dressing room due in part the fact that the youth are ready to earn and take jobs from Vets who have let complacent set in and this is only able to happen because of how well JB has drafted.

 

I would also say that JB has down better than average in trades. He was able to pick up Miller and Schmidt who have both worked out. Traded what seem to be at the time an older Bonino for a younger up and coming 2nd line center who didn't work out as excepted but it is the risk you take when trading for younger developing prospects. Traded Erik Gubranson for Tanner Pearson. Traded Del-Zotto for Luke Schenn. Acquired Leivo for Carcone (who the heck is he) And Finally traded for a top 6 forward to help give them a push to the playoffs that everyone seems to love and wishes that JB could have re-signed in Toffoli. (that's right people everyone that wishes that he had re-signed has to give JB credit for that trade it has been one of the best trade deadline deals in Canucks history). He even managed to trade two players far pass their primes in Hansen and Burrows for a couple decent prospect that didn't pan out.

He has acquired all these players but is criticized for not being able to move players with NMC and NTC that he had nothing to do with.

 

Along the way, Benning has tried to fill the cupboards with prospects by trading lower round draft picks for guys who where a little more developed. We all know that a GM can't fill a whole roster with UFAs in the cap era so what was he suppose to do. There was no prospects in the system and the Canucks where required to ice a team. This fan base actually I correct myself this season ticket fan base those that actually matter to the business of the Canucks would have never excepted icing a AHL team of nobodies (don't believe me look back to the late 90s when the Canucks last truly stunk Vancouver if not for john McCaw would have lost this team and people wouldn't be able to complain about JB and co so thank you McCaw) I do mean nobodies as our AHL team was bad when JB took over. So he did what any GM would do he hedged his bets by trading lower round draft picks where he felt he might be able to get someone that could help the team. But during this time and not till the Miller trade did he trade a first round pick. JB understood the odds. The Odds are that most players drafted after the first round don't make the NHL and the ones that do most of those don't play more than 500 games. So JB made the bet and in the long run might have lost 1 guy that might play more than 500 games in the NHL.

 

Usually I have a conclusion to most of my posts but I feel this is long enough and lots to digest. So If you got to this point I thank you for reading the whole thing and i hope you enjoyed. cheers.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Arrow 1983

[Arrow 1983]

After reading what I wrote I have found my conclusion.

 

It is my understanding of the re-tool re-build method that we have witness over these years.

 

JB had no choice. He couldn't tear it down. There was nothing to tear it down to (no one to fill those spots)  and nobody he could trade to make it seem like a tear down. So he let the natural progression of the team take place. The contracts he couldn't trade ran out. The core aged and got worse and the benefit was JB could do what he new best, draft young talent. Everything else was a means to ice a team and improve the prospect pool if possible with the little he had to work with all in the name of keeping us the fan engaged. 

[Comeback_Kings]

JB is going to retool all over again, this time with a young core.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

I don't understand why you're trying so hard to craft an excuse for every single mistake he has made and yet give him full credit for everything he has done well.  When it comes to you explaining Benning you only have two answers: "this is why he's great!" or "that's not his fault!"

 

I do not like Jim Benning.  Never really have.  He has done very poorly in free agency.  He has done very well in drafting.  If he was truly as good as you suggest he is, then he would be lauded as one of the best GMs, and not one of the worst.  If he was as good as you say, then we would have one of the most successful and most entertaining hockey clubs out there.  You're a troll to compare us to the on-ice product of the Colorado Avalanche.  Our team is extremely top-heavy and painful to watch half of the time.

 

I could go on and on about Benning's poor asset management and poor vision.  But I'm sure you have an excuse for everything.  That act is exhausting and gets old quickly.

[ken kaniff]

1 hour ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

I don't understand why you're trying so hard to craft an excuse for every single mistake he has made and yet give him full credit for everything he has done well.  When it comes to you explaining Benning you only have two answers: "this is why he's great!" or "that's not his fault!"

 

I do not like Jim Benning.  Never really have.  He has done very poorly in free agency.  He has done very well in drafting.  If he was truly as good as you suggest he is, then he would be lauded as one of the best GMs, and not one of the worst.  If he was as good as you say, then we would have one of the most successful and most entertaining hockey clubs out there.  You're a troll to compare us to the on-ice product of the Colorado Avalanche.  Our team is extremely top-heavy and painful to watch half of the time.

 

I could go on and on about Benning's poor asset management and poor vision.  But I'm sure you have an excuse for everything.  That act is exhausting and gets old quickly.

No one:

Arrow 1983: Jim Benning is actually a good GM

 

At this point JB defenders and haters won’t change their minds so why push it even more? I think Benning is awful too, we can’t change the past and he’s staying for the foreseeable future. Don’t need a new thread every day saying if he’s good or bad right?

 

But at the end of the day, excuses don’t make the playoffs 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

I don't understand why you're trying so hard to craft an excuse for every single mistake he has made and yet give him full credit for everything he has done well.  When it comes to you explaining Benning you only have two answers: "this is why he's great!" or "that's not his fault!"

 

I do not like Jim Benning.  Never really have.  He has done very poorly in free agency.  He has done very well in drafting.  If he was truly as good as you suggest he is, then he would be lauded as one of the best GMs, and not one of the worst.  If he was as good as you say, then we would have one of the most successful and most entertaining hockey clubs out there.  You're a troll to compare us to the on-ice product of the Colorado Avalanche.  Our team is extremely top-heavy and painful to watch half of the time.

 

I could go on and on about Benning's poor asset management and poor vision.  But I'm sure you have an excuse for everything.  That act is exhausting and gets old quickly.

Since 2003 Colorado has missed the playoffs 8 times. Since 2003 Vancouver has missed the playoffs 7 times. 
 

Since 2003 Colorado has won 8 playoff rounds including this year. Since 2003 Vancouver has also won 8 playoff rounds. 

Since 2009 Colorado has picked in the top 10 of the draft 7 times, with 1 player selected first overall and 1 player selected second overall. Since 2009 Vancouver has picked in the top 10 of the draft 6 times, with their highest pick being 5th overall. 

 

Obviously at this moment Colorado has a much more exciting team and has a chance at winning the Cup this year while Vancouver failed to make the playoffs. But if you go back 17 years the success of both teams up until this year is quite similar. Their draft trajectory is also quite similar with Colorado having the luxury of picking much higher in the draft on several occasions since 2009. 
 

I would say Vancouver is around 2 years behind Colorado. The make up of both teams looks similar if you look at the young core of players. MacKinnon makes Colorado a much better team but when he was Pettersson’s age he wasn’t dominating as he is right now. He won the Calder but so did Petey.  MacKinnon didn’t become dominant until his 5th year in the league. He also was a #1 overall pick.  Vancouver has never had the luxury of picking first overall. Nevertheless let’s see where Petey is at in his 5th year. I’m sure he will be a more exciting and better player than he is right now. 
 

At the end of the day the biggest difference for Colorado is they have been able to build a superior team around their young core. Benning hasn’t been able to do that yet. But he has been able to build his young core through the draft similar to Colorado. Let’s see what happens over the next two years. Maybe Benning will surprise us. 

 

[ShawnAntoski]

5 hours ago, Comeback_Kings said:

JB is going to retool all over again, this time with a young core.

It will always be a retool (ever since JB got here) cause a rebuild (to me) is what the California teams are currently doing (or Colorado did) fight for a top 3 pick in a losing season

Edited June 3, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[Arrow 1983]

2 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

I don't understand why you're trying so hard to craft an excuse for every single mistake he has made and yet give him full credit for everything he has done well.  When it comes to you explaining Benning you only have two answers: "this is why he's great!" or "that's not his fault!"

 

I do not like Jim Benning.  Never really have.  He has done very poorly in free agency.  He has done very well in drafting.  If he was truly as good as you suggest he is, then he would be lauded as one of the best GMs, and not one of the worst.  If he was as good as you say, then we would have one of the most successful and most entertaining hockey clubs out there.  You're a troll to compare us to the on-ice product of the Colorado Avalanche.  Our team is extremely top-heavy and painful to watch half of the time.

 

I could go on and on about Benning's poor asset management and poor vision.  But I'm sure you have an excuse for everything.  That act is exhausting and gets old quickly.

You say poor asset management what assets. What was he give worth anything that could have improved this team.

I think I will stick with the reality of the situation when judging JB abilities as a gm. 

If the Canucks had Made the playoffs let's say 4-5 times but lost in the 1st or second round would JB be a good or bad GM in your opinion.

The Guy has no chance to be considered as a good GM. By your types. It takes losing to rebuild actually it takes being really bad and picking top 5 to truly rebuild. Every cup Winner of recent times have a top 1st round draft pick. Crosby, Ovi, Stamkos, Kane, Teows, Malkin. MacKinnon. All cup contenders and Stanley cup winners have lost a lot.

 

 

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, Arrow 1983 said:

You say poor asset management what assets. What was he give worth anything that could have improved this team.

I think I will stick with the reality of the situation when judging JB abilities as a gm. 

If the Canucks had Made the playoffs let's say 4-5 times but lost in the 1st or second round would JB be a good or bad GM in your opinion.

The Guy has no chance to be considered as a good GM. By your types. It takes losing to rebuild actually it takes being really bad and picking top 5 to truly rebuild. Every cup Winner of recent times have a top 1st round draft pick. Crosby, Ovi, Stamkos, Kane, Teows, Malkin. MacKinnon. All cup contenders and Stanley cup winners have lost a lot.

 

 

Yeah, the Pittsburgh model - different draft rules (though) but same idea.

Edited June 3, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[NewbieCanuckFan]

In defense of Jim Benning..actually that is about the only weak point.  Blueline is still a mess.  Relying still way too much on the supreme goaltending (from a guy that Benning drafted in a later round!) to bail them out.

[Zhukini]

His teams amateur scouting is quite good. His teams pro scouting is not.

[GB5]

JB had a mandate to win now and retool on the fly while the Sedins were still active and under the LInden regime. 

 

Once that ended then the rebuild could really get going. Retooling on the fly is a fools game since the only tradable assets were draft picks but GMJB accepted the challenge and drafted extremely well and tried to restock the teams depth through signings and trades. Sure this didn't work given hindsight and all but movinf forward this team is in a greta position and is gaining the depth through the draft to become a contender for many years to come.

[ShawnAntoski]

19 minutes ago, Zhukini said:

His teams amateur scouting is quite good. His teams pro scouting is not.

Yeah, I wonder which of AGM or who is in charge of this department ?

[smithers joe]

i thought this post was going to be about JB's defense? he has failed to draft or trade for a top notch defense core. we still don't know how juolevi, rathbone or woo will turn out. schmidt was a good pick up and myers has been a tower some nights. he tried to aquire OEL last off season. i think it would have been a mistake but he was surely looking for a replacement for edler. quinn should be fine going forward, but the team lacks that bieksa type d-man it needs.

i'm hoping JB can package his 1st pick + for a young bieksa.  we have to be harder to play against.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

11 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said:

JB had a mandate to win now and retool on the fly while the Sedins were still active and under the LInden regime. 

Well that part of the plan didn't work out well.  It stunk (piled on losses after that first season.  Worse records in years 2 to 4 than even under coach Tortorella).

Edited June 3, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Sbriggs]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Since 2003 Colorado has missed the playoffs 8 times. Since 2003 Vancouver has missed the playoffs 7 times. 
 

Since 2003 Colorado has won 8 playoff rounds including this year. Since 2003 Vancouver has also won 8 playoff rounds. 

Since 2009 Colorado has picked in the top 10 of the draft 7 times, with 1 player selected first overall and 1 player selected second overall. Since 2009 Vancouver has picked in the top 10 of the draft 6 times, with their highest pick being 5th overall. 

 

Obviously at this moment Colorado has a much more exciting team and has a chance at winning the Cup this year while Vancouver failed to make the playoffs. But if you go back 17 years the success of both teams up until this year is quite similar. Their draft trajectory is also quite similar with Colorado having the luxury of picking much higher in the draft on several occasions since 2009. 
 

I would say Vancouver is around 2 years behind Colorado. The make up of both teams looks similar if you look at the young core of players. MacKinnon makes Colorado a much better team but when he was Pettersson’s age he wasn’t dominating as he is right now. He won the Calder but so did Petey.  MacKinnon didn’t become dominant until his 5th year in the league. He also was a #1 overall pick.  Vancouver has never had the luxury of picking first overall. Nevertheless let’s see where Petey is at in his 5th year. I’m sure he will be a more exciting and better player than he is right now. 
 

At the end of the day the biggest difference for Colorado is they have been able to build a superior team around their young core. Benning hasn’t been able to do that yet. But he has been able to build his young core through the draft similar to Colorado. Let’s see what happens over the next two years. Maybe Benning will surprise us. 

 

nicely put

[Maddogy]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Since 2003 Colorado has missed the playoffs 8 times. Since 2003 Vancouver has missed the playoffs 7 times. 
 

Since 2003 Colorado has won 8 playoff rounds including this year. Since 2003 Vancouver has also won 8 playoff rounds. 

Since 2009 Colorado has picked in the top 10 of the draft 7 times, with 1 player selected first overall and 1 player selected second overall. Since 2009 Vancouver has picked in the top 10 of the draft 6 times, with their highest pick being 5th overall. 

 

Obviously at this moment Colorado has a much more exciting team and has a chance at winning the Cup this year while Vancouver failed to make the playoffs. But if you go back 17 years the success of both teams up until this year is quite similar. Their draft trajectory is also quite similar with Colorado having the luxury of picking much higher in the draft on several occasions since 2009. 
 

I would say Vancouver is around 2 years behind Colorado. The make up of both teams looks similar if you look at the young core of players. MacKinnon makes Colorado a much better team but when he was Pettersson’s age he wasn’t dominating as he is right now. He won the Calder but so did Petey.  MacKinnon didn’t become dominant until his 5th year in the league. He also was a #1 overall pick.  Vancouver has never had the luxury of picking first overall. Nevertheless let’s see where Petey is at in his 5th year. I’m sure he will be a more exciting and better player than he is right now. 
 

At the end of the day the biggest difference for Colorado is they have been able to build a superior team around their young core. Benning hasn’t been able to do that yet. But he has been able to build his young core through the draft similar to Colorado. Let’s see what happens over the next two years. Maybe Benning will surprise us. 

 

The biggest mistake J.B. made was he thought he had more time with the retool/rebuild. He did not anticipate the Pettersson pick and the Hughes pick. That's why he overpaid and signed all those veteran players on the bottom 6 for lengthy contracts. He also thought that he had at least  6 years and therefore the Eriksson contract would not be an issue by the time the prospects can take over. 

 

 

 

 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

2 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

You say poor asset management what assets. What was he give worth anything that could have improved this team.

I think I will stick with the reality of the situation when judging JB abilities as a gm. 

If the Canucks had Made the playoffs let's say 4-5 times but lost in the 1st or second round would JB be a good or bad GM in your opinion.

The Guy has no chance to be considered as a good GM. By your types. It takes losing to rebuild actually it takes being really bad and picking top 5 to truly rebuild. Every cup Winner of recent times have a top 1st round draft pick. Crosby, Ovi, Stamkos, Kane, Teows, Malkin. MacKinnon. All cup contenders and Stanley cup winners have lost a lot.

Maybe you just don't understand what asset management is?  Every transaction has its opportunity cost.  When the Oilers draft McDavid, they chose to give up Eichel.  When they signed McDavid to that monster contract, they probably gave up a decent depth player to the cap.

 

Jim Benning acts like a scout.  In the summers, he sees players like Beagle, Roussel, Eriksson etc. and sees talented players.  I mean, that was poor scouting, but according to you that wasn't his fault either.  In the winters, he sees Tanner Pearson.  Do you know what most others saw?  Cap room, roster spots, and draft picks.  Benning has shown to be a pretty good drafter, and yet he almost never trades for draft picks.  Unless Pearson absolutely ramps it up and revives his career, he is NOT an indispensable player.  He was surely worth a second-round draft pick in a seller-friendly deadline.  Instead he chose to re-sign, which sacrifices both an extra draft pick and a chunk out of our limited cap room.

 

Benning works for an owner who obviously wants the team to make the playoffs each year.  You speak as though Benning intended to rebuild in September.  The bare minimum of a rebuild requires trading for draft picks at the deadline and showing some discipline in free agency to save cap room for the future core.  Benning has never done a rebuild.  "This is year 2 and by our 4th (2017-18) or 5th (2018-19) I expect that we are right there with the elite teams in the league." “The bottom line is our goal is win games and to be competitive to make the playoffs. That’s what we’re here for.” The second quote was from 2018.  Benning wishes we made the playoffs 4-5 times.  God knows he went into each season trying.

[Fanuck]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Since 2003 Colorado has missed the playoffs 8 times. Since 2003 Vancouver has missed the playoffs 7 times. 
 

Since 2003 Colorado has won 8 playoff rounds including this year. Since 2003 Vancouver has also won 8 playoff rounds. 

Since 2009 Colorado has picked in the top 10 of the draft 7 times, with 1 player selected first overall and 1 player selected second overall. Since 2009 Vancouver has picked in the top 10 of the draft 6 times, with their highest pick being 5th overall. 

 

Obviously at this moment Colorado has a much more exciting team and has a chance at winning the Cup this year while Vancouver failed to make the playoffs. But if you go back 17 years the success of both teams up until this year is quite similar. Their draft trajectory is also quite similar with Colorado having the luxury of picking much higher in the draft on several occasions since 2009. 
 

I would say Vancouver is around 2 years behind Colorado. The make up of both teams looks similar if you look at the young core of players. MacKinnon makes Colorado a much better team but when he was Pettersson’s age he wasn’t dominating as he is right now. He won the Calder but so did Petey.  MacKinnon didn’t become dominant until his 5th year in the league. He also was a #1 overall pick.  Vancouver has never had the luxury of picking first overall. Nevertheless let’s see where Petey is at in his 5th year. I’m sure he will be a more exciting and better player than he is right now. 
 

At the end of the day the biggest difference for Colorado is they have been able to build a superior team around their young core. Benning hasn’t been able to do that yet. But he has been able to build his young core through the draft similar to Colorado. Let’s see what happens over the next two years. Maybe Benning will surprise us. 

 

I really like this comparison and how you laid out the similarities/differences.

 

I'm wondering if someone might do a similar comparison of Van/Col but focus on what picks each team had at available to them in since 2009, what their cap situation was at that time, and what contracts were on the books (and for how long)including contracts with NTC/NMC as I really do believe that although JB has been here for 7 years, at least 2 of those years were simply trying to restock what the previous regime gutted and/or get out from under some previously existing contracts .   

 

I wouldn't mind delving into that comparison myself but I simply don't have the time at the moment.....

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Since 2003 Colorado has missed the playoffs 8 times. Since 2003 Vancouver has missed the playoffs 7 times. 
 

Since 2003 Colorado has won 8 playoff rounds including this year. Since 2003 Vancouver has also won 8 playoff rounds. 

Since 2009 Colorado has picked in the top 10 of the draft 7 times, with 1 player selected first overall and 1 player selected second overall. Since 2009 Vancouver has picked in the top 10 of the draft 6 times, with their highest pick being 5th overall. 

 

Obviously at this moment Colorado has a much more exciting team and has a chance at winning the Cup this year while Vancouver failed to make the playoffs. But if you go back 17 years the success of both teams up until this year is quite similar. Their draft trajectory is also quite similar with Colorado having the luxury of picking much higher in the draft on several occasions since 2009. 
 

I would say Vancouver is around 2 years behind Colorado. The make up of both teams looks similar if you look at the young core of players. MacKinnon makes Colorado a much better team but when he was Pettersson’s age he wasn’t dominating as he is right now. He won the Calder but so did Petey.  MacKinnon didn’t become dominant until his 5th year in the league. He also was a #1 overall pick.  Vancouver has never had the luxury of picking first overall. Nevertheless let’s see where Petey is at in his 5th year. I’m sure he will be a more exciting and better player than he is right now. 
 

At the end of the day the biggest difference for Colorado is they have been able to build a superior team around their young core. Benning hasn’t been able to do that yet. But he has been able to build his young core through the draft similar to Colorado. Let’s see what happens over the next two years. Maybe Benning will surprise us. 

 

The only way we can be like COL is if EP does break out after getting a fair medium-long term deal, and in two years when we catch up to their cycle, we trade Horvat (Duchene) and QHs (Barrie) for team needs (theirs was Kadri and futures, ours will likely still be RHD and futures) and it works out.    That team is stacked now as a result of a full re-set.   Maybe it's Miller  and BB i don't know, but they re-set their rebuild.    The most likely scenario was always parts of this core and the next that would get this team back into contention.   

 

The other way is NOT being like COL and somehow having a couple more miracles to wrap this up over the next couple of seasons.   For sure that's the route we go for now, but if it doesn't work then yes, we could end up being like COL, have a new GM that has the balls and patience (by then it will be running very thin), to do something just like this.   Until then i don't think our rebuild is much like theirs.     Two different circumstances for one.     And to follow their path we'd be trading some of this core to go with Podz, EP and QHs.   By then Demko is half way done too.