[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[aGENT]

26 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We have a three D in Bo.

Bo is not a 3C (I assume you meant C)

 

26 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Myers is playing great at 1 RD.

He's a mediocre 1RD, is expiring in 2 more years and will be 34. Who's playing there in our contention window?

 

26 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We have Hughes and OEL so our RD can be weaker players.  Look at how good Schenn looks with Hughes.  OEL does similar for Myers.

Sure. Schenn expires next year. What's your plan then?

 

26 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We have Bone coming for 3 LD

I'm skeptical "Bone" is a fit at 3LD behind Hughes and OEL. Where is he getting the offensive usage and PP minutes behind those guys to be successful and suit his skill set? Who's killing penalties?

 

26 minutes ago, Alflives said:

PK is about the goalie as much as the skaters.  

I think we have a very good team.  We should be looking at our group since BB took over.  The sample size is plenty big enough.

They've been playing well no doubt. And we have some good players. Not in question. That doesn't make this a contention roster though.

 

26 minutes ago, Alflives said:

 

I think the Rags have upped their offer to include both Lafreniere and Schneider, but PA and JR are saying no.  They would prefer to keep Miller.

If they'd made that offer, the trade is already done IMO.

[aGENT]

10 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Good points, but all depends when you’re proposing to trade Miller, no?

offseason is the best of both worlds, IF you’re going to do it, imho 

Depends on the offers IMO. If someone comes in with an overpay at the TDL, you have to take it IMO. 

 

That said, at this point, summer seems a lot more likely.

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, coryberg said:

You are wrong. You've been proven wrong and pretty much admitted it. Next summer is still next year no matter how you slice it. 

 

Now as far as calling me a bitch? Maybe we can meet for a beer and discuss that in detail.

[stawns]

15 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Good points, but all depends when you’re proposing to trade Miller, no?

offseason is the best of both worlds, IF you’re going to do it, imho 

if they are in a playoff spot, or within reasonable stiking distance they prettty much have to keep Miller and deal with him in the off season or next tdl even.  However, if they are out of a spot and don't deal him at this year's tdl, that's a hge, huge mistake

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

if they are in a playoff spot, or within reasonable stiking distance they prettty much have to keep Miller and deal with him in the off season or next tdl even.  However, if they are out of a spot and don't deal him at this year's tdl, that's a hge, huge mistake

Again, depends on the offers though.

 

If we're out of it at the TDL and the Rangers are only offering up something Kravstov, Barron and a first... They can &^@# off.

 

We can get that value (likely more) in the summer.

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Again, depends on the offers though.

 

If we're out of it at the TDL and the Rangers are only offering up something Kravstov, Barron and a first... They can &^@# off.

 

We can get that value (likely more) in the summer.

agreed, the right deal is, I think, implied at this point.  No one is wanting to dump Miller, it's max return only for this season.

[RWJC]

19 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Depends on the offers IMO. If someone comes in with an overpay at the TDL, you have to take it IMO. 

 

That said, at this point, summer seems a lot more likely.

Agreed. On the flip side of that though, I appreciate you being thorough and realistic about this roster, but how much of the “human” side of the game are you incorporating into your perspective?

 

This team finally has a winning culture, a successful coach and executive mgmt, have turned their fortunes around completely, and a new leader assumed the mantle as the face and identity of what this team is supposed to be. Something we’ve allllll been waiting on.

 

Do you really think, aside from it just being about business (cap+window) that this team can handle another exodus of such prominent pieces (eg. Tanev, Markstrom).  I don’t.

 

I worry about that fragility, hate to say that, and what it means to guys like EP and QH who are young and obvy want to win. I know it’s a business, but when you keep taking away core leadership and expect the team to grow, it really perpetuates struggle, and not just on the ice but in the room. Maybe in the head and heart too, regardless of how much we expect them to be professional.
 

It seems that the room is now sorted out with the players clearly following a real direction and leadership between Bruce, JTM and Bo.  
 

I think this new exec group is likely pleasantly surprised, and if Miller can be retained relatively affordably, I suspect what was inherited in this group will only be enhanced and not stripped.

 

D needs a revamp, no doubt.

Miller will fetch that absolutely, but so will a Garland or a Boeser. If we lose Motte, it sucks, but it’s time that we give a guy like Lockwood on a cheap contract a chance to se what he has.

Might be tough to iron out, but yeah moving a Myers, a Poolman, those deals really start to position us better under the cap. 
 

I think you have to approach and exhaust every alternative first before trading away a JTM at this point, given the last 5 years of this team and it’s current trajectory.

You have to.

 

because as soon as JTM is gone, this club starts over in a search for another leader with that kind of heart. Something very, very difficult to not only groom, but to trade for as well.

Edited March 12, 2022 by RWJC

[RWJC]

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

if they are in a playoff spot, or within reasonable stiking distance they prettty much have to keep Miller and deal with him in the off season or next tdl even.  However, if they are out of a spot and don't deal him at this year's tdl, that's a hge, huge mistake

There’s always the draft and offseason. Why would it be a huge, huge mistake to wait until then?

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, RWJC said:

There’s always the draft and offseason. Why would it be a huge, huge mistake to wait until then?

a huge mistake if they are not in a  realistic playoff race, let's make that clear. 

 

A huge mistake because his value will be much, much higher at this tdl than at the draft.  Anyone getting Miller at this tfl gets him for two playoff runs on a killer deal and that means even if they can't re-sign him, it's a still an acceptable risk for a contender.

 

If they're out of a playoff race and wait until the draft to move him, then whoever trades for him gets him for one shot, and that's it.  For a team unsure if they'll have the cap room (or desire) to re-sign MIller, then that juice probably isn't worth the squeeze and that will eliminate interested teams and lower the return they'd get for Miller.  Dpn't get me wrong, they'll still get a good package for him, but they have a chance at a franchise altering deal at this deadline if they are out fo the race, one that will chart the course of the next decade for this team.

 

So, yes, a huge mistake

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Agreed. On the flip side of that though, I appreciate you being thorough and realistic about this roster, but how much do the “human” side of the game are you incorporating into your perspective?

 

This team finally has a winning culture, a successful coach and executive mgmt, have turned their fortunes around completely, and a new leader assumed the mantle as the face and identity of what this team is supposed to be. Something we’ve allllll been waiting on.

 

Do you really think, aside from it just being about business (cap+window) that this team can handle another exodus of such prominent pieces (eg. Tanev, Markstrom).  I don’t.

 

I worry about that fragility, hate to say that, and what it means to guys like EP and QH who are young and obvy want to win. I know it’s a hushed, but when you keep taking away core leadership and expect the team to grow, it really perpetuates struggle, and not just on the ice but in the room. Maybe in the head and heart too, regardless of how much we expect them to be professional.
 

It seems that the room is now sorted out with the players clearly following a real direction and leadership between Bruce, JTM and Bo.  
 

I think this group has likely pleasantly surprised the new exec group, and if Miller can be retained relatively affordably, I suspect what was inherited in this group will only be enhanced and not stripped.

It's certainly a concern. I have to hope that if they do move Miller out, our new management has the wherewithal to bring in appropriate culture carriers to complement the ones remaining. And that some of the younger guys take up that mantle.

 

4 minutes ago, RWJC said:

D needs a revamp, no doubt.

Miller will fetch that absolutely, but so will a Garland or a Boeser. If we lose Motte, it sucks, but it’s time that we give a guy like Lockwood on a cheap contract a chance to se what he has.

They won't return the same quality of D IMO. And in all honestly, we might need that move ON TOP of Miller. Our right side really is meh and only gets worse after the next two seasons, with expiring contracts.

 

4 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Might be tough to iron out, but yeah moving a Myers, a Poolman, those deals really start to position us better under the cap. 

Assuming we get a young D back as per above, I'd happily move off 2 of Hamonic, Poolman and Myers.

 

Hamonic/Poolman especially, are one more middling bottom/mid pair, +/-$3m tweeners than needed. Quality over quantity.

 

4 minutes ago, RWJC said:

I think you have to approach and exhaust every alternative first before trading away a JTM at this point, given the last 5 years of this team and it’s current trajectory.

You have to.

 

because as soon as JTM is gone, this club starts over in a search for another leader with that kind of heart. Something very, very difficult to not only groom, but to trade for as well.

That's fair. I just don't see any realistic deal that makes sense for the Canucks and Miller. There's just too big of a gap.

[Junkyard Dog]

57 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Who is good, that he would want to play for, and has that room?  

Teams would make room if he fell to UFA if they didn't already. Akin to what Vegas did with Pietrangelo.

 

It wouldn't be a problem if he fell to UFA. He'd have more than enough suitors.

[RWJC]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

It's certainly a concern. I have to hope that if they do move Miller out, our new management has the wherewithal to bring in appropriate culture carriers to complement the ones remaining. And that some of the younger guys take up that mantle.

 

They won't return the same quality of D IMO. And in all honestly, we might need that move ON TOP of Miller. Our right side really is meh and only gets worse after the next two seasons, with expiring contracts.

 

Assuming we get a young D back as per above, I'd happily move off 2 of Hamonic, Poolman and Myers.

 

Hamonic/Poolman especially, are one more middling bottom/mid pair, +/-$3m tweeners than needed. Quality over quantity.

 

That's fair. I just don't see any realistic deal that makes sense for the Canucks and Miller. There's just too big of a gap.

Don’t forget Free Agency in terms of potential D options. Especially after next season. Again, that’s usually overpayment tho.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Teams would make room if he fell to UFA if they didn't already. Akin to what Vegas did with Pietrangelo.

 

It wouldn't be a problem if he fell to UFA. He'd have more than enough suitors.

I still think Nashville is a great for Miller.  They've got the assets for a deal and the cap room to re-sign him

[RWJC]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

a huge mistake if they are not in a  realistic playoff race, let's make that clear. 

 

A huge mistake because his value will be much, much higher at this tdl than at the draft.  Anyone getting Miller at this tfl gets him for two playoff runs on a killer deal and that means even if they can't re-sign him, it's a still an acceptable risk for a contender.

 

If they're out of a playoff race and wait until the draft to move him, then whoever trades for him gets him for one shot, and that's it.  For a team unsure if they'll have the cap room (or desire) to re-sign MIller, then that juice probably isn't worth the squeeze and that will eliminate interested teams and lower the return they'd get for Miller.  Dpn't get me wrong, they'll still get a good package for him, but they have a chance at a franchise altering deal at this deadline if they are out fo the race, one that will chart the course of the next decade for this team.

 

So, yes, a huge mistake

And of course, the incoming trade offer has to be up to snuff. That’s the 50% of this that you’re not factoring in when saying it’s a huge huge mistake. Takes two to tango if we’re gonna rebuild off JTM’s return in trade.

 

there’s also always the option, likely much more difficult tho, of signing him to a term contract (with a preferred team movement clause) and trading him out in the 1st or 2nd year of it if things go sideways next season. Much more difficult, yes, but still an out 

Edited March 12, 2022 by RWJC

[Junkyard Dog]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

a huge mistake if they are not in a  realistic playoff race, let's make that clear. 

 

A huge mistake because his value will be much, much higher at this tdl than at the draft.  Anyone getting Miller at this tfl gets him for two playoff runs on a killer deal and that means even if they can't re-sign him, it's a still an acceptable risk for a contender.

 

If they're out of a playoff race and wait until the draft to move him, then whoever trades for him gets him for one shot, and that's it.  For a team unsure if they'll have the cap room (or desire) to re-sign MIller, then that juice probably isn't worth the squeeze and that will eliminate interested teams and lower the return they'd get for Miller.  Dpn't get me wrong, they'll still get a good package for him, but they have a chance at a franchise altering deal at this deadline if they are out fo the race, one that will chart the course of the next decade for this team.

 

So, yes, a huge mistake

Depends. I think after the draft Miller can sign an extension so if teams are able to talk with him and work out a deal we'd still get a pretty killer return still, if we decided to move him.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, RWJC said:

And of course, the incoming trade offer has to be up to snuff. That’s the 50% of this that you’re not factoring in when saying it’s a huge huge mistake. Takes two to tango if we’re gonna rebuild off JTM’s rerturn in trade.

that's implied for the whole thread, as far as I'm concerned. No one here is interested in dumping JT Miller

[RWJC]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

that's implied for the whole thread, as far as I'm concerned. No one here is interested in dumping JT Miller

So is it then a huge mistake in signing him if no deal is presented that makes sense to trade him away?

[stawns]

Just now, Junkyard Dog said:

Depends. I think after the draft Miller can sign an extension so if teams are able to talk with him and work out a deal we'd still get a pretty killer return still, if we decided to move him.

it's possible, but I think an extension actually lowers his value even more.  If a team wants to take a chance with Miller for one season and one big shot at the Cup, they won't want to deal with a monster contract, which likely has a NMC.  On the other hand,that might be attractive for a team like Nashville.

[stawns]

Just now, RWJC said:

So is it then a huge mistake in signing him if no deal is presented that makes sense to trade him away?

I'm not following you here, but signing a 30 year old player to a massive cap hit over a massive ter is a terrible, terrible idea

[Me_]

3 hours ago, coryberg said:

Keep him until he walks next summer? No thanks.

Not everyone is selfish. However, the one who is, believes everyone else is one too.

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Me_