HKSR Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: In the meantime, have you considered how long the Oilers' perpetual rebuild lasted, even though they had multiple #1 picks? Tearing down the roster to bare bones doesn't guarantee future success, plus IDK if our fanbase could survive another rebuild (the alternative to shipping off valuable vets to get those blue-chip picks is trading guys like Dickinson/ Myers, but those moves would require ample sweeteners). I'm with you there 100%. It's time to see what this core can do. Tearing it down would be asinine. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baratheon Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 53 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: So when exactly are they “going” for it? When Demko’s contract expires or when Hughes is a UFA and gets a call from his brothers to come play with them? I think they've also answered that question multiple times no? 2ish years is the stated goal for the beginning of a window. I don't think they intend to have a 1-2 year window of opportunity. Do you? Maybe you disagree with that approach. That isn't my point. My point is that I think they've repeated themselves enough times that we can take them at their word. They will be patient. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Just now, HKSR said: Not my point. My point is in 2 to 3 years, this team could be right up there. To conclude that in 2 to 3 years they'd be nowhere near the Avs is simply incorrect. disagree, even when the Avs were struggling, everyone considered them the next powerhouse team..........can you provide any similar talk about this Canucks team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 53 minutes ago, stawns said: You think this team is 2-3 years away from Avalanche/Lightning level? C'mon man Who says we have to be at their level to win a cup? You think the Avalanche will be as good as last year in 3 years? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Just now, stawns said: the Canucks don't have anyone close to Mackinnon and Makar and though they didn't win the Cup on their own, they were certainly the top contributors. They also didn't have a potential top 5 goaltender. Not every team is built exactly the same way. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Just now, stawns said: disagree, even when the Avs were struggling, everyone considered them the next powerhouse team..........can you provide any similar talk about this Canucks team? You gotta be kidding. You think when they were bottom feeders that people said they'd win a Cup? Makar wasn't in the picture then. So unless you felt that people rated Tyson Barrie that highly, you have no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Just now, stawns said: not even remotely. I am saying that spending upwards of $16-17m on two players is foolish because they are going to need cap space to support the young core of players who I think are going to be the core that emerges as contenders. Having cap space is all well and good if you spend it properly. Benning had plenty of cap space and spent 11 million on a 4th line… At least I can be confident we’ll get production out of Miller. Simply allocating his cap somewhere else doesn’t mean we’ll be better. Might just equal an inflated top 4 contract and an inflated third line contract. Either we’re overspending in free agency or trading assets we can’t afford to lose to improve. Either of those options come with risk as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Baratheon said: I think they've also answered that question multiple times no? 2ish years is the stated goal for the beginning of a window. I don't think they intend to have a 1-2 year window of opportunity. Do you? Maybe you disagree with that approach. That isn't my point. My point is that I think they've repeated themselves enough times that we can take them at their word. They will be patient. Intending to have a window of 5-7 years and actually having a window of 5-7 years are two different things. When was the last time the Canucks had a 5-7 year window to win a Cup? Like never maybe? Peolle act like the new management are our saviours and what they say is the gospel and it will all happen like God’s will. It doesn’t really work that way. JR has already changed his tune from 9 months ago. Who would have expected that both Miller and Horvat would still not be extended going into September? Do you think this is the scenario that JR planned out? Or maybe things happened and he just couldn’t get the deals done. And now he’s on plan B. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: Having cap space is all well and good if you spend it properly. Benning had plenty of cap space and spent 11 million on a 4th line… At least I can be confident we’ll get production out of Miller. Simply allocating his cap somewhere else doesn’t mean we’ll be better. Might just equal an inflated top 4 contract and an inflated third line contract. Either we’re overspending in free agency or trading assets we can’t afford to lose to improve. Either of those options come with risk as well. I think Benning had a pretty decent plan, injuries completely derailed it. You'll gte that production out of Miller in the short term, but long term he would be an anchor contract when they need felxibility to add to the young core. Moot point anyway, as I don't think he has any intention of staying in Van unless they grossly overpay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, stawns said: and you could argue they got there, in large part, by not spending huge money on an older player who didn't fit their timeline and would have siphoned off resources that allowed them to add to the emerging core of young players. By trading that player, they were also able to add to their depth. They overspent on Erik Johnson who was a big part of their culture and ultimately their cup win. Some people are looking past the leadership and culture Miller has brought to this team. Our other leaders are too quiet and easy going to lead the team all the way. They need more of the fire that Miller brings. The Avs also benefited from their top guys taking less. Rantanen is the only one that got market value. If Bo can take less and Petey doesn’t go crazy on his next deal we can be in a similar situation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: Intending to have a window of 5-7 years and actually having a window of 5-7 years are two different things. When was the last time the Canucks had a 5-7 year window to win a Cup? Like never maybe? Peolle act like the new management are our saviours and what they say is the gospel and it will all happen like God’s will. It doesn’t really work that way. JR has already changed his tune from 9 months ago. Who would have expected that both Miller and Horvat would still not be extended going into September? Do you think this is the scenario that JR planned out? Or maybe things happened and he just couldn’t get the deals done. And now he’s on plan B. the 2011 core started to emerge around 2007, but Gillis sold everything to make the one push and that window slammed shut. They should have had at least two more legitimate shots at the Cup, which would have put them right around 6-7 years to win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Just now, DeNiro said: They overspent on Erik Johnson who was a big part of their culture and ultimately their cup win. Some people are looking past the leadership and culture Miller has brought to this team. Our other leaders are too quiet and easy going to lead the team all the way. They need more of the fire that Miller brings. The Avs also benefited from their top guys taking less. Rantanen is the only one that got market value. If Bo can take less and Petey doesn’t go crazy on his next deal we can be in a similar situation. again, it's a moot point as Miller already has a foot out the door, imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, stawns said: disagree, even when the Avs were struggling, everyone considered them the next powerhouse team..........can you provide any similar talk about this Canucks team? So when the Avalanche finished dead last in 2017 you knew they were going to win a cup in 2022? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) Just now, Elias Pettersson said: So when the Avalanche finished dead last in 2017 you knew they were going to win a cup in 2022? TOTALLY! The next powerhouse from the bottom!! LMAO Edited August 31, 2022 by HKSR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, stawns said: I think Benning had a pretty decent plan, injuries completely derailed it. You'll gte that production out of Miller in the short term, but long term he would be an anchor contract when they need felxibility to add to the young core. Moot point anyway, as I don't think he has any intention of staying in Van unless they grossly overpay Benning had a horrible plan. It involved signing any overpriced UFA that was willing to come here each offseason. He had zero direction. His contract will eventually look bad yes. The only question is when and whether or not we contend before that. That’s the only thing management needs to ask. If we can win a cup with the cost of having 4 bad years of a Miller contract I think every fan would take that. That’s the gamble. Edited August 31, 2022 by DeNiro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: So when the Avalanche finished dead last in 2017 you knew they were going to win a cup in 2022? are you saying that people weren't talking about the Avs as the next powerhouse in 2016-17? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baratheon Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Intending to have a window of 5-7 years and actually having a window of 5-7 years are two different things. When was the last time the Canucks had a 5-7 year window to win a Cup? Like never maybe? As I said. You may disagree with their approach but that wasn't my point. My point is that they are steering the ship and have indicated which direction they intend to steer it. 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Peolle act like the new management are our saviours and what they say is the gospel and it will all happen like God’s will. It doesn’t really work that way. I don't recall saying that myself. I simply don't intend to gripe about them without giving them a chance. Certainly not less than a year in. 5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: JR has already changed his tune from 9 months ago. True! But one thing he has remained consistent on is his intention to be patient and not rush the team. The rest of the management team seems to be on the same page based on their public comments. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Benning had a horrible plan. It involved signing any overpriced UFA that was willing to come here each offseason. He had zero direction. His contract will eventually look bad yes. The only question is when and whether or not we contend before that. That’s the only think management needs to ask. If we can win a cup with the cost of having 4 bad years of a Miller contract I think every fan would take that. That’s the gamble. disagree, it just got derailed by injuries and he wasn't able to get it back on track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Just now, stawns said: disagree, it just got derailed by injuries and he wasn't able to get it back on track What injuries derailed his plan? Pretty sure his contracts were bad because they were bad, not because of injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 minute ago, stawns said: are you saying that people weren't talking about the Avs as the next powerhouse in 2016-17? Yeah, I think pretty much all of us are saying that lmao. What indication was there that they'd be a powerhouse? Nathan MacKinnon led the team in scoring. He was in his 4th year in the league as a 1st OA pick and had 53 points in 82 games. He looked like he was gonna be a run of the mill top 6 forward at the time. Their 2nd highest scorer was Matt Duchene. Hitting his prime and scoring 41 points in 77 games didn't scream POWERHOUSE to anybody in the hockey world hahaha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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