[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[smithers joe]

11 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Boudreau gets it.

 

Our strength is down the middle. Now that we have really good winger depth it just makes sense.

 

I saw one article that said minutes will be a problem but I don’t see that. You can play any line more minutes on any given night based on which line is going. It just keeps our guys more fresh.

 

exactly.

 

3 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

No one’s trading right D’s right now. If there was one available we probably would have made a trade by now.

 

Allvin needs to hold out for Schneider, Morrow, or Clarke. Wait for a team to get desperate (maybe after a slow start). We know Millers value, we’re not giving away our best player unless a top prospect is coming back.

i would settle for severson for now if we can have mukhamadullin for the future.

[Nucker 67]

26 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

thats what i want 3 equal scoring lines. JT, petey and BO.

Is Bo a 3rd liner? I can appreciate Bruce's enthusiasm, and he's probably right, that those 3 make VAN one of the best down the middle. 

 

Wingers - Boeser, Garland, Kuzmenko, Podkolzin, Mikheyev and Hoglander.  Good stuff.

 

They need to find a way to trade Pearson and Dickinson somehow. A bag of pucks will do. 

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

So basically what most folks expected if Miller were still to be around come camp. 

 

I understand the allure of having Pettersson, Horvat, and Miller down the middle for some but it doesn't seem realistic long term as all three will want top six ice time. I reckon it won't take long for someone to be shifted to the wing for that reason. Horvat is also miscast as a shutdown center and I'm still of the opinion that we need a legitimate 3C. Problem is those shutdown guys are very much in demand around the league.  

 

Guess we'll see what happens, but none of what's reported here should surprise anyone who's been paying attention. 

You don’t need a shutdown line when you have three centers like that though, that’s the whole point. Any one of those guys could go head to head with McDavid.

 

They’ll all get their minutes it will just be different guys getting more minutes each night. That’s the best way to keep a lineup fresh.

If they’re winning games cause they’re scoring and not getting worn down I doubt they’ll care if they play 16 minutes or 18 minutes. They’ll all get their special teams time too.

 

I honestly hope a trade doesn’t happen before the season. I wanna see what this roster can do as is. I have a feeling they’ll be a high scoring team that’s fun to watch.

[DeNiro]

5 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Is Bo a 3rd liner? I can appreciate Bruce's enthusiasm, and he's probably right, that those 3 make VAN one of the best down the middle. 

 

Wingers - Boeser, Garland, Kuzmenko, Podkolzin, Mikheyev and Hoglander.  Good stuff.

 

They need to find a way to trade Pearson and Dickinson somehow. A bag of pucks will do. 

People are too focused on line numbers.

 

Bo could be a “3rd liner” one night and a 1st liner the next.

 

I know Canucks fans aren’t used to having depth, but trust me it’s a good thing. 

[smithers joe]

3 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Is Bo a 3rd liner? I can appreciate Bruce's enthusiasm, and he's probably right, that those 3 make VAN one of the best down the middle. 

 

Wingers - Boeser, Garland, Kuzmenko, Podkolzin, Mikheyev and Hoglander.  Good stuff.

 

They need to find a way to trade Pearson and Dickinson somehow. A bag of pucks will do. 

forget about 1, 2, ans 3rd liners.  if BO has scoring with him on that line, then whatever line is going in any game plays more. no to 2 scoring lines and 2 checking lines.

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

You don’t need a shutdown line when you have three centers like that though, that’s the whole point. Any one of those guys could go head to head with McDavid.

 

They’ll all get their minutes it will just be different guys getting more minutes each night. That’s the best way to keep a lineup fresh.

If they’re winning games cause they’re scoring and not getting worn down I doubt they’ll care if they play 16 minutes or 18 minutes. They’ll all get their special teams time too.

 

I honestly hope a trade doesn’t happen before the season. I wanna see what this roster can do as is. I have a feeling they’ll be a high scoring team that’s fun to watch.

That's one way to look at it and I understand the argument, but that's not my personal take on team building. I prefer the idea of having a traditional shutdown 3C and a 4C who can take on some of that as well. 

 

But I'm also a fan of building from the net out and I don't like the idea of allocating that much money to forwards going forward. We're fine with Demko, I'd prioritize buffing up the defense. Defense wins championships more often than not. 

[JM_]

29 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Boudreau gets it.

 

Our strength is down the middle. Now that we have really good winger depth it just makes sense.

 

I saw one article that said minutes will be a problem but I don’t see that. You can play any line more minutes on any given night based on which line is going. It just keeps our guys more fresh.

 

I get the ice time argument, but rolling 3 lines with these C's with and using the 4th more sparingly is just fine. 

 

And as you say, it will change a bit from night to night, who's on special teams, etc. 

 

Nice to hear Bruce talk about this, hopefully it translates into a decent Miller extension. 

 

[DeNiro]

Just now, Coconuts said:

That's one way to look at it and I understand the argument, but that's not my personal take on team building. I prefer the idea of having a traditional shutdown 3C and a 4C who can take on some of that as well. 

 

But I'm also a fan of building from the net out and I don't like the idea of allocating that much money to forwards going forward. We're fine with Demko, I'd prioritize buffing up the defense. Defense wins championships more often than not. 

But that’s the thing. You are shutting down the other team when you have strong centers.

Playing in their end and creating offense is more effective than dump and chase and grinding them down. The fourth line can do that.

 

Teams usually have 3rd line centers like that because they don’t have the luxury of having three top centers like we do. It’s a big strength of ours that we need to take advantage of.

 

Of course we need to beef up the D, that’s well known. It’s gonna take patience though not forcing trades out of desperation. We’re likely gonna have to make a really crafty trade to get the player we need.

Buy low on a right D that ends up breaking out or take advantage of a team looking to dump a player (Ehrhoff style). We’re not getting a top one that’s already established though, they’re too expensive.

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

That's one way to look at it and I understand the argument, but that's not my personal take on team building. I prefer the idea of having a traditional shutdown 3C and a 4C who can take on some of that as well. 

 

But I'm also a fan of building from the net out and I don't like the idea of allocating that much money to forwards going forward. We're fine with Demko, I'd prioritize buffing up the defense. Defense wins championships more often than not. 

I think this is coming but its a 2 year project. We'll see what Rathbone is, and maybe thats the 3rd pair solution with Schenn. If OEL-Hughes is a thing thats a nice top pair.

 

Its the what to do with Myers thats the issue. 

 

Dermott-Myers?

or

DeHann-Myers?

 

[DeNiro]

Just now, JM_ said:

I think this is coming but its a 2 year project. We'll see what Rathbone is, and maybe thats the 3rd pair solution with Schenn. If OEL-Hughes is a thing thats a nice top pair.

 

Its the what to do with Myers thats the issue. 

 

Dermott-Myers?

or

DeHann-Myers?

 

Right now it’s just about having as many options as possible.

 

A top pair of Hughes-OEL is legit if it works.

 

Then it’s just about finding the right partner for Myers. That needs to be a pair that keeps it simple and can get the puck to the forwards. Nothing special.

 

Between Schenn, Poolman, Dermott, Rathbone, Burroughs, and possibly De Haan we should be able to find something that works. Again it doesn’t have to be special just not hurt us in our own end. That’s gonna have to be the solution until we can acquire or develop another strong two way player (hopefully Rathbone).

[stawns]

37 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Boudreau gets it.

 

Our strength is down the middle. Now that we have really good winger depth it just makes sense.

 

I saw one article that said minutes will be a problem but I don’t see that. You can play any line more minutes on any given night based on which line is going. It just keeps our guys more fresh.

 

I'm sure he's pretty happy with the lineup going into the season

 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

I'm sure he's pretty happy with the lineup going into the season

 

He’s probably drooling over his lineup.

 

Sure we have some big questions on D, but to look at that forward group and all the options he has has to be exciting for a coach that loves to push the pace offensively.

[Coconuts]

8 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

But that’s the thing. You are shutting down the other team when you have strong centers.

Playing in their end and creating offense is more effective than dump and chase and grinding them down. The fourth line can do that.

 

Teams usually have 3rd line centers like that because they don’t have the luxury of having three top centers like we do. It’s a big strength of ours that we need to take advantage of.

 

Of course we need to beef up the D, that’s well known. It’s gonna take patience though not forcing trades out of desperation. We’re likely gonna have to make a really crafty trade to get the player we need.

Buy low on a right D that ends up breaking out or take advantage of a team looking to dump a player (Ehrhoff style). We’re not getting a top one that’s already established though, they’re too expensive.

I understand your argument, it's just not my preference and I don't believe maintaining all three center's is sustainable financially long term. I said I don't like the idea of allocating so much cap to our forward group and I stand by that. Miller will get his big boy raise, Horvat will need one too, and if Pettersson plays to his capabilies he'll likely cost more than both of them. Factor in guys like Podz and Hoglander needing raises  if they have success going forward and there are more question marks. 

 

Cap will come off, but allocating so much to our top six will eat into what we can spend on D. Sure, the cap is expected to go up but you can't gamble on cap space you don't currently have imo. It's not up until it's up. 

 

It was never going to be a single season turnaround but I still think we'll likely end up moving a center. Hopefully sooner than later. D will take time, but you've gotta give to get, savvy trade or no, and our current strength is our forward group. 

 

Buy low is a good idea, but it's easier said than done as there are 31 other teams looking to also upgrade their teams. 

 

7 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I think this is coming but its a 2 year project. We'll see what Rathbone is, and maybe thats the 3rd pair solution with Schenn. If OEL-Hughes is a thing thats a nice top pair.

 

Its the what to do with Myers thats the issue. 

 

Dermott-Myers?

or

DeHann-Myers?

 

I think it'll be longer than two years but we'll see. 

 

Dunno what to do with Myers, him and Schenn are both placeholders imo. Maybe Dermott turns out to be a pleasant surprise though. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Coconuts

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Right now it’s just about having as many options as possible.

 

A top pair of Hughes-OEL is legit if it works.

 

Then it’s just about finding the right partner for Myers. That needs to be a pair that keeps it simple and can get the puck to the forwards. Nothing special.

 

Between Schenn, Poolman, Dermott, Rathbone, Burroughs, and possibly De Haan we should be able to find something that works. Again it doesn’t have to be special just not hurt us in our own end. That’s gonna have to be the solution until we can acquire or develop another strong two way player (hopefully Rathbone).

tbh I've factored Poolman out of the lineup. I have doubts he's going to be any kind of meaningful participant here. Hope I'm wrong tho. 

[Boudrias]

12 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

That's one way to look at it and I understand the argument, but that's not my personal take on team building. I prefer the idea of having a traditional shutdown 3C and a 4C who can take on some of that as well. 

 

But I'm also a fan of building from the net out and I don't like the idea of allocating that much money to forwards going forward. We're fine with Demko, I'd prioritize buffing up the defense. Defense wins championships more often than not. 

I am with you. Some nights offence cannot win a game and the d-side does. Championship teams have good shutdown crews. Look at how the Av's 4th line totally took over. 

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

I am with you. Some nights offence cannot win a game and the d-side does. Championship teams have good shutdown crews. Look at how the Av's 4th line totally took over. 

Avs also had a quality D group, Byram really stepped up. Not many teams would be able to weather losing a guy like Girard imo. We aren't comparable to the Avs, only place we've got them beat is in net. Even without Kadri I expect them to roll right over most teams. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Coconuts

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I understand your argument, it's just not my preference and I don't believe maintaining all three center's is sustainable financially long term. I said I don't like the idea of allocating so much cap to our forward group and I stand by that. Miller will get his big boy raise, Horvat will need one too, and if Pettersson plays to his capabilies he'll likely cost more than both of them. Factor in guys like Podz and Hoglander needing raises  if they have success going forward and there are more question marks. 

 

Cap will come off, but allocating so much to our top six will eat into what we can spend on D. Sure, the cap is expected to go up but you can't gamble on cap space you don't currently have imo. It's not up until it's up. 

 

It was never going to be a single season turnaround but I still think we'll likely end up moving a center. Hopefully sooner than later. D will take time, but you've gotta give to get, savvy trade or no, and our current strength is our forward group. 

 

Buy low is a good idea, but it's easier said than done as there are 31 other teams looking to also upgrade their teams. 

 

I think it'll be longer than two years but we'll see. 

 

Dunno what to do with Myers, him and Schenn are both placeholders imo. Maybe Dermott turns out to be a pleasant surprise though. 

I'm sure BB loves his lineup, but his jpb is to work with what he's given and of course he wants Miller. PA's job is different and he'll be making a tough move at some point, a move BB probably isn't going to.like

 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

I think it'll be longer than two years but we'll see. 

 

Dunno what to do with Myers, him and Schenn are both placeholders imo. Maybe Dermott turns out to be a pleasant surprise though. 

I really do think the timing depends on the chemistry with Hughes and OEL. If thats a legit thing, that would be awesome. The handedness part of it won't matter nearly as much since these guys are such strong puck movers. Maybe it comes back to bite us occasionally.

 

The key thing there too imo is we don't have to go and strain to find the perfect right handed guy for the top pair, now we're looking for 2nd and 3rd pair quality players which is a heck of a lot more realistic to find.

 

So yeah, a bit of over exuberant hope for the OEL-Hughes thing but we'll see. It should be apparent at camp if thats an option. 

 

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I understand your argument, it's just not my preference and I don't believe maintaining all three center's is sustainable financially long term. I said I don't like the idea of allocating so much cap to our forward group and I stand by that. Miller will get his big boy raise, Horvat will need one too, and if Pettersson plays to his capabilies he'll likely cost more than both of them. Factor in guys like Podz and Hoglander needing raises  if they have success going forward and there are more question marks. 

 

Cap will come off, but allocating so much to our top six will eat into what we can spend on D. Sure, the cap is expected to go up but you can't gamble on cap space you don't currently have imo. It's not up until it's up. 

 

It was never going to be a single season turnaround but I still think we'll likely end up moving a center. Hopefully sooner than later. D will take time, but you've gotta give to get, savvy trade or no, and our current strength is our forward group. 

 

Buy low is a good idea, but it's easier said than done as there are 31 other teams looking to also upgrade their teams. 

 

I think it'll be longer than two years but we'll see. 

 

Dunno what to do with Myers, him and Schenn are both placeholders imo. Maybe Dermott turns out to be a pleasant surprise though. 

Money towards centers is better money than money towards wingers though. Good centers are much harder to find.

 

Obviously if Millers camp is still pushing for 9+ million then it won’t work. But if we can get him signed for something more reasonable like 8-8.5 on a longer deal (6-7 years) then it’s a good thing IMO.

 

A deal for a defenseman could come from trading some winger depth too. Trading Garland and Pearson for example frees up around 7 million. Enough to fit in another legit top 4 while keeping our center depth. That gives us a stronger roster IMO.

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

I'm sure BB loves his lineup, but his jpb is to work with what he's given and of course he wants Miller. PA's job is different and he'll be making a tough move at some point, a move BB probably isn't going to.like

 

I don't really care what Boudreau likes or doesn't like tbh as I don't see him being here too long. I like Bruce, I advocated for his hiring before Green was fired, but I just don't see him being the coach that's behind the bench when our young guys are in the meat of their prime years. 

 

Just now, JM_ said:

I really do think the timing depends on the chemistry with Hughes and OEL. If thats a legit thing, that would be awesome. The handedness part of it won't matter nearly as much since these guys are such strong puck movers. Maybe it comes back to bite us occasionally.

 

The key thing there too imo is we don't have to go and strain to find the perfect right handed guy for the top pair, now we're looking for 2nd and 3rd pair quality players which is a heck of a lot more realistic to find.

 

So yeah, a bit of over exuberant hope for the OEL-Hughes thing but we'll see. It should be apparent at camp if thats an option. 

 

I think it could work, but even if it works it cuts both ways imo. We'd have a great first pairing but a questionable other 4-5 guys. We've got a lot of third pairing D.