bishopshodan Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, -DLC- said: You saying it doesn't make it so. If it was that easy, sure. But people try to sell this narrative and we could just as easily flop by dealing our top producers who have been through a war together as a team. Attachment to this idea of "just do it and it'll all be rainbows and sunshine" is also very real. Remember, the other team really doesn't want you to hit a home run, they want to hit the home run. So this is just really dumbing it down and not, at all, "how it is". How people hope it is. another intangible that I dont like is...what does it say to a team when you trade a leader just because he is worth a lot on the market? Personally I would like to be a part of an org that rewards good production with an option of some stability. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 1 minute ago, -DLC- said: Let's go back to this part though.... when did I say it was going to happen for sure? I know what I absolutely think should happen, am I not allowed to express that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Why is Miller declining in his 30's? That's when the vast majority of NHL'er decline. The opposite are outliers. 19 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: He's a ppg centre with a lot of other intangibles. Who's argued otherwise? 19 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I would only call one of the 4 in the top 10 'generational' ...maybe Stamkos, maybe. I said elite as well. 19 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: And why can't we rebuild around QH, and EP? Would seem like a good two to retain and be leaders at that age. We shouldn't be rebuilding anything with them right in their peak/prime. THAT is what we should be putting all of our focus in to building around. Not starting to tear it down. 19 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: i'll give you one of these too..... for no real reason other than that I don't know why my opinions need cute emojis. If I have to explain the purpose of emojis... 13 minutes ago, -DLC- said: You saying it doesn't make it so. If it was that easy, sure. But people try to sell this narrative and we could just as easily flop by dealing our top producers who have been through a war together as a team. Attachment to this idea of "just do it and it'll all be rainbows and sunshine" is also very real. Remember, the other team really doesn't want you to hit a home run, they want to hit the home run. So this is just really dumbing it down and not, at all, "how it is". How people hope it is. There are no guarantees in sports. We could trade Miller for pieces that all bomb. Conversely, we could move off Boeser (who becomes a HOF'er in his prime, on another team) to afford MIller's $9m deal, only to watch him degrade to Player Name 2.0 in to his 30's (at 150% the cap hit, yay!). Edited January 23, 2022 by aGENT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, bishopshodan said: another intangible that I dont like is...what does it say to a team when you trade a leader just because he is worth a lot on the market? Personally I would like to be a part of an org that rewards good production with an option of some stability. again, you're assuming Miller wants to stay.........what if they keep him, they miss the playoffs this year and even next and then he doesn't want to stay in Van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: another intangible that I dont like is...what does it say to a team when you trade a leader just because he is worth a lot on the market? Personally I would like to be a part of an org that rewards good production with an option of some stability. that has been a yearly occurrence in the NHL for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Can anyone, for real, tell me this team, as it is, has the bones of the 2011 team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: another intangible that I dont like is...what does it say to a team when you trade a leader just because he is worth a lot on the market? Personally I would like to be a part of an org that rewards good production with an option of some stability. What if we're not trading him (at least solely) because he has trade value (he does)? What if we're moving him because Rutherford knows he wants to go to a contender/doesn't want to stay here/won't stay here for $ or tem that works for the Canucks/doesn't fit the core's contention window of 2-7 +/- years from now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, stawns said: again, you're assuming Miller wants to stay.........what if they keep him, they miss the playoffs this year and even next and then he doesn't want to stay in Van? That's a lot of "what if'ing". Which is what you do when you trade players...you consider that it's a big "what if" and not an automatic game changer home run. The grass is always greener with some in this fanbase. We're on a skid and playing horribly...."trade everyone/tank/start over/team's a flop" They start to turn things around under a new coach and people STILL want to build something new. How about we exercise some patience with a group because it DOES take time to get there? I feel this group could get on a tear and surprise a lot of people. I'm wanting them to try in the next 2-3 years....not to build toward it. Demko's hot...that's the number one thing to having success. But sure, let's wait until he might fall off. I'm over this conversation. I feel that some people think they could build a winning line up but I'm confident in those in place to actually do so. Whatever will be will be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 14 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: -i think Van is one of the best cities on the planet. But I dont personally know Miller. -I have no clue, but he's a massive part of a team with huge potential in the next few years. JT is a tried and true American, I'm betting he doesn't want to pay a lot of tax on the biggest contract of his career. He could take $7.5 in F;a and walk away with more in pocket than he could on a $9m deal in Van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: That's when the vast majority of NHL'er decline. The opposite are outliers. So Miller will ? Your team would never have 30= yr olds then, despite them showing no signs of slowing down. 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: Who's argued otherwise. When did I say it was argued otherwise? I was adding fodder to my reasoning for retaining a top 6 centre, were going to have to pay market value for a couple of them at some point. Very important positions. 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: I said elite as well. You said 'most' when referring to 4 in the top ten..... so thet would mean you though 3 of them were 'generational' And you don't have to explain emojis. Just thought you were nicer than putting a laughing and stunned emoji to my honest opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, stawns said: JT is a tried and true American, I'm betting he doesn't want to pay a lot of tax on the biggest contract of his career. He could take $7.5 in F;a and walk away with more in pocket than he could on a $9m deal in Van Thats a very good angle. You could be right. Has he expressed anything that leads you to believe this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, stawns said: that has been a yearly occurrence in the NHL for decades. Sure it has. I think we are sitting on the best core since 2011. Hope we dont do anything to F with our room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: What if we're not trading him (at least solely) because he has trade value (he does)? What if we're moving him because Rutherford knows he wants to go to a contender/doesn't want to stay here/won't stay here for $ or tem that works for the Canucks/doesn't fit the core's contention window of 2-7 +/- years from now? I have no answer. I dont know what JR is thinking. Lot's of guessing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 1 minute ago, -DLC- said: That's a lot of "what if'ing". Which is what you do when you trade players...you consider that it's a big "what if" and not an automatic game changer home run. The grass is always greener with some in this fanbase. We're on a skid and playing horribly...."trade everyone/tank/start over/team's a flop" They start to turn things around under a new coach and people STILL want to build something new. How about we exercise some patience with a group because it DOES take time to get there? I feel this group could get on a tear and surprise a lot of people. I'm wanting them to try in the next 2-3 years....not to build toward it. Demko's hot...that's the number one thing to having success. But sure, let's wait until he might fall off. I'm over this conversation. I feel that some people think they could build a winning line up but I'm confident in those in place to actually do so. Whatever will be will be. you know well enough I am not a fair weather fan and have been a cheerleader for this team through the last 7 years of misery. And that's exactly why a deal needs to be made at this deadline.........I don't want a one off run chance at a Cup with Miller here and declining, I want a team with depth and balance that can grow together and start the process of winning a cup in a couple of years. Moving Miller would be a huge step in that direction, if done right. There are teams out there contending in the next 2-3 years who have the cap space and good young prospects ready or almost ready to step up into big roles and JT Miller would be the big fish at the market come the end of March. It's as can't miss as you're ever going to get in Vancouver for the next 10 years when it's time to deal Petey/Hughes 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 38 minutes ago, stawns said: but you assume he;'s going to love Vancouver so gosh darned much he's going to stay for $7m. Those comparables lead me to believe otherwise. Then by 8m , your accounts.. make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Sure it has. I think we are sitting on the best core since 2011. Hope we dont do anything to F with our room. and that core is 22-26 years old and will be ready to compete, for real, in 2-3 years. Both JB and JR said the same 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 23 minutes ago, stawns said: you sign Miller to a $9m deal you better hope he can carry the franchise on his back well into his 30's because they'll have to sacrifice a lot of depth. do you see MIller wanting to stay in Van? What do you think he values in the next part of his career? Now it’s 9 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, SilentSam said: Then by 8m , your accounts.. make it happen. I think he'll get $9m, personally........especially if they move him and gets a Cup in the next 2 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 23 minutes ago, aGENT said: This is really it. I LOVE Miller, was one of the few people head over heels when we traded for him (for relative peanuts). He's a great player. This isn't an anti-Miller stance. We had a brief mini-window the last couple years to maybe make some playoff hay with him, and the young core on ELC/bridge deals and him on his bargain $5.25m deal. We got one decent playoff run during it. Great. Does he fit the next window, with the young core in it's prime 2-7 +/- years from now, on a new $3m bigger cap hit? Nope. It make sense to sell high on him, multiply assets and focus those assets on supporting that window. Either can I. We'd need him to take less money and term than he could get elswhere for it to make sense given the coming contention window. He'd have to be ok with us not being cup competitive for a couple more years vs going straight to a contender, He'd be staying in Canada instead of his home country and paying more taxes... That's a tough sell. Trading Boeser fits your criteria perfectly . You’d rather keep Boeser over Miller for 1or 2m extra? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, SilentSam said: Trading Boeser fits your criteria perfectly . You’d rather keep Boeser over Miller for 1or 2m extra? I would move them both at tbis deadline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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