iinatcc Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Kenny Powers said: https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/coyotes-winners-ekman-larsson-trade-with-canucks not a fun read It's not a fun read indeed but ... Edited December 30, 2022 by iinatcc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) Funny thing even if the 9th pick turned out to be a bust, Canucks would have still lost the trade. The cap space would have been valuable on it's own. In Sportsnet Canucks Central, the folks there predicted that if Canucks didn't do this trade. They could have signed John Klingberg and Evan Rodrigues during the offseason. You could argue Garland + OEL on stats along is better than Klingberg + Rodrigues (i think it's just more or less even). But the contracts of Klingberg + Rodrigues would still be favorable to this team over Garland + OEL long term. And both fill the need the team's "win now" mode but could easily backtrack since it's easier to offload Klingberg + Rodrigues than Garland + OEL. Edited December 30, 2022 by iinatcc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 3 hours ago, iinatcc said: Funny thing even if the 9th pick turned out to be a bust, Canucks would have still lost the trade. The cap space would have been valuable on it's own. In Sportsnet Canucks Central, the folks there predicted that if Canucks didn't do this trade. They could have signed John Klingberg and Evan Rodrigues during the offseason. You could argue Garland + OEL on stats along is better than Klingberg + Rodrigues (i think it's just more or less even). But the contracts of Klingberg + Rodrigues would still be favorable to this team over Garland + OEL long term. And both fill the need the team's "win now" mode but could easily backtrack since it's easier to offload Klingberg + Rodrigues than Garland + OEL. Klingberg wouldn't have been signing a 1 year deal with us. Rod wouldn't have signed the same deal he did to play on COL either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyu Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 On 12/27/2022 at 4:52 AM, iinatcc said: The Draft for Boston was kind of underwhelming but they made it up next year with David Pastrnak. Considering they made to the finals once since and are likely going to win the President's trophy this season, the mistake made here was not a blow to the organization. It just goes to show GM's are allowed to make mistakes as long as the other moves they make more than makes up their mistakes. Tampa also has had quite a few misses in their 1st round picks but were able to hit it in other areas where their 1st round mistakes didn't matter at all as they won back to back cups. The problem with Benning is not just this move but all the other mistakes he made compounded together leading to this trade being the absolute backbreaker for the team. Not trying to defend Benning because yes, ultimately the mistakes caught up to him. But I will say that he did a decent job up until 2020 in building up the core. Yes, he missed on 2016 draft and the first round in 2014 should have been better. Re-signing green was the last of his mistakes that eventually got him fired. But i wonder what JB would have done with Miller and Horvat situatuon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, jyu said: Not trying to defend Benning because yes, ultimately the mistakes caught up to him. But I will say that he did a decent job up until 2020 in building up the core. Yes, he missed on 2016 draft and the first round in 2014 should have been better. Re-signing green was the last of his mistakes that eventually got him fired. But i wonder what JB would have done with Miller and Horvat situatuon. Decent job, nahh, he failed to have cap space available when it was needed so he crippled the core and continues to cripple the core with antics like this deal Edited December 30, 2022 by Timråfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) Benning was such an idiot and total failure. This stupid trade was just the icing to screw the Canucks. this trade like many other moves drafts picks and signings just screwed this club for years and years. no foresight vision or plan I feel bad for any team fans that hires this total pos in any capacity. he will be remembered as one of the worst gm this club has ever had. He was Francescos spineless mumbling pet. Edited December 30, 2022 by combover 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHL97OneTimer Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) As much as that trade sucked, it could have worked out better. People here were pretty high on Garland and were hopeful with OEL. Despite OEL tapering off, there was hope that he would get his scoring back based on being surrounded by better talent than in Arizona. Losing those other contracts was good.....but not necessary with only one year left. So hindsight is 20-20 and yes this was not a good trade for us given the cap space used up, but we have to be fair in that it could have worked out better just as easily. Unless the Canucks are taking a run at retooling (ugh), I'm not too worried about OEL's contract. The real nail in the coffin is Miller's contract moving forward. I think we're all resigned to the fact that this will not be a contender team so the Miller contract will likely haunt us for most of another decade. Myers and OEL contracts aren't great but they're not atrociously bad (partly based on cost, partly based on # years left and the timing of them). Miller's contract has the potential to be atrociously bad for a number of years however given the number of years ahead of us. Edited December 30, 2022 by NHL97OneTimer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 38 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said: As much as that trade sucked, it could have worked out better. People here were pretty high on Garland and were hopeful with OEL. Despite OEL tapering off, there was hope that he would get his scoring back based on being surrounded by better talent than in Arizona. Losing those other contracts was good.....but not necessary with only one year left. So hindsight is 20-20 and yes this was not a good trade for us given the cap space used up, but we have to be fair in that it could have worked out better just as easily. Unless the Canucks are taking a run at retooling (ugh), I'm not too worried about OEL's contract. The real nail in the coffin is Miller's contract moving forward. I think we're all resigned to the fact that this will not be a contender team so the Miller contract will likely haunt us for most of another decade. Myers and OEL contracts aren't great but they're not atrociously bad (partly based on cost, partly based on # years left and the timing of them). Miller's contract has the potential to be atrociously bad for a number of years however given the number of years ahead of us. No beed for hindsight when it was as clear as it was back then. One year of bad contracts only. A small player and a long expensive contract. How anyone could think putting Petey, as thin, with Hughes, Hogz and a few other small players as a good idea is beyond me. Stecher was forced of the team and he was a good RD, just because people thought he couldn't handle the big boys in Vegas. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 3 hours ago, aGENT said: Klingberg wouldn't have been signing a 1 year deal with us. Rod wouldn't have signed the same deal he did to play on COL either. It's not like the Ducks are a contender either. I think the deal Klingberg would have gotten with the Canucks would look similar to his deal with the Ducks than OEL's contract. I mean it's not like Benning is still the GM. If he was then yes Benning would have signed Klingberg to 8.5 x 7 telling the media he's a franchise dman. Rodrigues get 2 mil for 1 year, I doubt he gets something significantly different signing with Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyu Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 4 hours ago, Timråfan said: Decent job, nahh, he failed to have cap space available when it was needed so he crippled the core and continues to cripple the core with antics like this deal Remove your bias and go back to 2020. The cap was unavailable because of certain virus nobody anticipated. He just had to wait one year to get 12 mill off the books and yet jumped the gun on a trade that crippled the cap structure in the middle of covid induced flat cap era. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 1 minute ago, jyu said: Remove your bias and go back to 2020. The cap was unavailable because of certain virus nobody anticipated. He just had to wait one year to get 12 mill off the books and yet jumped the gun on a trade that crippled the cap structure in the middle of covid induced flat cap era. Benning used every cent of cap space and that is what I’m talking about. What has that to do with bias in any form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyu Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Just now, Timråfan said: Benning used every cent of cap space and that is what I’m talking about. What has that to do with bias in any form? Almost all teams use up every cent of the cap. So every team mismanaged their cap? you are anti benning. Don’t act naive my Swedish friend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 21 minutes ago, jyu said: Almost all teams use up every cent of the cap. So every team mismanaged their cap? you are anti benning. Don’t act naive my Swedish friend. Well, if a mid/low team not capable to reach playoff or higher use every cap dollar they don’t have any flexibility to get the best player available when they get available. It’s an intelligent strategy to leave at least 5 to 15 mill in cap space to be ready. I hope you know that Benning talked about a window when the core would be ready to lift. When the window open is the time to use up everything. Benning didn’t follow his own timeline… Do you think that is intelligent? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Benning had a bunch of cap space available for this season, and more for next. The new guys spent the space that J.B. left. Not that J.B. did that great a job, but he did leave space for these years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Gurn said: Benning had a bunch of cap space available for this season, and more for next. The new guys spent the space that J.B. left. Not that J.B. did that great a job, but he did leave space for these years. if that was the case then why did Rutherford suggest the team had cap problems. Not absolving this management team either but let's not pretend this trade is a backbreaker for the team cap wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, iinatcc said: Rutherford suggest the team had cap problems. Built his own reason for not doing enough. Re-signed Brock and signed Mik= $11.4 mill. Mik has worked out, and Boesser is doing better than most think. But it does show that JR/PA had cap space, left by J.B., whether we agree with what they did with it or not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, iinatcc said: It's not like the Ducks are a contender either. I think the deal Klingberg would have gotten with the Canucks would look similar to his deal with the Ducks than OEL's contract. I mean it's not like Benning is still the GM. If he was then yes Benning would have signed Klingberg to 8.5 x 7 telling the media he's a franchise dman. Rodrigues get 2 mil for 1 year, I doubt he gets something significantly different signing with Vancouver It's not about them being a contender. He played musical chairs and lost. There were no teams left with cap to sign him, and so he signed a 1 year deal to try and cash in this coming summer, while likely be traded to s contender this TDL. He'll be looking for a Myers-like deal +/- $6x6 (if not more with inflation), this summer. Rod took a cheap 1 year to play on a contender. If he doesn't re-up there, he's likely looking for ~$3x3-4 years. Edited December 30, 2022 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 30 minutes ago, Gurn said: Built his own reason for not doing enough. Re-signed Brock and signed Mik= $11.4 mill. Mik has worked out, and Boesser is doing better than most think. But it does show that JR/PA had cap space, left by J.B., whether we agree with what they did with it or not. Well, the team need players everywhere and Myers/OEL took the defence cap and run away with it. We already have a 1st LD so we didn’t need OEL. the 2nd LD should have been much cheaper. To compare cost for needed wingers with beeded defence isn’t right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyu Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Timråfan said: Well, if a mid/low team not capable to reach playoff or higher use every cap dollar they don’t have any flexibility to get the best player available when they get available. It’s an intelligent strategy to leave at least 5 to 15 mill in cap space to be ready. I hope you know that Benning talked about a window when the core would be ready to lift. When the window open is the time to use up everything. Benning didn’t follow his own timeline… Do you think that is intelligent? I didn’t say he is intelligent. He screwed up his own timeline. my comment was about his work up until 2020 leading to the bubble run. you are talking about moves after the bubble run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 8 minutes ago, jyu said: I didn’t say he is intelligent. He screwed up his own timeline. my comment was about his work up until 2020 leading to the bubble run. you are talking about moves after the bubble run What? Pearson, Myers, Beagle etc was before bubble run. When Benning should have gone for the 900k players he went for players earning millions. Ferland ouch, no insurance still Benning signed him to that awful contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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